peederj

  False. The 4K video is recorded in MJPEG on the 1DC. The 1080p video is recorded in H.264.   http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/cinema_eos_cameras/eos_1d_c

  No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.   I'll believe it when I see it.

You will cook me dinner then when I win the bet on Mac Pro cost. ;-)

Quantity is a definitely sure path to quality, or at least to the attainment of potential (if you are a hopeless case, no amount of quantity will help you). Speeding up your cycle time from concept thru feedback is a very good idea, and for that goal, gear is overrated. The IQ one needs to focus on developing may be Image Quality for a DP type but for a "filmmaker" it's the other IQ. And hindsight has the best image quality of all.

The only 4K DSLR is the 1DC. The Blackmagic 4K Camera (which apparently will appear in 2014, not 2013) is not a DSLR. I don't think DSLRs are particularly good for video, the 5D2 was exciting just because it did 135 1080p with interchangeable lenses so much cheaper than anything else. Plus dual-use for stills. The $400 GoPro Hero3 Black does 4K at 12fps, I'm assuming you're interested in at least 24fps to qualify. I'd say 2015 for a camera that makes you happy for $2K although there will be crude prototypes appearing in 2014 that some people will "use."   4K ecosystems require a lot of storage and processing bandwidth so the cost of the camera body is going to be proportional to all of that...it's always been a bit hilarious to see the BMD beauty shots of their cheap crummy cameras adapted into $40K rigs with Angenieux zooms and matte boxes etc. Realistically the components of a production workflow are budgeted rationally and for 4K that's not just RED but e.g. F55, C500, etc. By 2015 enough of this will be affordable to make it practical for the hobbyist to shoot and cut at that resolution.   But another thing to keep in mind is how much additional pressure 4K will place on your subject matter. 1080p put enormous strain on talent, MUAs, set dressers, gaffers etc. to cope with how visible all the flaws became. 4K multiplies that problem fourfold. So be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. People might find themselves shooting at 4K only to decide to blur and grain it up to 16mm/720p resolution because everything clearer "looks like video"...the same reason 24p is preferred to 60p when making art. 1080p done well is a pretty happy medium and available RTS for under $10K today.

Again I'm a huge fan of universal empowerment and a huge critic of price gouging, profiteering and crippleware. I'm also a big fan of truth and fairness and I personally don't think Apple is the evil company that needs to be overthrown. The new Mac Pro is going to be awesome for our 4K needs over the next 5 years and if you play in that sandbox it will be an excellent value (compare its cost to the cost of a credible 4K camera after all). Apple also has the 27" iMac core 7 which is an awesome machine for 1080p video work including a great screen, and then the Mini and laptops for cheap solutions that just work out of the box.   If you like to tinker, I see nothing wrong with building a PC, but I don't think it's fair to insist that that is a better strategy and justified because Apple is an evil money grubbing empire. It's just another strategy and good for those who are still at the stage where their pride comes more from their tools than their output. I think making less of a big deal about the tools and just focusing on the work done with them is going to get people where they want to be fastest, and while I'm a technophile certainly I don't go overboard with hacks and kludges and seeing if I can squeeze the last cent of savings. My batting average with such "great idears" isn't zero but it's usually not high enough to justify the time wasted.   Anyway when the new Mac Pro launches and we are able to buy the parts retail, I challenge tomekk to assemble the _exact same_ machine spec as hackintosh for less cost, even pricing assembly labor at 0. You won't. I can also say that it's impossible to match the quality of restaurant food cooking at home yourself for the same price. Believe it or not...economies of scale are so profound, and assembly labor so inexpensive, that you can't beat it DIY retail on commodity goods and even common artisanal goods. This is why applied creativity, making unique things, is our best hope of making a decent living.

  The key term in my post was the launch price of the Mac Pro, not the current price. On launch the Mac Pro is cheaper than any comparable homebrew hackintosh can be made at the same spec. After six months or so the price of the separate Xeons goes down yet the Mac Pro's price stays the same.   So the key to victory in life is getting a new Mac Pro as soon as it is first delivered and then you get the cheapest machine for the spec you can get, anywhere, anyhow. This inconvenient truth is really hard to get through to the hackintoshers...they will somehow find a way to deny it. Watch.   And since it was you who tomekk that leveled the crippleware charge, I am waiting for your description of how Apple does crippleware. So far all I've heard is one poster said they can delete an app off your phone...that's a security feature, what if the app was malicious? That is not crippleware, where they are withholding functionality arbitrarily as a market segmentation and pricing strategy. I have no examples of Apple doing that in recent memory. Even the hackintosh is something they are turning a blind eye to...they don't let other vendors sell machines directly with their OS installed, but that's not crippleware, that's just their deciding their OS belongs to their hardware and no one else's...just like your favorite camera company's firmware isn't shared with other camera companies.   Anyway if you can't afford a new Mac Pro that's OK your workflow will take a little longer but you can make just as good a film. Lots of secondhand cheesegrater Mac Pros will be coming available at the end of the year with nice nVidia cards etc. that are serving pro's right now.

