Astro

Lurking the forum for ages...and used the GH4 for ages, but haven't commented for quite some time. But I cant resist the urge to comment here...I downloaded all the files and looked at them. Honestly...especially the colors are just crazy good The Wall and The Field AF tests...perfect!!...color wise!! I would love to see those tests without the AF, just nice smooth focus and filming. Panasonic seem to have nailed it, the color depth is great, perfect balance of reality with a touch of saturation and pop to my eyes, Canon gets that too, but for me sometimes the Canon colors move into overdone territory and lose that fine balance. Thats a personal observation tho, others opinions obviously differ. Anyway its very clear that you can get amazing results with this camera without a heap of extras. Motion cadence is another thing that I also have issues with, its something that has always bothered me more than the usual complaints about low light, dynamic range, DOF and almost anything else. The All I does look promising, but I would love to see more shots to see how this looks overall, the Greyhound shots were too fast to really tell, the Dog Spike tho...Stunning in so many ways! But overall...just frikkin GREAT!! I am definitely getting one soon...thanks Andrew, and so glad that Panasonic got you the firmware early, as one of the pioneers of the GH series, they did the right thing, because your reviews are always very comprehensive, excellent review, cant wait for Pt2.

Long time GH4 user here...I was GH5 hesitant at first...BUT I Gotta say, I have recently seen a few GH5 vids on vimeo and youtube that have blown me away. The GH5 Welder video for example the colors are just great, some of the best I have seen...many people in the comments too have stated that they cant believe this was done on a GH5, to me they are very Alexa like. Another I saw recently, just a sunset, no special postwork or anything, but I swear tho the colors ...I could never get those out of the GH4,and I am pretty proficient in Premiere and using Lumetri. There is something about the colors that is really special, not too over the top, but far more dimension than the GH4, and I have seen some pretty decent skin tones too. All in all this camera seems to be able to do me for several years,Just need to sell a few things, I cant wait to get one.

I know who Breidbart is, I know who Steve Bannon is, I know who Robert Mercer is ...I am not going to argue about this or that person. I will say perhaps you may like to read what really happened in Libya, Hillarys war (everyone agrees on this on both sides of the fence) Read about Libya under Gadaffi...what the laws where etc...its out there and confirmed on many blogs (cant really lie about this stuff) The what happened after Hillary intervened...Point being she has a lot of blood of innocents on her hands, I seriously doubt wether Bannon, Trump or Mercer could even get close to her on this score. Perhaps also read the summary of the first 4 chapters of the TPP (the one Hillary wants to fast track thru) Wikileaks has that info. Also maybe the open borders that Hillary is planning in the US may somehow have a different outcome than Europe...but I seriously doubt it. Then there is George Soros...interesting to read his history too...an actual genuine Nazi war criminal at 14, and one of Hillarys biggest donors and friends, I am sure he is looking out for all the US's best interests...not!!

@Flynn Jeez I have to agree with you. Just impartially reading this thread ...and FilmMan...sounds like he has a bit of humor about things, but Damphouse and TigerBengal are more or less rolling out the insults and sound hateful and a bit unhinged ...capsLock paragraphs etc...calling Trump "Führer" etc...All right for some tho I guess. Funny thing that Hillary just stated that she will destroy any conservative website that puts forward views that she doesn't approve of.. Her direct quote "They dont have a right to exist" does that make her a "Facist" I wonder? I guess not (according to some)... But if Trump had said it...it would be "HILTLER", "NAZI", Führer, Clown ETC... makes you wonder. Cheers

I have already seen footage from the GX85 that I like, (there is a new link on Personal Views that is very smooth and filmic looking, also have a look at Paul Leemings reel GH4 and Red Epic...some really nice stuff there (I just dont agree all Panny Mirrorless have a non filmic look...I have seen too many exceptions to that statement), having said that there are some GX85 clips online that I don't like (for the same reasons you don't. But Softness and filmic is a combination of the lens and the shooters skill, plus you can wind out the in cam sharpening in the GH4 and I assume the GX85. So there is a ton of control, its really up to the shooter.

