HurtinMinorKey

I wonder how much R&D $ goes into making one of these cams. Is it time for the EOSHD-cam?

[quote name='Paul' timestamp='1348173076' post='18754'] I think the Apple/Canon comparison is interesting. [/quote] Except when you look at how their stock prices are doing over the past year (+60% vs -20%). The only reason Canon can even try an play this nerfware game with their products is because Sony has agreed to play along. Sooner or later, entry via BMC and Kineraw is going to force them to play fair. Until then, we have to put up with this bullshi* collusion by the big boys.

[quote name='QuickHitRecord' timestamp='1348073419' post='18606'] Hasselblad's model is a bit scary. [/quote] Hasselblad could blow the doors off everyone with medium format video. Plus, they don't have an existing v-cam market to protect.

[quote name='FilmMan' timestamp='1347939797' post='18415'] The video looks, well, like f'n film! Look at the black detail. Check out 5:40 to see the video in action. It is still early but this camera looks very, very interesting. [url="https://vimeo.com/49464083"]https://vimeo.com/49464083[/url] [/quote] Yah, there is only about 5 seconds worth of the actual footage. The rest of the demo was shot on something else.

[quote name='markm' timestamp='1347961787' post='18429'] The footage still looks soft especially in lower light levels. I would think this could be on par with a canon mark3 [/quote] Agreed. No detail on the faces in the crowd. Looks 5Dish to me.

[quote name='richg101' timestamp='1347891481' post='18343'] gh2 out of the box at 24mbs is better quality than your 5dmk2 at 50mbs with proper lighting. Bitrate isnt everything... [/quote] Yes, but there is only so much you can do to make one intra codec more efficient than another. You're removing a huge degree of freedom from the compression(time) that inter is allowed. In this respect, I don't see any reason to think that the 80Mbit All-I codec from the Gh3 will noticably exceed the detail of the 5D3. I hope I'm wrong.

Phil has been back on this sight recently. My guess is cooler heads prevailed and that all is good in the hood between A. and P. I wouldnt be suprised if Andrew recommended Phil, but he certainly wouldn't begrudge him the gig.

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1347660691' post='18067'] Yes. So what? 4:2:0 equals roughly the spreading ratio of cone cells on the retina, which are sensitive only for a color each ('RGB'). The brain combines their signals to form the [i]sharp[/i] image in the center of our field of vision (the borders are blurred like a shallow DoF vignette, and are much less saturated, since outside the fovea the B&W rod cells predominate), interpolating much more color information than any video compression. If our own vision is hardly more than a roughly colored B&W image, how can 4:2:0 make such a big difference? In secondary color corrections, you often feather the masks quite liberally without any problems. We simply have no senses for color resolution. [/quote] But your still throwing away luminance information, right?. So even in terms of B&W we'd have less information. In other words 4-2-0 requires more interpolation. I might be on crack, but I'm really curious about this. Thanks for the info.

[quote name='sanveer' timestamp='1347655403' post='18054'] Dude, your assumption has no edifice. Solid or otherwise. [/quote] It's not a strech to assume that a licensing agreement includes limitations on what a product can and can't be used for. In fact, it's common sense. [quote name='Axel' timestamp='1347658179' post='18064'] I am not so sure what you expect of 4:2:2. You won't [u]see[/u] any difference compared to 4:2:0. It is color resolution actually. 4:2:0 is a compression factor that uses the [u]inability[/u] of the human eye to distinguish colors with the same accuracy as subtle brightness changes. [/quote] I'm not sure this is documented fact. The bottom line is that 4:2:0 throws away color information, so it will certainly affect grading.

[quote name='sanveer' timestamp='1347654168' post='18050'] It doesn't mean anything. The sensor is just 25-30% of the deciding factor. for the image and video output of a camera. [/quote] When you sign a contract with Sony to use their sensor, you bet your ass it does (mean something). The contract will stipulate exactly how that sensor can be used.

If it is a Sony sensor, then we can kiss the good detail of the gh2 goodbye. I don't think Sony would let the Pany outdo their a99.

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1347531844' post='17884'] Speaking of 3D: What if someone invented a 3D technique without the need for glasses? For the big screen? No swords protruding from the screen, but if you moved your head, the [i]perspective[/i] would change slightly, you would be able to see the side (technology already exists for stills, millions of tiny lenses are connected like in a compound eye, and various angles, also on the z-axis, are stored). [/quote] Image in the data requirements you'd need to make it look good. 3D is one thing, but making the actual perspective change when you move your head would require a retarded amount of information.

Adrdrew, speaking of the Dell u2711, how does it compare to the 27 inch imac monitors? Overall I liked Phil's review, but I was afraid it would never end.

I always thought the good ol' 5D2 was at its best in BW.

[quote name='avrofilmvideo' timestamp='1346709723' post='17255'] That's right..youngsters Off to School.. TADA have to go now-time to make some $$ [/quote] Doing what? Working in the call center for Sony? Have fun with that.

This is how it works in the aging Japanese corperate world. Somone important makes a big mistake(the pricing of the c300), and then no one will tell them they made a mistake, so they end up doubling down on their mistakes (c100 pricing). I still think the c300 is the best camera at its price or below, but I'm not sure the increase in quality over its rivals justifies the huge price premium. BTW, did anyone watch the c500 preview with Jeff Cronenweth? He said something to the effect of: the best thing about this system are the new lenses(Canon cine zooms). Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the camera itself though.

This is what happens when a company gets too old. They have way too many products competing with each other at this point. This is like MBA 101 stuff Canon figure it out, or else... http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/CAJ/tab/2 The company has lost more than 20% of it's value since it released the 5d3.

[quote name='Philip Lipetz' timestamp='1346260138' post='16851'] canon support are the ones saying 4:2:0 output [/quote] As in, you called them?

[quote name='Philip Lipetz' timestamp='1346256168' post='16838'] canon support now says that the HDMI output is 4:2:0 8 bit. [/quote] link?

c 500: [url="http://www.canon.com.au/About-Canon/News-Events/News-Press-Releases/Canon-launches-Cinema-EOS-System-flagship-camera?cid=%20scfb120860"]http://www.canon.com...cid= scfb120860[/url] 60fps 4K 10bit raw

[quote name='Philip Lipetz' timestamp='1346256168' post='16838'] canon support now says that the HDMI output is 4:2:0 8 bit. [/quote] Which means a noticable fall-off in image quality from the c300: weaksauce. On the brightside, it looks like Canon has heard the shots across it's bow from the emeging upstarts. But they still seem a year behind the times. The quality of the kineraw mght absolutely destroy this cam.

So frame compression is all that matters (given a certain data constraint) for intra-frame compression( that what i was infering between posts #3-6). My point is that i'd rather see a higher bitrate inter codec on the gh3 than a high bitrate intra-codec.

Am i confusing inter and intra? I thought all-i (intra) was each frame compressed independently, and inter-frame compression used "synthetic" frames.

So i guess it all comes down to the frame compression. I guess 375 kb per frame is enough if compressed properly. I'd still all-I isn't as useful as people think. Inter gives you way more bang for your buck at lower bitrates.

I thought the reason the gh2 was so detalied was that it was a high bit-rate inter-frame codec? The 5d3 does more mbits than this for intra-frame and it gets blocky.