zephyrnoid

Andrew. Don't be too hard on yourself. I belong to about 35 Forums in about 5 domains (over 10 years) and have seen this pattern of deceit a lot. I could write a book on it but not here. It's what I've dubbed the 'Snake Oil Shell Game' . It's given birth to many awesome products and obviously some trash but also to many. many scams. What folks need to understand is that it's NOT about customers at all. It's about how VC funding occurs in the New Millennium. Blame the dot.com era craziness on this (start ups sucking in vast sums of loose cash and going belly up rather than IPO) . In the old days, if you didn't deliver the goods, the banks would swoop in and take all your tools, property and remaing cash away from you. These days it's just a slap on the wrist a chapter 11 or 7 filing, a name or brand change and you were off to rip another community of suckers off. The operative culprit is always ......  PREORDERS Don't do them. EVER They are the trick that sucker you into financing someone else's posh lifestyle and retirement rather than yours.

Promises Promises. How The New Millennium revived the 'Snake Oil Shell Game' of 1800's America. ________________________ If I had a dollar for every technology 'Gee Wiz' product rollout delay or worse, for every scam (not saying BMPCC is a scam) that collects but either delivers YEARS late or never delivers at all- I'd be filthy rich. CASE: As a onetime Kickstarter aspirant (not a video related project) I studied the most compelling cases to learn the ropes pulled by the successful ones. Here's a typical example. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/midasmount/snapfocus-follow-focus-system Funded up to 500% of Goal Net = $111,000.  Funding Period ended June 2012 I went over to thier website yesterday July 23rd, 2013 to see how things were going. Here's a screengrab of thier homepage Here's the blurb incentive for the highest backers... Pledge $2,499 or more 4 backers THE DEALER PACK. Get 9 SnapFocus units that will arrive in time for you to sell them for the holiday season and one LIMITED EDITION SNAPFOCUS unit with an estimated September delivery date. Estimated delivery: Nov 2012 Nov 2012 - July 2013 = 8 months and counting!   So, how about thier paying customers? $111,000 is a pretty big stash for bicycle handlebars turned follow focus contraption don't you agree? You'd think a year would be enough to turn out some deliverables right? Have a read... http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/midasmount/snapfocus-follow-focus-system/comments Now. In all fairness, BMPC looks like an eminent deliverable,  but will it astound or be a flat  or incomplete delivery? Oh gosh. No 4K yet. Will they then say, oh gosh! No lens yet how about a pinehole instead? Kidding :D   I belong to about 35 Forums in about 5 domains (over 10 years) and have seen this pattern of deceit a lot. I could write a book on it but not here. It's what I've dubbed the 'Snake Oil Shell Game' . It's given birth to many awesome products and obviously some trash but also to many. many scams. What folks need to understand is that it's NOT about customers at all. It's about how VC funding occurs in the New Millennium. Blame the dot.com era craziness on this (start ups sucking in vast sums of loose cash and going belly up rather than IPO) . In the old days, if you didn't deliver the goods, the banks would swoop in and take all your tools, property and remaing cash away from you. These days it's just a slap on the wrist a chapter 11 or 7 filing, a name or brand change and you were off to rip another community of suckers off. The operative culprit is always ......  PREORDERS Don't do them. EVER They are the trick that sucker you into financing someone else's posh lifestyle and retirement rather than yours.    There is community of people out there that have no respect for paying customers and it takes teeth pulling to get them to poney up refunds or end products. Your best bet is to stand in line for products that are already shipping. You KNOW you don't really need 'IT' ASAP, you are just feeding a psychological addiction to über-cool toys so why not play the waiting game to YOUR advantage not thiers.

I practically live at PTO. You do realise that Sony discovered that RED had bamboozled them. It was actualyl RED that stole the Sony tech. Oops!

