Walter H

So much for me not watching reviews, but I am glad I found this which just seems a bit slower and more grounded. While there is a lot of similar ground covered from earlier reviews, things that stand out to me in this one are lots of great imagery and skin tone in a variety of lighting perhaps a slight over correction toward magenta? but no more of the greens that I am always pulling out of my S1 footage dynamic range gains are weighted toward the shadows and highlights need to be better protected when they are prioritized and fantastic color and noise stability when lifting shadows relative to prior S cameras (like shocking to me) don't use DRE with 8K for a sit-down interview.

And in some context - main take away from the video is that if you are focussed on a compelling subject, rolling shutter is not what people are paying attention to:

oops. post is now edited to include the link!

@hoodlum Thanks for posting this interview. The more I think on it, the more dubious I am of a next S1H having a DSLR form-factor. If the S5IIx is the current video-heavy spec'ed body, and to differentiate from that in a "move the chessboard kind of way" that everyone is crying for, you would need better cooling for unlimited 8K/60p and then internal 32-bit float, internal ND, faster read-out, and the like. I'm not sure that the DSLR form-factor is the way to go. It just seems that a true cinema-spec'ed camera would be so much more efficient in a C80/PYXIS/FX6/what-have-you body ala a bigger BS1H/UB50 with repositionable EVF. Finally time for the EVA2? Again, what do I know about the market and how Panny is thinking about the choices it will be making, but I'm having a hard time seeing the S1HII that would essentially be an S5IIIx in this current mirrorless body.

@PannySVHS@ita149 This guy has some footage to download in a range of codecs if you want to work with it a bit. I have and while there is not much, I am at least seeing there is no longer the need to pull greens out of the midtones, which is a standard proceedure for me with my S1 VLog footage. Curious what you see & think regarding the color smearing in skin tones. (Also appreciate that this might not be the best footage to evaluate that concern.) Edit: youtube video linked now! (sorry sorry)

Yes, right, I started with the "to the Z8" comparison and then transitioned (without much clarity) to the Panasonic 24mp sensor... Good point regarding the RAW files. I think what it really boils down to for me are the pros/cons of the Nikon stacked sensor (faster read-out speed facilitating better autofocus and less rolling shutter) vs Panasonic's approach (resulting in better shadow response both for noise and color fidelity) and I choose the latter, particularly since the S1's rolling shutter performance has never been a limiter in the work that I do and the S1Rii is not worse in 4k.

@John MatthewsThanks for that post. Obviously we need to think about any purchase in a "what's best for my use" context and since I was strongly considering either the Z6III or the Z8 (I also considered and rejected switching to Sony & Canon), the things that stand out that would most significantly aid my work are, potential to bring 32-bit float directly into camera (currently doing that externally with an F3 and syncing in post) False Color (fastest way to prioritize skin tone exposure) Live View Composite (event work, flash work, etc) really excellent IBIS (Richard Wong's comparison with the Z6III was shocking in this regard) better shadow noise performance than Nikon's stacked sensor as an H.265 shooter, I know VLog well and NLog seems compromised in this space don't need to change systems. The only functional benefit for me about the Nikons is the potentially better autofocus. Remains to be seen, however. The hitch for me has to do with shadow noise in stills (video seems excellent) but this is a 24mp vs 44mp sensor primarily and that higher resolution would be very helpful in my photographic work. Yes, I would really like to know the specs and timeline of the S1Hii but ... I do think the additional resolution is a higher priority for me.

@Andrew ReidLooking forward to your experiences and impressions of the footage.

Thanks for confirming this! It's been my impression from afar but without directing working with the files, I certainly didn't want to declare anything.

