zephyrnoid

You're clearly not cognizant of how Japanese Industrial Complex works. There are lots of books out there for that. Basically, they pretend to complete. They actually share a lot of IP and as we already know, fabrication is typically single sourced and multiple 'badged'. The challenge that all the camera manufacturers have is the same- They have a difficult time parsing the marketplace and therefore of rationalizing thier roll-out roadmaps resulting in the 'Waterfall Approach' to development*. That and the fact that the tech is shifting so quickly, is why we have a mess out there. The consumer is just a dumb patron to them. What I believe needs to happen soon in Japan is brand consolidations ( ie- mergers). There's too much duplication of effort and I know that the Japanese know that duplication is a WASTE. Once we have brand consolidation, then you'll see the opposite of competition as companies will be reduced to two or three at max serving the gamut of market segments, Something like this: Sony/Olympus, Nikon/Canon> consumer to Professional Arri/RED> Hollywood & Bollywood leaving BlackMagic/Kinefinity as fringe players in the R&D domain serving fist time adopters (Anybody want to adopt Panasonic? they ought to merge with Sony/Olympus)   BlackMagic is a fringe operation. They remind me of Flip Video ( a brilliant product before they disappeared) Flip was as revolutionary and as quirky as BlackMagic. CISCO bought it, marketed it and in 2011, Killed it outright. I suspect this is what might happen to BlackMagic, though I doubt anyone will buy it just for Resolve ;) * Waterfall is actually so Un-Japanese. Develop> Prototype> Test> Release pubic beta>re-evaluate> redesign> repeat The Japanese did away with this American system and developed Kaizen. In Kaizen each step has  an internal 'redesign loop' resulting in much loger lifecycles and therefore product releases. This is unpalatable to Western consumers, who are constantly looking for 'New' ever 6 months. So the Japanese have had to abandon thier own best pracices of the 70's-90's which has resulted in a return to 1960's American lifecycles. That is why you have hundreds of refreshments per annum that result in only incremental improvements. It's a mess.

Did I hear an echo ? :D either Super35 or DX. Nikon could get on the stick and come up from behind. Not sure why they are not interested in this market space. Realistically, Sony could do it in partnership with Olympus. The waiting..... The angst...... :angry:

...And as we all know the accelerating improvements ( competition)  and diminishing costs to the manufacturers can easily force prices downwards. BArely out the Gate the Panasonic GH3 is selling at 18% of its release price. This bodes well for customers !

Ah! I see that Is the workflow as easy as in Pro-Res> NLE ?

Actually. All three will be worried as it borrows from thier cameras and stands a chance of filling a gap that's been gaping for a while now. The Sub $10K do-it-all. They are not quite 'there' yet but with some massaging and proper coaching, say in a year from now? Apple ought to give them rights to use ProRes as I disdain the thought of warehousing all that RAW footage knowing my delivery platform is tablets, laptops and handhelds.

Well. We all know a Global shutter will make pans 'readable'  by eliminating jitter and jello (J&J) so humn. I'll take 2K in a Global shutter over 4K in a Rolling shutter. Why we can't have a CCD vs CMOS sensor is a mystery to me.That wold end the Rolling shutter issue altogether. I sense that Kinefinity is well capitalized and when asked how it's possible that they can deliver 4K RAW at less than half the price of the 'other company' ( RED/Sony ) - there was a pause and I could almost hear the silent reply.... ..."Because we feed our people white rice three times a day and our workers put in 12 hour long workdays" That is cause for us to rejoice ( I suppose ) What BM is thinking?... I dunno !  

Joke right? BMCC is made in a Communist Country- China

So I was on mark it seems. Kinefinity has purloined elements from several other cameras and mashed them together. Brilliant! Add ProRes,serious Audio Inputs and here's your RED Epic killer. Ouch! Now we know why Jim Jannard is pouting. This can't be good for RED. I can't wait for MiniProRes/RAW ;) ... and a 6K camera I just wish they would make the sensors upgradable rather than force complete chasis replacements. This video sounds like an accelerated RED Digital roadmap.With the speed that the sensors are moving along; they should focus on sensor module replacements at a nominal upgrade cost. The external deck looks unweildy. Sounds like some of RED's design team should visit China ;) https://vimeo.com/72841566#

So I was on mark it seems. Kinefinity has purloined elements from several other cameras and mashed them together. Brilliant! Add ProRes,serious Audio Inputs and here's your RED Epic killer. Ouch! Now we know why Jim Jannard is pouting. This can't be good for RED. I can't wait for MiniProRes/RAW ;)