Just keep buying the betas gentlemen. I need my Panasonic, Canon, Nikon, Olympus stocks to gain value ;)

Live signal out via HDMI ? Clean Uncompressed 4:2:2 stream for external capture via Atomos Ninja2? A bottom insertable card ??? Backsteping bitrate and other capture features from GH3. Why do we need another camera in-between two INBETWEEN cameras? Yea. SERIOUSLY that's product devolution. But the price is incredible for entry level or even a whole bunch of pro applications. can you spell W E D D I N G S ? I'd buy three and hand them to three shooters to cover an event multicam for way less than others are spending on just one camera. Panasonic should have hired me but they chose not to ;)

So based on my incessant cynicism... we are still in 'Beta' mode. Incremental improvements and some feature losses from one model on to the next. Nice to know so many can afford 'collections' of beta cameras ;)

Allow Me To Suggest a New Forum Blog Feature - Retrospective Synopsis Every 6 months, the site owner or a designated MOD collects all the 'Gripes' that attend a product release and then line by line comments on Firmware or other improvement status. This would be a boon to newbies on a product since they would just jump to the latest Retrospective Synopsis to get a clear picture of where the product improvements are. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– EXAMPLE : Panasonic GH3 The Original Gripe List: 1) Stop screen info from disappearing (Unresolved) 2) Focus Peaking (Unresolved) 3) Zebras (Unresolved) 4) Improved Wifi video features and reduced latency (even just basic full control via wifi would be great) (Unresolved during filming) 5) pro picture profiles for video. Optimized for flattest reasonable 8 bit profile (Not available) 6) Panasonic official bitrate improvement on All-I modes. HQ mode warning for certain cards. 150mb/s bitrate. Let the codec breath for pro users. Lots of warnings but make it standard.(Not available) 7) poorly designed record button (Fixed in Stone) 8) 'Jittering' footage at CU at 45º down with Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm f/2.8 Asph (Resolved via firmware upgrade) *I assume that we are still only getting 4:2:0 export over HDMI ?

I dissagree. Having lived deep in the trenches of IT and 'New Media' from 1995 onward, I can tell you that ALL the tech companies 'cross polinate' and they all study each other as well as both the consumer and professional market place for profit and R&D opportunities. As a lightweight insider I can tell you that RED absolutely adjusted thier produict roll out strategies based on a new paradigm of Pro capable Hybrid DSLRs ( and now some mirrosless cams) . They also stole IP from Sony ( which led to litigation/negotiation stages) . The mainstreamers like Sony/Nikon/Canon have taken cues from RED and they are all cross polinating thier R&D intitiatives ( haven't you noticed?) The thing to remember is that there are very few cameras that are actually mature enough to hammer our the content for 5 years or more without some upgrades. The Consumer market is in huge flux and that's the key difference between companies' product lines is wether they are in fast track Kaizen or Long term Kaizen.

You know better than to post incomparble clips. Side Bu Side Man. SIDE BY SIDE. Thank You.

Pshaw! I've been monitoring the 'skunkworks' in MANY domains and they all over promise and under-deliver. The fundamental problem is how these projects are funded and the ethics involved in pre-promoting them before the R&D is actually finished. The fundamental mechanism involves the same key factors every time: 1) Tapping into known end user desires and wish lists 2) Appealing to prospective customers' dependence on 'Cool Factor'. 3) Teasing with slick prototypes and renderings 4) Apeasing & Teasing with seeded prototypes 5) Threatening scarcity with 'Limited  Serialized Editions' 6) Resting on laurels once first round funding is in hand 7) Delaying releases with lame excuses 8) Repeat # 7) 9) Releasing a 'Public Beta' that's full of bugs 10) Offering firmware upgrades for life 11 ) Resting on laurels once second round funding is in hand Do you notice anything? This is the merchandising process for software products :lol:

"I feel compelled to join the dots and it doesn’t paint a pretty picture. If Blackmagic don’t know how many cameras they are able to make and when, that points to not having a predictable and steady production chain going." So I thought that the BMCC was supposed to be "Camera of the Year" for 2012 What Happened Andrew? I'd hate to say that BlackMagic is following in the footsteps of RED Scarlet. A disasterous roll out.   Worse still, they may end up shipping but will not be able to sustain after-market support or timely product refresh's. Is this the second most hyped up roll out in HD camera history to date? Perhaps BlackMagic ought to sell out to a real camera maker and stick to recorders and drives.

Can you share some samples. "Cinema" is a rather ambiguous term.