Yep I have used the Gh4 for a long time...while everyone else was obsessing about noise in the shadows, dynamic range, low light etc.. I was obsessing about the jitter or strobe when you panned the camera, it kind of drove me nuts for a while...it was my single biggest beef with the GH4...so I did countless tests. Heres what I found, its at its worst in 4K at 24P or 25P (especially in high contrast scenes) ...medium pans are the worst, slow pans can be acceptable, fast pans also can be OK. Its not there in the higher frame rates at 1080P 30/ 50/ 60 It improves greatly at 30 frames PS in 4K, it improves a lot!! (thats your best bet in 4K I found) Low contrast scenes are also much better too Turning on or off OIS in a lens makes little or no difference from what I saw.... It seems to be less on a 4K screen at 60hz than a 1080P or 1440 screen at the same 60hz refresh rate, I cant say that's totally the case tho..I have only done a few tests. I have seen it other cameras without GS, especially in 4K. The GX85 has it just as bad as the GH4 in this area, but the image stabilization is a huge plus, for that reason I am thinking of getting one. I havre gotten used to it now, and I know what and what not to do...when in doubt, if you are just uploading to the web, use 29.97 (30P) Cheers Hope this helps

I love the look of some of the footage I have seen from this camera, just the colors seem to have extra pop and some extra detail than the GH4 has.No AA filter maybe? I have had the GH4 for a long time now (I still really love it) I always felt the whole noise...low light thing about the GH4 had been really overblown IMO If you use it right, with a fast lens. its not an issue at all. BUT somehow the GX85 has something in the image that seems to be a step up...poses a problem...GX85 or wait for GH5?...GX85 or wait for GH5?...Jeez I dont know.

Yep I've done countless tests with the VLog, and most of the conclusions of Aaron Chicago and others are pretty much spot on. What I found was if you shoot in very good light, either outside or inside with decent video lights and overexpose with zebras set at 65 and 80 approx, then the noise especially and also the magenta blocking wont be a problem really and it does produce some wonderful images, best I've seen from the GH4 in many cases, but its definitely a double edged sword. As its been said by others if you shoot where there are a lot of midtones and softer shadows in mid light, you will see the magenta blocking all over the place, grey or light brown walls with shadows on them are an absolute delight (being sarcastic here) magenta blocking on them pretty much everywhere. Plus some are saying its the varicam LUT that is the problem, this is only partly true at best, you can see this problem in the original VLog file, I have done a ton of A/B's and its there in the original untreated 8 bit file as well, but its less noticeable, now other LUTS may bring it out less, thats probably true, but they wont get rid of it cause its there in the original 8 bit file....end of story, and anyone that does some serious tests will see this immediately. Now 10 bit with other LUTS may be enough improvement to overcome or mask the problem enough...I dont know. But to me it appears that LPowells analysis based on Barry Greens statements are spot on, its not what everyone likes to hear, but I feel LPowells conclusions were exactly right, and it appears that even after 6 months of testing Panansonic have released a very flawed version of VLog, and paying customers (I havent bought mine yet) are entitled to feel very pissed off, they should not have used the varicam mapped version with the 79 IRE high end rolloff, they should have mapped a GH4 version from scratch. God knows they had enough time to do it (...and Yes I know what software writing involves, I develop 3d worlds and call up scripts from scratch...I know how complex it can get) But whats even more amazing is not a single Beta tester appears to have mentioned this publicly, its totally unbelievable, some of the people that have tested this Log profile know a lot, have a lot of experience under their belt, and the very fact they did not notice or point this out on forums beggars belief. As far as filming goes I am a lowly hobbiest...but with a solid background in 3d design and also professional mural art and I saw it almost immediately...if I was a tester I would have been hounding Panasonic, its an 8 bit dogs turd in a lot of situations, fix it or dont release it!!! whats going on? Panasonic have really blundered badly on this and its not going to do them any good, face it...its a half developed product that they had tons of time to get right, and either the beta testers did not do their job...or Panasonic totally ignored them. Some already have the release version and they say its exactly the same and gives the same result, so probably best to not expect any miracles there. Some have even said the unreleased image app blundered version is not the real version, its an earlier beta, that also beggars belief, the release is just a code, its written in 2.3 and its highly unlikely that they buried earlier beta versions in 2.3 that somehow the image app tapped into. This is an amazing exercise in how not to do something by Panasonic, its not going to help them in the face off aggressive competition from other manufacturers and to be honest...at the very least it will cast some doubt over the observational powers of many of the beta testers as well. At the end of the day we have a one part cinematic looking image from VLog that has a lot of potential when shot in the right light, with perfect exposure etc...and the other part dogs turd with magenta vomit everywhere...choose your poison wisely LOL!!! Talk about truth being stranger than fiction...jeez!!