Interesting and a few things that still give me pause regarding the Nikon stacked sensors... From the linked Newsshooter article: "Because of the aggressive nature of the N-Log curve, it tends to crush the shadows down to try and limit the noise. The problem with this is that you don’t get a lot of information to work with in the shadows." "The other real-world issue with N-Log is that if you use View Assist it doesn’t in any way reflect what the N-Log LUT looks like. If you expose based on what looks correct on the LCD screen or EVF you will quickly find that your N-Log image is underexposed. The last thing you want to do when shooting N-Log is to underexpose because the N-Log curve certainly doesn’t give you much headroom in the shadows. Underexposing leads to severe image noise in the mids and shadows if you need to lift them up." (my emphasis added) I don't think I would describe the VLog coming from the S1 as "agressive" and my opportunity to push around shadows and midtones in post is - to my eye - pretty remarkable. If I was shooting in controlled environments, I wouldn't fret about it but recently I photographed and filmed a full day of moving cattle from from a penned area to outdoor pasture, which included a lot of time in the poorly lit barn/trailer with huge barn doors on a bright sunny day. 14 stops of range? 16? I was thanking the S1 for how little noise it introduces and how well it held highlights as I worked up the images. I have zero confidence in the Z6III in this scenerio even with it's recent firmware update. I think the only reasonable thing for me to do would be to rent a Z8 and use it for several days in the environments I usually work.

I would be very interested to read your experiences on this front specifically. Where it not for reading in various internet spaces about poor H.265 implimentation resulting in compression artifacts, I'd likely be swayed (and might overlook the lack of a mechanical shutter). I think everything else about the camera is stellar. But I'm consistently unclear if H.265 10-bit is 422 or 420. The manual says the latter but 422 is referenced online repeatedly (perhaps due to people making assumptions about 10-bit?). This is obviously mute if your intensions are to live in NRAW and ProRes-land. If so, I think this would be an incredible camera and a good if not the direction to go given your Lumix misgivings. It would be my next pick.

Yes, there absolutely are a lot of people who love those cameras. Even some of those people are pretty clear about their Nikon's dendency to focus just before the eye (i.e. on the eyelashes) when using Eye-autofocus. I've read that over and over. #murf Interested to read a more detailed evaluation from Chris Gampat about the autofocus's ability to find people of color in low-light situation.

Also, for those of us in the US, I just see that if you preorder the S1Rii from Adorama, not only is there the Sandisk memory offer, there is also an offer for one year (yes - subscription-based) of C1 for $50. If these are of value to you (and you will need the latest C1 for raw and tethering support), that makes the S1Rii effectively a $3k camera. This is a pretty crazy price at release that I would not have imaged.

We don't need another Z8; we need better than the Z8 and Slashcam's DR testing already shows that the S1Rii is just that. I took a long look at the Z8 and what turned me off from it was 1) no mechanical shutter option, and 2) not great H.265 implimentation - compression artifacts compared to it's ProRes and RAW options. This was a no-go for me as LOG in H.264/265 is where I live.

One note on batteries: this could be the first body since my XT3 that I would purchase a grip for to be able to shoot over an extended period.

That's how I read it, which is why I would treat this as a 4K/C4K camera. As others have mentioned, I wish they would have delivered a 6K camera with less RS and 4:2:2 rather than prioritize an 8K "benchmark". But they didn't. 1080p & 4K will continue to be a deliverable for my clients for some time to come and I do think this might be a very good 4K camera.

Rolling shutter will be a situational issue and I agree that more more footage I see, the less concerned I am than from the early reports. Yeah, the middle of the CVP review is disconcerting but this is a very tight crop of the subjects head in 6k open-gate and it really appears to be not significant in many other scenerios that align with how I shoot and what I need. @Jahleh Also agree - super heartening to see some really gorgeous footage. I've not watched everything but I was initially pretty put off by the 8k I saw from PetaPixel - seemed overly sharp with aliasing in the details. So much that I'm seeing now is so much nicer. I may wait until end of June or I might spring for it in early April depending upon the work I have coming up. A few days ago I covered (photo & video) two rallys over six hours at the State House in New York. Profoundly variable lighting, mixed lighting, terrible light quality and hundreds of people in a variety of locations. The S1 is still a champ but when I think about one switch to move from photo to video (vs a dial and two button presses), higher resolution with no lower light penalty, auto focus that I can point to an individual in a crowd and say "stay there" for the next thirty seconds, to be able to walk and have quite good stabilized footage.... I'm excited to not be fighting the camera to get the results, let's just say.

