Astro

I agree with Andrew and aside of the graphs.... the evidence appears to be there and his arguments make a lot of sense. How many shooters have left Canon recently and advising others that they no longer need to look at Canon/ Nikon anymore for hybrid Cameras in DSLR format...Celeb Pike, Dave Dugdale and many others, tons of them on youtube that own or no longer own a Canon...scan through some reviews and you will see what I mean, the bigger ones are getting between 10,000 and 35,000 hits on theiir reviews of the Gh4 and A7s, this has to have an effect. Last time I looked at camera sales and Camcorders at BH Photo the GH4 and A7s were in number one and two position, I had to wait over two months (after paying) to get a GH4 in Australia, the importer told me (and they have about 4 outlets online that stock Canons, Nikons etc...), that it is very difficulty to get a GH4, they are so much in demand, same for the A7s...I dont think he is talking about niche markets here, nor do I think BH having those cameras at the top of the list of sellers is niche either, or Amazon selling out over and over. As I said the evidence is crystal clear, Panasonic cant keep up with demand, they doubled production a while back...and Sony would be delighted with the response and sales of the A7s as well. Sure both cameras have their well documented achiles heels, but consumers want better hybrids with increasingly better and more comprehensive video features...most of my friends (know didlley squat about video) are content to shoot (Postcards from or happy snaps) on their iPhones. But I have asked them what would you want from a DSLR or Mirrorless cam and they all indicate ..great video quality and some bells and whistles, but they would not spend $5000 plus on a Canon C line cam.. Sony, Panasonic and Olympus have clearly seen this gap and they are going for it, and its paying off, the evidence is there, and I think Andrew is right on the money. I dont agree with everything he says but I sure agree with this. Its my opinion only...but look at the sales of these cams, how can you argue against that!

Cheers Tim...nice evenly balanced advice. I did a load of research, read loads of forums and downloaded a lot of footage before deciding to go with the GH4...as I could not get my hands on one before ordering...I am pretty much in the same boat now with the Sony. I am kinda lucky, cause I can afford the Sony as well, but its a bit of a stretch and there will be extra costs with that cam, plus I have recently read a few pretty negative reviews about it (mainly about ergonomics) so I am taking a wait and see approach right now. One thing is certain tho...although I like the 5D Mk3 with ML's RAW hack, its not a Camera I want right now...and I think that its better to wait and see if Canon even responds to the GH4 and A7s (price and feature wise), they may not...maybe they dont need to. Its difficult with cameras, cause everyone has a different want, likes a different image etc...(a bit like art really...so its best to not ever get into the this looks better than that debate...cause there is no real universal agreement on any of that) That said..... right now... with the Sony, for me it comes down to ergonomics, grading, RS, handling, flexibilty and a bunch of other things...and viewing a lot of the newer footage that is surfacing. Time will tell I guess.

I have to totally agree 100% with this!! Thats how it came across to me too. I appreciate the efforts Andrew puts into his reviews...there is some great information and he does a good job. I have the GH4 but I certainly didn't buy it on Andrews recommendation tho. However the mood of this article came across to me as being a little bit fickle. The GH4 was the best thing that happened only a month or so ago, and suddenly its now the Beginning of the end for that camera...wow!! OK Maybe he could have waited a few more weeks LOL!! We know the GH4 has some flaws and weaknesses and so does the A7S...as many have pointed out.. But after reading his article, it does read a little bit like "New Toy" and as you said that will definitely piss people off that bought the GH4 based, or part based on his previous enthusiasm...just a matter of weeks ago. The end result? People will be suspicious that his views are highly changeable and a bit fickle at best. I know Andrew loves Full Frame Cameras and all that, and I know technology moves fast, and I am sure the Sony fits the scope of his work very well, but the radical switching of opinion and the "Beginning of the End" stuff is really not necessary.

Jeez I feel kinda bad posting that link from Eriks site, but it does help to get a look at all the different aspects of a camera....especially if you are going to shell out bucks and buy it, its good to be well informed of strengths and weaknesses, I made sure that I read all the good and bad on the GH4 before I decided to buy it, so no real nasty surprises. On another note...I found Andrews video tests very interesting, one thing tho, resolution and dynamic range aside, the color of the ground and trees on the later A/B's (2min 10sec on) seemed brownish tinged especially with the BMPCC and also somewhat with the a7s, whereas on the GH4 and 5DMk3 they were more or less green. Has this been mentioned before, what color were they? Just wondering.. :)