5D3+RAW looks interesting but what are the downsides please? What we now need is a more convergent camera:A D7100GH3BMCC as it were ;) let's call it... the  PerfectCam® Clean HDMI out for 4:2:2 uncompressed external recording and live view over a remote monitor - D7100 The nice 50MBS bitrate options and 60fps/1080p of the GH3 The lovely quiet mirrorless functionality of the GH3/ BMCC The virtually moire free images of the D7100 The ideal DX crop of 1.5, again of the D7100 (smarter lens choices) The better DR of the D7100 or best DR of the BMCC. In camera IS of the Olympus Constant aperture as in latest gen Lumix lenses Not sure what real-word record times in one clip are these days. But I need 30 minutes at least and preferably longer. for an extra $1000 give it all to us in something that is not a DSLR form factor.PLEASE! Net cost body less lenses- how about $2000 even ? Thanks    

“Everything was perfect on paper” Duh! Todays audience are idiots . Next up. Idiot filmakers What do you expect? You should have done the homework first. We are at the cusp of a cultural meltdown

Good news. Esp since I've jumped ship from M43 to DX format (primarily for the easier wides and better bokeh) But no comment from me on a DSLR/Mirrorless would be complete without my customary rant.... Why not ditch the DSLR form-factor dammit? We don't need it anymore. I want the the real deal. A BOX for smart control arrays. There. Now I can dream of RAW out of the D7100  

Excellent summary and update. I do share Vince's skepticism with regard to heat damage over a long period of time. Heat & Dust are the arch enemies of Digital Video and we know that 4K processing in a small container is going to result in parts decay eventually. Then again, this update is really for the installed base. I wouldn't run out and buy this camera just for 4K ( knowing that in the horse race, first out the gate, only sets the pace). No doubt, Nikon ( last out the gate) and the others are looking closely. I'm still hopeful for that 4KRaw 10Bit in a smaller box but NOT a DSLR. Hell may freeze over before I get that wish fullfilled.

Actually I would not be surprised but I've been doing it with film (1970-1990) and this stupid point and shoot of mine for as long as I can remember and certainly since I met HCB ;) The video is given a bow because as you point out, it's very specifically intended as a Leica killer.And considering the enhanced ROI these days, the price-point is awesome. I'm guessing Sony is send us this message.... "Imagine if the video was where it needs to be" One of these days ONE of the Big 4 is going to hit the jackpot. The big questions is WHEN ;)? I'd certainly love to replace my P&S with this even if just for stills. Just need to know how much manual control I'd have. - Does it use interchangeable lenses or is it fixed? - PC/Sync or other sync for external flash? - It would be a gas to shoot some ads with it.  

"I’ve been looking for a stealthy street camera with that Henri Cartier Bresson magic for a long time and now I finally have it, without resorting to the expense of a Leica system." He would have found that funny. Yes. He shot with a Leica M3 Single stroke, but his magic was never so much camera related. :D

I'll be brief. Fabulous review and samples! The camera seems miraculous indeed. Unfortunately, the age of glossy print mags is wanning, so the over-sampling ( for screen) while nice to have, is too late to matter much from the distribution point of view unless you're crazy, like me, and shoot ads with a point and shoot . As Video continues to overtake print as the medium of choice for imersive visual narrative, THAT will mater most moving forward. Obviously, pixel peepers will delight in the mural size gallery possibilities. I wish them luck in producing murals that sell if that matters. I wouldn't mind spending a day shooting jewelry and watches with this. how close do the lenses focus and do they offer an apo/macro?

All they need to do ... is offer sll the goodies we crave in a rig-friendly casing, and finally, retire the tired DSLR form-factor. Great report. Thanks

Good balanced review. Thanks. All eyes on Nikon and BlackMagic moving forward...

NIce. Is there some syntactic confusion here? "Rolling shutter is minimal on the FS700 though it cannot compete with a global shutter like on the Blackmagic. However that does hurt low light and dynamic range quite significantly." I assume you mean on the Blackmagic?

Great Update Thanks So I guess I want a higher frame rate global shutter version with 2.5K vs 4K, unless future designs can deliver higher frame rates at 4K and at $4K... which no doubt is just a matetr of time and hard work in the labs.