Well I was going to buy it, but after everything I read and some of what I saw...I became doubtful and not in any rush. But I decided to try it out since they overlooked the image app activation, and at first I was really underwhelmed, then later on I started doing some serious tests with video lights and just filming a guitar with highlights on the neck and stuff. I reset the Zebras to 75 and 65 respectively so I can get a good exposure etc...with the 79 IRE rolloff. I then did a ton of A/Bs with Natural, Portrait and other settings...shooting the same scene under lighting, the difference is staggering actually V-Log has depth somehow (not talking about DOF) just the look of it, I am actually quietly blown away, it definitely has the X factor and somehow the other profiles look a bit plastic to my eyes compared to it, it just somehow looks more organic...a lot more organic. I did not expect it to look this much better...so far I have only used the Varicam LUT, a little bit of experimenting...not much, there is some noise in the shadows but nothing serious that neat video could not fix, personally I expected it to be a lot noisier, but it isnt if you push the exposure right... So anyway Panasonic doing this stuff up has given me a chance to try it and I will buy it happily, before I was a bit on the fence...not now. Images attached...yes the guitars under Port/ NAT etc...was overexposed, but even with the exact exposure the difference is vast in all areas. 3rd Image is the VLOG Cap...exact same lighting etc...

An interesting post from Illya Freedman For the record, 8-Bits can absolutely be enough for log space. What matters most is the quality of your bits, and what you attempt to make those bits do. Here's the thing, and this is absolutely something you won't hear from anyone else, V-Log-L on the GH4 is not the last significant update for the GH4! There's about 3x people outside of Panasonic that actually knows how much power is lurking under that hood. I have no idea if future updates will be contingent on this upgrade, but this camera is already producing more apparent resolution that several top end cameras made just for cinema. I projected a scientific test on a Christie 4K projector on a 25' screen in February 2014 which proved this. Now with V-Log-L, the humble GH4 just overtook the DR of several "professional" cameras costing many thousands more.

Interesting article and thanks Andrew for these tests. I have had the GH4 about a year now, I had thought of selling it and getting one of the newer Sonys, but after quite a bit of reading and deliberation I decided to keep it and not go with the current flavors of the month. The thing is Panasonic are a bit like Canon, a bit more cutting edge and obviously geared towards the hobbiest and film maker with not a lot of money, but they basically have the same conservative approach as Canon, point being when they build a camera its pretty much reliable and works well without a lot of add ons and cluttered menus. The GH4 for example never overheats, doesnt chew up batteries, runs forever on a single battery, has decent rolling shutter performance, gives a great detailed image with room to color correct within reason and needs only a few lenses. I have even shot bands at night with just the Panasonic 12-35 2.8 (obviously no speed booster) and have obtained a very nice image even tho it was underexposed. I learnt a long time ago that the more hurdles you have to jump through in order to be creative and get something in the moment, the less you will be inclined to do so, because of the amount of work you have to do to set things up in the first place. And this is where I feel Sony may be over reaching and in too much of a rush, they have made a great camera the in the A7RII...but it overheats, has bad rolling shutter in S35 mode, and a more or less has a difficult Log to use, complex menu system etc...it seems to me that they have great techs, great sensors, but are in too much of a rush to capture the market, and that may work for a short time, but in the long term I dont feel it will. Now if the V-Log turns out to be as good as many of the testers say, then the poor old underdog GH4 may just be the hidden gem in the pack, (Some owners of Panny and Sony cameras are already saying that) but I guess we will see. I read an article on News Shooter that I totally agreed with from a pro News Camera Man that I totally agree with, its an interesting read...here http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/07/sky-news-cameraman-andy-portch-reviews-a-year-shooting-news-with-the-panasonic-gh4/ Cheers