What is so special about internal hard drives? 6Gbps SATA can't saturate 20Gbps T2. You need external RAID for 4K work anyway you slice it...and telling people to somehow squeeze it into a specific form factor buys you nothing but a bigger carbuncle on your carpet. External storage can be easily network accessible and replaceable, works instantly when switching machines for a render tank, can have any number of 3rd party competitors on a level playing field...I can't believe people would complain about that other than as vain justification for their own inability to buy one.   As for cost, if you look at the history of Mac Pro's...and I know hackintoshers will REALLY hate this point, but it's true...Apple buys Xeons and GPUs in such quantity that you can't match the launch price of a Mac Pro for the same spec no matter how much labor you're willing to take on to yourself. You can't. The Xeons alone cost you nearly the price of the whole Mac Pro. I predict the prices of this cylinder will be the same as the current Mac Pro prices but at least double the performance similarly configured, and it will be at least six months before some crude crummy hackintosh can be assembled to the same spec for less. This is how it's been since the first Intel Mac Pro's shipped and I doubt it's going to change.   And finally, as for crippleware, it's clear that Canon does engage in crippleware, Avid does, and nVidia also engages in crippleware, but Apple? There's only one edition of the OSes, they EOL support for older machines after a few years, and that's more or less justifiable. There are no arbitrary restrictions on running apps on any Mac model, they will all attempt to run whatever they can with no arbitrary impediments...FCPX needs a modern GPU, but can we really complain about that? I was able to buy a workable GPU for my Mac Pro 1,1 to keep running it cheaply. iOS is a curated platform, but Apple has more or less looked the other way on jailbreaks, and many of its restrictions are actually phone company restrictions Apple had to accede to. The MacOS is anything goes still. You can run Windows on the machines if you wish.   Where is the crippleware? Trust me I HATE crippleware. Apple doesn't do it. They cut out legacy crap like Firewire and optical drives but offer cheap enough adapters if you need them. Hate them for that?   I just hope the color on the Apple 4K Cinema Displays is great. The color on the iPads is great so I would think someone there gets it.

It's hip to hate #1, whoever they are. So we hate Canon, and Apple, and Philip Bloom. But usually they got to #1 on at least some merit. Merit we can often learn from. And economies of scale provide them profound advantages over the other contestants. Advantages to us that can more than make up for any peccadilloes that we might be persnickety about.   Go ahead and hate #1. You will be my enduring Internet hero.  :rolleyes:

  No. That is a PCIe slot (with virtually no length allowed for the card...only one slot is pictured right now but more could be added by Apple at some point) hooking up the flash drive and industry standard DDR3 slots for the RAM. Apple itself has to buy commodity parts for economies of scale, especially with a niche machine like this.

Well one way to upgrade the CPU via T2 would be...getting another Mac Pro! You can have as many of them as you want as render/transcode tanks, we don't know the price yet but it will probably be around the typical $3000 point, and that will be an awesome value given what a comparable system would cost today. Just because it isn't a single-chassis solution doesn't mean it's worse in any way overall. I imagine Apple will want pro's to have two or three of these humming away behind their displays and the grid and NAS support will be a lot better and easier than it is now.

The emphasis will be on crunch migrating out to those 7 teraflops dual GPU's rather than the CPU. This will work very well for rendered DSP like photo/video though less well for realtime DSP like audio. But audio is generally not compute-intensive enough to challenge even a single modern multicore CPU. What else do you need crunch for, and how much more would you pay for it?   If you need more than this, an outboard hardware accelerator is an option (some of them run via gigabit Ethernet now) but who does in practice? By the time 6x T2s driving 3x 4K displays and more looks shabby you will be in line to upgrade the whole machine, which will be cheaper because it's smaller and modular and built on open standards.   This certainly isn't the weapon that will win yesterday's war.  :)

Grant Petty on Resolve 10:   http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8898#p56608  