Same.

This is what will interest me the most going forward (and also why I skipped the S5II/x) and I won't be looking at any more reviews until the camera has been out in the world for a bit. We now know what the camera fundamentally is and can expect certain ranges of improvement via firmware over time. Some things such as rolling shutter values are locked in. It is what it is - a likely very good 4k camera with excellent high-res stills. (Was the ability accept timecode added via firmware later to the S1 or was it there at the beginning? I forget.) While I have also been frustrated with Panasonic's silence, etc. and we can go on and on about how late-to-the-party the S1RII (and Panasonic overall) is, none of that has much bearing to me in deciding whether this camera will keep me in the Panasonic fold or not. I can see the S1RII being my hybrid for events and other commissioned work and continuing with the S1 as my second 4k filmmaking body for the next number of years rather than jumping ship to some "big three holy grail" - all of which have loads of compromises in their own right. I look forward to hearing and learning from what users here will have to say about the image and other more tactile things.

@berkenboom As an S1 user, the reasons I would go this route (and very well might) rather than the better-valued S5II: 44mp (which you note) perhaps better autofocus and perhaps better stabilization finally a good implementation of switching between photo and video modes - huge of me finally Capture One tethering - significant for me On that last point, I doubt C1 tethering will be added to older cameras. I don't think this is a firmware issue so much as a Capture One/Panasonic issue and given the fairly vocal lobbying a bunch of us have pushed toward C1 over the years with no visible response other than "not enough demand", I rather expect that they will not look back at existing Panasonic bodies but might be willing to look forward here on out.

I may feel the same… But was there a post a few pages back that pointed toward RS impacting the head movement of a sitting subject? I’ve scrolled through the posts repeatedly and cannot find it again. Of course, if this was filmed in Open Gate or in 8k but isn’t an issue in 4k, I’m not too worried about it. All of these f-ing compromises. The HUGE fixes from me coming from the S1, correct amount of resolution (for me), proper fast switching between photo/video, exceptional IBIS, cropped and hybrid zoom modes, no low light compromise, and perhaps the Goldilocks size. The wait-n-see really has to do with AF performance, especially in lower light (think events) and particularly with darkly complected subjects. Bluntly, I’m done with autofocus that can only find and focus on white people in poor light. This alone might have me switching to Nikon. (Curious how the just released Z6 FW knocks down the NLOG shadow flicker.) The meh is also possibly the RS. I don’t shoot open gate but I can see its usefulness more and more and this camera is clearly incapable. Does it need to be a part of my priority package? Not sure yet. Will be an interesting six weeks for me to evaluate.

Considering that this was perhaps the reason I have opted not to shift to Nikon for my hybrid work (setting aside the expense of switching systems) in the past six months, I will be following how this plays out…

Was the S5ii footage you are referring to originally capture in LOG? Or other? Is this pointing toward the chroma sampling complaints others have made about the S5ii/S5iix footage? A "crunchiness" vs the "calmness" as you put it? I want to dintinquish between what you are calling "calmness" based upon over-sharpening or other factors. Any frame grabs from your footage displying the issue would be helpful. I've not have moire issues with my S1 and LOG footage before or after but I did purchase the Kolari filter after repeated portraits shoots with various issues in the stills.

Same. Surprised to see 422 so constrained.

Yeah, when I saw that image... sigh. I'm not an "S1 body or nothing" person but as many here have also noted, the build quality and ergos (despite the weight) of the original three have been amazing. I actively dislike the feel of the S5 in hand. I do think the S5ii/x feels incrimentally better in the hand and I'm interested if the additional proportions of the body "gets it right" or something. The loss of the top LCD is a bummer but not as critical to me as... The mechanical shutter. Again, I think the S5ii/x is marginally better damped than the hollow klatch of the S5. Let's see.