Interesting!!! It seems Panasonic are going well...50% jump in profit with car technology http://recode.net/2015/04/28/panasonic-sees-fourth-straight-year-of-profit-gains/ http://www.businessinsider.com/r-panasonic-sees-fourth-year-of-profit-gains-on-auto-electronics-growth-2015-4 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-26/panasonic-sees-tesla-cells-housing-fueling-8-year-high-profit Article also says that Sony is now showing some signs of a long awaited turnaround

Yep Generally agreed, but lets wait and see (and wait and wait and wait.......) what the V-Log brings to the GH4. Everyone thats used it has said the color science is vastly improved, Jordan dropped using the A7S as his B Cam when he got the V-Log GH4... Panasonic can do it, So can Sony....I am sure of that. In Panasonics case its probably a good move to get the V-Log out and stop sitting on their hands.

Umm Yeah...Taken them long enough, better late than never tho...or is it too little too late maybe. One thing tho Jordan from the Cam store says he now mainly uses it as his B Cam to his Sony FS7 He prefers it over the A7S now (his older B cam), judging by some of his posts he seems to really love it. So it may hold up against the A7R 11...maybe, obviously the A7R will kill it in a lot of areas, but maybe ease of use, price, gradability etc..will give it some air.

I actually thought the article was brilliant and very funny, well written and very witty...jeez some people need to loosen up a little...honestly some people get so precious about this stuff.

​I think thats doubtful, its good to remember that its hard sometimes to tell the difference between a 4K image and a 2K one if you are not sitting really close to the screen, if anything it will be probably will be that V-Log-L will give the GH4 a solid edge over the G7, depending on how good the release version of V-Log-L actually is. But considering the complaints on the net about how long Panasonic have taken to deliver this, I would think they would want to make it as good as it possibly can be.

Jordan, thanks for your responses One more question In the previous version of V-Log-L there was apparently more noise in the shadows (however it was easily cleaned I read) So is this version somewhat cleaner as far as noise goes...in the shadows?

I pretty much agree with the sentiments of this article. 1st off...I have owned the GH4 for about a year now, and actually I love the Camera, I have become a lot more skilled in how to set it up and use it over the last few months. I love what I am now getting out of the camera, and yes there was a learning curve with the GH4 to get the best out of it...I found that despite the fact that I used the GH2 for a long time as well. BUT (And I am not pissing in Andrews pocket here) there were 2 sources that really helped get the GH2 a lot of recognition...and that was EOSHD and Personal View, plus the Vitaliy / Driftwood hacks. Now Panasonic appear to have given Nick Driftwood a copy of V-Log2,(thats good) yet not Andrew? I know Andrew and Vitaliy appear to not get on...but that aside, to not give Andrew or Vitaliy a copy is nuts. Now both parties dont speak of Panasonic that favorably...can you really blame them? they gave Panasonic free advertising for several years, by virtue of genuine enthusiasm and some honest criticism as well. Now Panasonic more or less snub them and give copies to others, ...Seriously!! they get a D or lower for marketing!! PLUS...The current users of the GH4 have recieved no information why it has taken sooo long to get the V-Log L right...apart from Ilya Freedman saying once or twice...its coming sometime, cant say more than that tho...once again Panansonic gets lower than a D for marketing...possibly a Z for ZZZZZZ. Yes I know...They cant give away secrets and all that (I have been a 3d beta tester and builder for years...I know about this stuff) and I know crap when I see it, and Pannys marketing is crap!! with a capital C. They could easily say "We value our users, and we are developing V-Log L. we want to get it right and this V-Log that will increase this or that in the Camera...they could easily do this and not give away a thing...but nope.... [...] corporate silence and seat warming....and the occasional Youtube vid showing a flat vs some LUT applied along with Youtube compression...so GH4 owners can guess away...seriousy this is BS!! Meanwhile Sony has been chomping at the bit and moving into overdrive with mirrorless cams , BMD has created some really exciting new cameras coming up (yes they are generally more expensive...and they are only on paper right now, but they are still competition)...and of course Samsung has entered the market and made aggressive firmware updates to the NX1. Meanwhile Panny has done a little, but probably Too little...and Too late, they really need to get off the collective corporate arses and do something ..or say something thats solid. And give the firmware to some of the bloggers like Andrew!! [...] As I said I am a fan of the GH4, but if they dont get a clue soon..I for one will be looking at Sony, BMD or Samsung for my next cam for certain.