Certainly breaking the NVidia monopoly will be good for all of us.   One thing to note is the difference between GBps and Gbps, conveniently confusing for the benefit of marketing. A Byte is 8 bits. So even if you have a PCIe expansion chassis linked with not one but four Thunderbolt 2 cables to the Mac Pro, you still only get 10GBps which is 1/4 what the 3rd gen PCIe bus can do internally (40GBps). Still that will be a very fast configuration, I doubt there is any limit on duplexing or quadruplexing T2 connections if the drivers are written accordingly.   Cue sad cases who compain about the lack of firewire. People, that's a $30 adapter. Geddovahit.   The internal PCIe slots for the thinline cards may offer some interesting expansion options at some point, though they aren't heat-sinked. You would only need one for the boot drive, all bulk storage would be external RAID, and SATA is currently just 6Gbps and not threatening to make T2 the bottleneck anytime soon. Few people ever upgraded the CPUs of Mac Pro's anyway, better to upgrade the whole machine at once to take advantage of better bus speeds etc. 3x 4K screens should be an immersive enough wall of pixels for anyone in the near future (a seamless wraparound cyc would be a nice touch, finally). Mix and match your peripherals based on external open standards is an improvement to having a massive and noisy cheesegrater that you have to struggle to upgrade even if many of those upgrades fit in the chassis.   I think the critics of this coffeemaker Mac just want to be contrarian and heroic in their use of hackintoshes that they build themselves. I will be very happy with this replacing my old cheesegrater. I think Resolve, RED, Adobe, etc. will conform to this new standard pretty quickly because it's far sexier than anything they've ever done. I think expansion chassis workarounds will appear fairly quickly too because there's a lot of money for e.g. Magma that they might never get to see again once the transition away from internal cards is done for good.

  It's leaked out on Twitter. As I mentioned Brawley himself made statements consistent with that conclusion ("look to their past history of product releases") without out and giving a release date (none of them actually know yet...the 4K camera doesn't work yet as we can see from the lack of sample images).   Anyway Andrew the reason you were denied an MFT camera is you are too honest for BMD's sneaky marketing machinations. You'd out and say the thing sucks, as you have done several times with countless other cameras, and that's the main reason I respect you.   ML 5D3 RAW is proceeding apace and they have 1088p25 and even higher resolutions working smoothly now even on cheap Komputerbays in the field.

The punch in the face at 1:10 is the best shot. The guy dodging the bullet is kinda cool too. The rest standard.

You can't get all of it out at 1600 up. You can blur it well with Neat. Turn Very Low Frequency on, because it's a very low frequency noise. But even that's not low enough to fully remove it.   Some people recommend shooting with higher saturation than we might normally do and then desaturating as that will knock down the blue a bit. Along those lines, you might try a white balance that accentuates the blues, but generally you will be shooting low color temp at high ISO so usually not much margin for lower Kelvins there.

The word is the 4K cam will ship in quantity next year at the earliest. John Brawley tweeted it's a new sensor (not to mention resolution) and so it will take a long time to work out. Shades of RED in its early days I suppose.    Given no 4K cam anytime soon I'm done with BMD for the foreseeable. I'm glad I never sat in preorder hell all last year and I'm certainly not gonna go there this year.

  The amount of moire won't depend much on the codec as it's not the codec that's creating the moire. The moire/aliasing/false color artifacts are created by the sensor and have to do with the specific alignment of the lines being shot vs. the grid of the sensor photosites. In an A/B comparison if that alignment is altered at all...simply changing the camera settings can do so...the moire amount will be altered too. The codec might exaggerate or suppress moire by reducing resolution in a biased manner but ProRes HQ is capable of carrying an awful lot of detail without much bias. One typical approach to resolving this for bayer pattern sensors is having an oversampling sensor with an OLPF, which the original BMCC and the pocket variety do not have.   I don't see much difference in moire in those test shots, it's the converging lines image that I care about (the verticals/horizontals are too sensitive to exact alignment to rely on, although they can show how bad things can get) and we don't have straight-from-camera downloads to judge (Why not Andrew? When you do A/B comparisons please give us all the relevant camera settings for reproducibility and straight-from-camera files to download so we actually have something concrete to discuss. Thanks.) so I don't know whether the post-processing on the RAW is changing how apparent the effect is (a color chart like an X-rite passport would be nice to include within the frame when we are evaluating color differences). Purple fringing is a lens artifact and not related to moire, but it can be exaggerated or suppressed by post-processing too.   If we wish to present something as scientific evidence of fact then we have to produce it scientifically. I know it's more work and not suave or debonair but it's worth it. Right now I'm not ready to confirm ProRes (Which bitrate of ProRes are we talking about? Also not included in the article. Or even the BMCC "Tech Specs" page. So much for specs.) "makes moire worse." Downsampling can make moire worse, but I consider that a bit different than a codec, even though some codecs will e.g. chroma subsample and that can have an effect.