BTW, there is no such thing as "5D3 RAW." The RAW part is a 3rd party hack, not provided, authorised or endorsed by Canon. A regular 5D3 is another product. If you wish to participate in a length-peeing contest, doping your instrument won't take you to the podium. It only takes you on the top of the dunghill. Just saying. ;) Jeez get off your trip, your coming off like a major tosser!!! First off I dont own a 5D Mk3, and I dont plan to buy one, 3rd I am no Canon Fanboy, 4th I know its the Magic Lantern Hack that created the RAW processing ability n the 5D Mk3...thats old news, its well known and I dont need to be told that from you. Your attitude is totally condesending and superior and judging, all I said was Andrew is probably in the Honeymoon stage, and he probably is. As far as Erik sounding like "another narrow-sighted gadget nerd" ...aren't we the great judge?...it must be nice to be so perfect as you seem to think you are,....and you are no button pressor either... only simpletons do that...right? If Erik said something you approved of, you obviously would not say that, ...so you are conveying the same prejiduces that you just wrote a whole long and boring intellectual ramble about, basically saying that others are in this particular mindset that you yourself are displaying in your post in relation to Erik and others. And as far as your totally condescending comment about people (on this forum) wanting things to happen with the press of a button...you dont know what I do (or anyone else for that matter) But heres a hint...I design and write scripts and create 3d objects for world scenes that people (customers) press buttons in various host software packages and that makes things happen...and its not easy to do or learn. So get over it, you dont know what people here are like or what they do...or anything else. Leave your superior attitude at home where it belongs. People have different opinions, get over it, it doesn't mean they are gadjet nerds, button pressors, and therefore need to be instructed or corrected by you.

Erik makes some great points He certainly does...and he has had the camera longer than Andrew, I have read other reviews about the A7s that express similar sentiments as Erik feels, then theres the constant posts about trouble with skin tones, fidgety grading in the codec, inacurate colors, Jello, RS, problems using S-Log2 in lower ISOs higher light settings etc... I cant help feelingt that Andrew is in the honeymoon stage (1 week with the camera is not long enough) and statements like end of 5D MK3, beginning of the end for GH4 come across as being a bit fickle to be honest. Lets see how he feels (not that it would really influence my decision) after about 2 months of using it. :)

Interesting article on the a7s by Erik Naso after he has had the camera for a month http://eriknaso.com/2014/07/20/things-that-drive-me-crazy-about-the-sony-a7s/

I just had a good look at this and I also had a good look at the 4K Nick Driftwood short film at Brighton showing skin tones...I did not see any green tinting or magenta or artefacts or moire. I also own a GH2 and I am a professional 3d artist for the last ten years...and before that an airbrush mural artist (what would I know?) I only mix colors daily for 2d textures on 3d models, define realistic ray trace or hi res shadow map shadows with 3d lights, set sub surface scattering for realistic skin etc...etc... I cant see it!!...especially in the Driftwood vid, if you cant make a good image or film with this camera...then you probably cant make a good image or film with whatever else is out there either.

Very interesting, they seem to be the only Japanese manufacturer (perhaps apart from Olympus to some degree) ready to try and fill the gap that Blackmagic is currently catering to...that's very interesting. There is no doubt that the BMCC and pocket cinema camera captures beautiful footage, but it will be interesting how Panasonic does all the other stuff...(smaller file sizes that grade well, ergonomics, screen etc..). I am hoping for some high frame rates as well, perhaps in 2K? that would be awesome.. If they get all that right, this will be a winner for them...if it's true! 

I totally agree with this, Dtest and Andrew completely overstated my comments, I was not saying we have to create a movie and get actors, sets and entertainment, popcorn or whatever else...thats typical of forums, people misread and misunderstand one another all the time, then they post over the top reactions. Like it or not, to a large degree image content is whats being posted here to show dynamic range, highlight rolloff smooth gradation of midtones and whatever else. So these are content and image tests to a large degree, if you want to make it technical, then make it technical and scientific, otherwise people will judge the camera on the image (as I did) when I said thedtest's video looked totally boring, he also said the GH3 could never produce images like these. But to my eye the video Sofoly Wedding Collection filmed on the GH3 looks far better, nice rolloff, the skintones are nice, lighting great, and lots of favorable comments... (and I'll bet if there was a blindfold test...most would pick the Wedding Collection)....so I rest my case. If you are going to post images and say how great they look or great the camera is...then those images should look great...to say (in so many words) that images are simply tests and content does not really matter is contradictory, if thats the case then why not simply post a scientific test!

[quote name='MattH' timestamp='1348142087' post='18678'] Things I infer from this interview: Is the HDMI output 4-2-2? [i]No its 4-2-0. Why would we spend so long designing and optimising a stable high bit codec in camera if we wanted you to use a fucking ninja? The output is perfectly suitable for a field monitor, but you won’t be recording shit out of it.[/i] Is it a Sony sensor? [i]Translation: Yes it is it’s the same sensor from the EM5. We saw Olympus taking all the glory for having better quality so we decided to sacrifice the multi aspect sensor for the slightly better dynamic range of the Sony one. This will have an effect on the overall video quality as well. The footage will look less like the old Panasonic video-like look and more of a Sony video-like look. So if you want a more film like look you will have to save up and either put up with the artificially crippled detail of the 5dmk3 which should be sharp as a tack due to the 4*4 pixel binning, or put up with the rainbow moiré of the BMC because they skipped putting in an optical low pass filter in this version to get the camera out the door.[/i] [/quote] Ha ha ha LOL!! :lol: Hilarious!!