​Ha ha ha Agreed!!!...I like your articles, because they are not politically correct, actually you hear the same old argument from Canon apologists, its a perfect camera for such and such...and it will have a great image, proper 4K lens etc...and probably there is some truth in these statements. But its now 2015 and Panansonic, Sony, BMD are offering soo much more at soo much less, and all these manufacturers have cameras that are capable of a great image in the right hands. Canon deserve to be called out, wether you agree or not with Andrew is up to you, but the reality is Canon charges waaay too much for waaay to little in 2015!

​You could be right...Trendy? yep its kinda nebulous to try and define it

​Yep Beautiful...just to be clear tho...I only posted the link, I did not shoot it...I posted some comments on Vineo on it and Personal View , thats all. But yeah lovely footage, great colors ...deep and rich, without too much of the candyfloss pop thats so popular these days, the whole thing...Fantastic!

Ha ha ha Very true, if it was shot on the A7s or the NX1 or the Canon Cinema range...many would be wetting themselves!! But on the GH4? oh no I see highlight blowouts, look at the noise in the shadows, it lacks dimension, shitty dynamic range and so on yada yada...laughable

Agreed, I get a little suspicious when people rant about specs too much, it is a bit like guitars...when someone says such and such a guitar is sooo much better because of this reason or that, the first thing I want to do is hear them play. As Steve Vai once said...when people get too caught up in I use this amp, with this vintage valve mic, thru to such and such a pre amp and then to tape...yada yada...well you grow old that way LOL!! Obviously there is a difference between say a great guitar and a shit one, but that difference is not that great (as some make out) between say an NX1 vs GH4 vs C100 or C300 or whatever from Canon..or even a Red, perhaps even the "GOD" Alexa! So if anyone says the GH4 footage is just "OK" thats fine, but perhaps show something you have shot that is miles better, that anyone could see..(without pixel peeping) otherwise its just words. Take this footage for example https://vimeo.com/125389854 this could have been shot on an Alexa or anything else, its great!! However if you think it shows the failings​ and limitations of the GH4, thats fine...but then post something "you have done" that is noticeably better that anyone can see....its easy to quote specs on a forum (and yes specs are important...to a degree) but the reality is, the GH4 (even without V-Log) can produce an amazing image in the right hands. Buying an NX2 or a GH5 is not going to make your work "miles" better, it will simply give you more options thats all. How do I know? Well I operate a 20 core Xeon E5-2680 v2 CPU and a ton of VST plug ins, libraries of sounds, and a couple of very versatile DAW's..and a lot of mastering plugs and hardware. You know what? I cant make better music on this than I did 5 or so years ago on a quad core with far less,the reality is I am limited by my imagination and skills...its the law of diminished returns, go back 20 years...yes there is a difference, go back 5 years...not so much. The GH4 vs the NX1 vs Canon or others ..even less so. .

This is impressive You can download it in 4K with https://www.4kdownload.com/ Still got youtubes compression etc...but yeah, this is starting to look very interesting.

Hmm depends what you like I guess, I personally did not like that 5D footage at all...oversaturated totally and looks like a video cartoon TBH. The screen display of the Vid alone looks really 2D... from front to back there is absolutely no dimension at all...no Z depth, I have been a 3d artist that builds 3d worlds for the last 15 years..I have to deal with color matching , building environments that look super real etc...so I know a bit about this stuff. Some may like it tho...but thats art for ya..some like certain things...others dont, a bit like food really. But I can guarantee using vivid on the GH4 and perhaps a LUT as well as pushing the colors in post I could get the GH4 to look pretty much exactly like this...but I wouldnt want to fro what I like. But here is a real quick example with a cap of footage I previously shot ages ago and a 5 second job in post...of course you wont like them because its not a Canon with ("Canon Colors") and it also does not have great dimension either...but hey horses for courses...ground is brown cause of lack of rain at that time, if it was normal green I could easily get it to match the green in that footage...however its not the type of color I generally like...so I wouldn't bother.