Let's look at the upgrade trajectory for some of these cameras  for video. Can someone help me rationalize these companys' upgrade roadmaps for us? Canon 7D 1080Full HD MOV (Suddenly) >  APS-C RAW via One Chasis Sony FS700 2K  ( as promised) > 4k RAW with an external ) via One Chasis Canon C300 > C100 > C500 4K Raw via Three Chasis RED> Initial line confusion but settled on> EPIC ONE Upgradable Chasis  > RED ONE Mysterium > EPIC Mysterium-X > Dragon Kinefinity > KineRAW 2K RAW > KineRAW Mini 4K sensor 2KRAW via Two Chasis I'm sure I have some of this awry but you get the idea. Canon Consumer sells 'End of Life' bodies that can be resusitated via hacks and firmware upgrades but that eventually need to be replaced Sony just 'gets it' now about one chasis, many upgrades so we shall see how the FS/ Canon Pro video sells 'End of Life' bodies rather than an upgradeable chasis RED's 'Obsolecense Osolete' took hold for real with Epic BMCC is a startup so it's hard to divine a roadmap just yet. They have two products for two differing markets with no clear path for how either of those products get refreshed. Kinefinity is a startup that seems to be following Sony's roadmap but with no clue about how upgradeable the two current chasis are. They Seem to be competeing in Sony market space rather than BMC but obviously culling ideas from everyone ;) I left ARRI Alexa and Sony F55 out as they are in a different category, yet I'd love to learn what their forward strategy is with respect to physical sensor upgradability.               ,

Excellent! That sums it up and my key point is that when you start with a BOX form-factor versus the one Millionth decendent of the Leica (which was designed to transport film in the image path >>>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Ur-Leica_IMG_0259.JPG/800px-Ur-Leica_IMG_0259.JPG You stand a way better chance of moving the product design improvements in a logical and perhaps, modular direction. RED got it right with the concept of a box that is upgradable. Sony FS700 also 'gets that memo'. If the folks at KineRAW are as smart as I suspect they are ( they have been listening  to USERS after all) they will follow RED's lead and develop modular cameras that use common 'Chasis', heatsink and component interfaces. As for cost. Nothing is more expensive than a cheap camera that you entirely replace every year.

Very nice! You are right Color Gamut and Higher DR are indeed a better focus than resolution for lyrical narrative. The corporate and TVC shooters might disagree however. I was a bit ticked at the Moire, aliasing and jello however. My HV20 using tape doesn't have tose issues ;)

I also like the form-factor ( yes me, the DSLR hater) . If they can pull all the lessons learned from the rest of the pack, they stand a chance of being the next low budget assignment shooter's dream. We shall see. The race is becoming HOT !

Yes. My grading yielded a very similar look.it certainly handled the range well, even though there's some crushing /clipping of deepest readable shadows (the gent's jackets and the street sign). Not to much noise in the shadows.

I downloaded the files and did some quick color grading. Not bad bud I want to take n the file with sky.

I do see the bmpcc as a replacement for my tired old Flip Mino HD :-)

[quote name="Kays Alatrakchi" post="39858" timestamp="1375552217"   It's not as if Blackmagic products need to "call home" every few days because otherwise they'll stop working...that actually would be Adobe products![/quote] The one subject that no never hear about is the one of forced end of life due to bankruptcy or product discontinuation due to forced obsolescence. Cases: Silicon graphics Flip video Kodak Apple fc, Adobe cs These are not cars, they are expendable electronics.

GH3? Ah man! you bought another Panasonic 'beta' camera ?

Sorry. "a price that properly reflects the hardware used." ? They fooled everyone into thinking that a replication of zero-cost software,  Davinci Resolve, a "1000 dollar value bundled with your preorder if only you call the number on your screen and pay....." was icing on the cake. It was and is disingenuous marketing hype. Or as I teach my kids...." Full price is inflated markup, Clearance prices are a profit and salvage is about fairness" :D 

SO there it is.... Can't deliver on time or in enough quantity so you stoke the fire with a 30% discount even before shipping in quantity. The discount creates a narrower divide between the lines increasing buyer confusion and dilemma. Yikes! "The price drop is, shall we say, brave. It risks infuriating the installed user base, especially those who have waited months for a camera only to receive one a short time before a price drop of $1000."Apple has been famously doing that with iPads recently   (This all plays in to my theory that PREPAYS are hidden R&D and Production Subsidies not a guarantee of a value added investment AT ALL ) This guy has it nailed....   One last point. DO YOU REALLY TRUST Black Magic as an enterprise now?  ;) So who wants to bet they'll either be bought out or go belly up  in the camera division? Then you'll be holding a $2,000 doorstop or book-end in three years .   I just want them to switch sensors to Super 35 or DX. APS-C so I can get the DOF I want. :)   Roll eyes....

Seriously? After all the times I've chimed in with my analyses, you're still baffled? I'm not going to repeat it. "I just find it bizarre that such simple things as headphone or microphone jacks can be the difference between a camera appealing to all the market or a magnitude less of it." And about segmentation. There are only two segments in a fickle market. Smart & Stupid.

Very impressive, but I note that the algorythm's causing a lot of edge softness. I guess that's the price you pay for overall stabilization.

Being cynical by nature and a stakeholder in the facebook "Counter Surveillance Initiative" I'm compelled to ask... Is the data stream unilateral or bilateral? If the latter- I'm not intrested.