We already know the quality of the Pocket Cam's sensor...it's a moire-ridden, lower-res 1:1 crop of the original cam's sensor. What we don't know about the pocket cam is how many bugs will be in the first implementation of BMD's MFT support...so one thing you might do is visit a shop/rental house with your pocket cam and try each MFT lens and see and list which won't focus/iris/is properly. I'm confident once all is said and done the BMD pocket will offer better color and DR than the GH2/GH3 but far worse ergonomics, lens support, moire, stills, real (as opposed to simulated via aliasing) sharpness/resolution, and total cost of ownership. Anyway they're just starting out making cameras.    The 4K cam is what's interesting from them...S35, 4K ProRes, EF glass...we already know the ergonomics will be terrible and lens support still iffy but just how awful is that sensor to get it this cheap? The only competitors to it for that res under $25K TCO are 1DC and Scarlet, the former a bit of a kludge and the latter quite long in the tooth at this point.   Regardless Andrew, I hope BMD doesn't "help you with their coverage" as I think you're one of the only bloggers willing to straight up criticize a mfr and their products, and that's invaluable. Even if you aren't perfectly fair and even in your critiques I think online camera reviewing would lose a lot if you got corrupted into "being a team player."

Our Leader on Twitter:     Andrew Reid @EOSHD Just to be clear still a huge Blackmagic supporter and love what they are doing. Just need cameras I can use today that's all   27m Andrew Reid @EOSHD M43rd's BMCC delays simply unacceptable for me. With 5D MarK III raw video I have the image quality I need for now   29m Andrew Reid @EOSHD Considering cancelling all 3 of my open Blackmagic camera pre-orders. If Blackmagic still need EOSHD coverage, I'm happy to beta test

  Yes it's called the C500, and also offers HFR 4K RAW. Total RTS package costs a bit more than the FS700 also with a RAW external recorder but offers better low-light/build/ergonomics. Costs less than similarly equipped F5 at similar build quality and ergonomics. Yet everyone repeat after me, "C500 is overpriced!" "C500 is overpriced!"   :rolleyes:   (Oh and bloggers, studiously make sure you NEVER mention external recorders in a camera review! Doing so completely emasculates your argument. If you ever even THINK of mentioning external recorders, instantly dismiss them as a "PITA" so your readers won't get distracted.)

The "scouts" are people who have carefully tested the sensor being used. The sensor performance will establish the upper bounds of what the camera can produce.       We'll see! I hope for scientifically valid, reproducible DR tests, including the use of the best gammas available. The original BMC vs. 5D3 comparison video made strong arguments about DR based on the factory picture style but carefully forgot to mention Cinestyle is a free download for the 5D3. No one should tolerate that degree of intellectual dishonesty, it's conniving and nearly fraudulent. Admit it.   Now we have RAW video on the 5D3 (after a fashion), which should give the full DR (depending on how the internal downsampling for that RGGB buffered image was done...not as well as for the C-series clearly), but the 5D3 RAW converters available now aren't designed for cinema applications, so all sorts of judgments are being thrown about cluelessly re: saturation etc.   Very few people defend Canon online. Very many people use Canon. Well-calibrated BS detectors may be more common in the field than marketing dept's and their dutiful fanboys hope.   I hope BMD designs a camera really worth buying and using for next year's NAB. If it's still ahead on any relevant spec at that point. For now BMD is a nice feel-good story about a little company trying as hard as it can against the entrenched powers. But I'd personally rather shoot a feel-good story than shoot with one.

Thank you Andrew for testing and confirming the KineRAW jello is ~25% worse than the 5D3 RAW.   And thanks to the advance scouts who gave us the skinny early countering the usual hypesters. Keep it real.   The advance scouts claim the real DR of the global shutter BMC4K is poor, so that may be the next hypewave to dispel. BMD are carefully withholding any evidence so far. At least we know the ergonomics will suck.   Still no ideal camera mid-2013, but lots of near-misses. Someone put it all together for us!

Can you turn on hyperthreading and get 24 cores? Is that faster?