[quote name='P4INKiller' timestamp='1348074140' post='18607'] We must find this pocahontas and conduct some more thorough, extensive skintone tests. [/quote] LOL!!!

GREAT!! Cant wait for the GH3 to be released, so I will order another GH2 when the price drops even more!!

[quote name='sanveer' timestamp='1348017279' post='18545'] Vitaly just makes Tall Claims. He has an opinion on Every programmer on the Planet. If he were so smart, Panasonic would have had him, on board, by now. They have their reasons. And,obviously, he has his. [/quote] :lol: LOL!! Probably very true. [quote name='sanveer' timestamp='1348017279' post='18545'] He did hack the GH2, and maybe, it made colouring and grading a little easier. But, the picture Profile is Exactly the same. Whether he says than in Russian, or in French, or in English. That won't affect the truth. [/quote] Yep...If they hacked the picture profile and made curves possible and got the I Dynamic function working properly. I would buy two more, not just one as I am now planning.

[quote name='afaccon' timestamp='1348001540' post='18512'] What shall I do with my GH2? [/quote] Keep it, I will be keeping mine, perhaps buying another one as well.

[quote name='sanveer' timestamp='1348014950' post='18536'] I did realise, after shooting a lot of videos, on my GH2, that the GH2 has insane FLAT picture profile, under certain ideal conditions. ONLY. These are: 1. Seriously Overcast Sky (though, not at very late, in the evening. Because, low light, ruins it). 2. Slightly Over-exposed (about 2 stops). I guess, I'll just hold on to the GH2, for now. It has served me well, and it does some phenomenal video. At a fraction of the cost of the Alexas, the REDs and the Canon C series. The BMCC is good, but, its like a series of never ending investments, starting with SSD Drives, new wider lense, and much higher capacity of editing set-up. The GH2, for now, does everything at a fraction of the cost, and headache. [/quote] This pretty much is exactly what I feel, I'll just wait until someone gets the message and delivers something thats good. I would be happy to part with $3,000 for decent DSLR video, but not the BMCC its far too Mac orientated, too much dependant on large (massive) storage, needs so much pimping up...the cost will add up etc.. The GH3 gets close to ticking the boxes, but definitely not enough over the GH2 (for me anyway) maybe when its released it may be better ...but right now...no.

[quote name='cameraboy' timestamp='1348007618' post='18529'] looks like that gh3 is not finished product ... more alpha than beta ... [/quote] :D LOL!! Very True...its definitely Alpha!! Lets hope they put a frikkin Muti Aspect sensor back in too...while they are at it. (although I seriously doubt that will happen) According to a post by Vitaliy making 4.2.2 (or even 4.4.4) out should not be that hard, but not even that is there. It seems the corporate hardheads have got their way, the GH2 was probably a mistake they would rather gloss over LOL Back to the Future anyone?

[quote name='Hideki' timestamp='1348005605' post='18526'] To clarify. Much of my criticism is a matter of preference. The GH2 was particularly unique in it's clarity. It had a distinct look that I haven't seen in any other cameras in this class. Many have disliked it's sharpness claiming it didn't have a film like look to it. For me personally I am quite fond of the GH2 "look" and am very disappointed that the GH3 may have a different picture personality to it. Thoughts? [/quote] Agreed, and on the subject of softness, if the GH2 had shot that shot at 7 sec and 17 sec it would have rendered more detail definitely. Maybe its some kind of filter that kicks in when the light is lower...but those shots in particular look blunt. The other shots are better ...the girl in daylight looks good. I am with Hideki, I just am not that convinced by what I see so far...incl the Cat video. [quote name='Hideki' timestamp='1348005605' post='18526'] The GH3 was going to be the camera that maintained the exceptional crisp images but added many of the features that ultimately did make it in. I am concerned that they reinvented it and in the process lost the best attribute of it's predecessor. Trust me I hope I'm wrong. Thoughts? [/quote] It appears that way, hopefully we are wrong, I am happy to be wrong, but the early signs certainly dont make me want to rush out and buy one.

[quote name='Hideki' timestamp='1347999370' post='18504'] [color=#008000][size=4][font=verdana,geneva,sans-serif][b]My Take on the GH3 so far...[/b][/font][/size][/color] To sum up my thoughts. I am very unimpressed with the video I have seen thus far. It totally lacks the clarity and unique appeal of the GH2. [/quote] I could not have put it better, I have been shooting a music clip on the GH2 recently and I love the look, yeah I have to be careful not to blow the highlights, yeah some color correction is needed here and there...but I love the look, the detail is amazing. Where is it on Genesis? its a great production, nice slick style, plenty of lights/camera/action and a story. But where is the clean detail? (talking about the large 1080P footage here). I also would like to add that I viewed the 1080P footage in VLC player, media player classic from Home Cinema, and in Premiere CS6 Well to my eyes...it aint there, yeah the girls face looks pretty detailed close up, but honestly the GH2 captures more. This was the camera I was waiting for, I could put out money on it tomorrow...but I wont. What I have seen so far is in a word..kinda underwhelming. I dont like to rain on anyones parade, but these videos have certainly rained on mine...I just hope maybe something is wrong with those early models maybe. [quote name='Hideki' timestamp='1347999370' post='18504'] I was looking forward to this camera for a long time and on paper it looks fantastic! I love the shooting modes, it would be a dream come true for people looking for slow motion shooting. I love the aluminum build and weather sealing. Not having a multi aspect sensor is something I can live with. [/quote] Yep...not having a multi aspect sensor is a total bummer, but if the image made up for it...it would be OK, but it doesn't sadly. [quote name='Hideki' timestamp='1347999370' post='18504'] However; I suspect that the new sensor is not capable of providing the wonderful moving images that the GH2 is famous for. As others have said, it looks very similar to what we have come to expect from Canon DSLR's. I hope that firmware patches can solve some of the issues but I am skeptical. I will stick with my GH2 unless I'm proved to be wrong. Thoughts? [/quote] 100% agree, I dont think any firmware packs are going to fix this, cause the GH2 has "that look" out of the box. And Panansonic have seemingly managed to "Kill it off" and get rid of everything that was good about the GH2. How did they manage to do that? LOL!! :D Thats a feat and a half...after to talking to[b] 100 or so "pros[/b]" they killed of the Multi aspect sensor, didn't add 4.2.2, didnt add a flat profile, made it take a less detailed image, no focus peaking. Jeez...If I was them I would go into damage control and start re making the GH2's because they will be snapped up LOL!!!

[quote name='charlie_orozco' timestamp='1347987549' post='18466'] I wonder if you guys are watching the 720p version or the 1080p version. What I do see in what appears to be the electronic lens shots (the 12-35mm f2.8) is some aliasing, which worries me a bit. Aside from that the image looks great for a compressed 1080p h264 video. [/quote] No As I stated in an earlier post I have the large original 500meg plus MP4 file at 1080P. Still looks soft to me

[quote name='KarimNassar' timestamp='1347977091' post='18450'] My thoughts exactly Astro So far it has only looked good on paper And what we've seen looks like markII footage wait and see fingers crossed [/quote] Yep

@markm Yep...We definitely need to learn a lot more. So far there have been some really great things, but I feel a lot of reservation about buying this camera. I havent seen anything (yet) that beats the GH2 as far as video is converned in terms of clarity (I dont like to use the word sharpness...cause I have mine to -2)...just detail...good solid clean detail. Where was it in those room shots especially the wider ones, it was really soft (everything was), it just amazes me people cant see that. I know the GH2 has the limited dynamic range, but if you shoot in the right circumstances it is not a big issue really (for me) and the Zacuto shootout showed that also. But that softness would get to me, its what I did not like about the 5D Mk 3 ...although the GH3 is not nearly as bad, it does not look (from these early videos) to look as detailed as the GH2 sadly...I hope I am wrong, I want to be wrong. We will see.

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347961787' post='18429'] The footage still looks soft especially in lower light levels. I would think this could be on par with a canon mark3 [/quote] Yeah a lot of people are saying that the clips (P Blooms also) look plenty sharp, I just dont agree, some shots are good. Even in the large 1080P MP4 file...shots like the aireal shot of the guy lying on the bed at 8 sec is really soft and the shot at 18 sec...is not that sharp either. The thing that worries me is nothing is sharp in those shots, so its probably not just a lens being slightly out of focus. Anyway I guess I am pixel peeping, I would like to see more, the detail on the cat was great tho, but its 720P. I dunno time will tell I guess.

It does use 4 x 4 and 8 x 8 scaling matrixes according to Nicks tests on Personal View. He described it as incredibly efficient Direct quotes >Luma Samples 5,652,480 (around 2.5 times more luma samples are observed than on the GH2) >Macroblocks 22,080 (nearly 3 times more than the GH2) >Straight edged vertical/horizontal highlights receive 4x4 pmode encoding. >8x8 mode for most of everything else. >Max video bit rate for video coding layer in kbit/s for High Profile level 5, 168,750 (well over twice the power of the Gh2's level 4.1) So all that sounds really good. I too am extremely disappointed at no Multi Aspect (almost a deal breaker) but it obviously is offering a lot. We will see...I guess.