Emanuel

You're also forgetting something most important if not from ages, at least since when a camera left the shoulders of the operator (considering a camera had left a tripod for first time some time earlier): steady hands!

Right. But, no need! Go on post... ;-)

Good Joke, Ebrahim! ;-)

In fact title should have been written in the reversal order... ; )

This is not usual darwinfish anamorphic stuff * * but something particularly addressed to Andrew who had originally posted on Vimeo some clip based on infamous settings -> severe aliasing, of course... : ) here you have guys:

http://www.sonyalphashooter.com/a7rii-first-impressions/ http://eriknaso.com/2015/08/25/first-day-with-the-sony-a7rii-shooting-internal-4k-ibis-slog2-test/

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=V9CYFwUDLbM

Funny, if they would crap their product... and some group of geeks would develop some crazy hack to lift their limits, then would be a terrific steal...? : D C'mon, where do you find the best tech in the smallest 8K/4K package (yes, price included) ??! Let's get a fair perspective on here, give a break to your (d)efective nonsense : ) With or without they had somehow clippled their hot stove in form of mirrorless camera only for SELLING their higher price range, they've offered the best they can in a REALLY portable capture device -- add external recording and stop whining about your VIRTUAL sex life with a girl you're not even thinking to date, go figure to live with! : D (BTW, I didn't buy it yet, I had just placed a pre-order so to comply now, this camera will stand by me and letting run 'n gun no matters how many quirks we're still reading in these pages... ...only because you'd actually and merely love to pay it for a perfect angel just like heaven!) | | | | | V

I don't think it is confusing, Andrew is right on his comment but you too when you say the result is variable depending on the circumstances. As everything in life. Camera requires an operator. ;-)

First off... Actually, someone else wrote in these boards anything I can quote now: something like the technology in this field has reached a point where any improvement is incremental. I fully agree. So? Lowlight performance and 4K in-camera we've already had, either on a7S or GH4/NX1 only to mention the best cases IMO. The point is to have both in the same capture device. Add that IBIS hand, despite DIS, OIS or any external accessory, with no mention of post much better than the infamous jittering... : D + 42MP for large prints photography and you'll have the whole package spread in pieces with the remaining offer out there. Is it worthy of 3x times as you say? It depends on what you'll be doing with the camera for sure.

Right, as already said before. And the work of the shooter is to beware of all flaws of his/her tool. That's the whole point to argue here. Hence my request on samples, but fair examples. Not opinion making based on what? Our own needs don't serve the needs of the other one. Moreover, lots of criticism I've ever seen is based on subjective and personal decisions to make or not make that investment. Without mention any other reason to not subscribe this or that business offer. Because all in life is business. Even private posting in public boards can hide or second any sort of POV, not shared with the interest or pocket of other potential buyer/user. Let's get some objectivity over here. So, still waiting for samples from real world. Evidence. Not mere words easily typed on web. On workarounds, their evaluation are part of our decision and shooter's work when decides to go ahead. Therefore, my plead on showing me the skeleton. Not valid to hide it in the cabinet!

Hard to find one. But, it can be the less lousy one, sure : D Once we should always beware of all the flaws. Normally, no hard to find them. The whole thing is to satisfy certain needs. So, can you point me out all the flaws you've found which can't be possible to find a workaround? I mean it seriously. When there's aliasing / moiré for example. Certain question should pop up immediately as mandatory: detail / sharpness settings? Or it can't be considered acceptable to find the worse settings in order to get a certain outcome. As same as saying AF is hit and miss when Sony is trying to sell their own glass instead. Just an example. Like using the wrong setup and complain about flickering as for instance.

More skeptical now, why? Let me take a look on any samples which made you more skeptical now. I am interested to check any flaw of this camera. As far as I know, overheating is the one who could be a deal breaker if you're all in for long shots without external recording. Other than that? PS: I even must say, FF has been a good surprise on such MP department... But, I am receptive to listen you guys. Andrew's arguments haven't convinced me not even a bit, as he already knows BTW :-)

It is quite possible, some ingredients will work better than others...

OK, I had hinted it when you wrote on avsforums: "I haven't seen the results on a big screen yet. But if it truly isn't any quality loss it pretty much assassinated the A7rii.". And when one month ago you posted on YouTube your a7II sample, I suppose, anticipating the upcoming a7RII you tagged in your youtube (promising) IBIS test: "This is a real world test and focal length comparison of the Sony IBIS with vintage glass. Everything is handheld with no rig. The three axis IBIS you get with manual glass is imo really good."; "And a better price.. oh wait ; ) Im sure it will be cool. Im a tiny bit, lets say, interested in what the high mp will do to the video but Im sure it will look awesome. Will keep a close eye n your tests. Have you preordered?". https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=rR_LTsRT6JU What has it changed since then...? On both cameras stabilization tag, I don't think NX1's DIS beats a7RII's IBIS. Camera operator skills will overcome any extra help. In any case, there's shooting life beyond a stabilized outcome with or without steady acquisition in-camera, on post, via any external accessory or even coordinating any or all of them when needed. PS: I guess this test brought to the discussion (with the usual drawbacks depending on the subject, of course) speaks per se a bit on topic...

I don't even follow you why such overstatement on "quality loss" on IBIS when you seemed so hopeful on the new a7RII a month ago. What have you changed your mind? To not buy the new Sony toy? Where are those samples with 'quality loss'? The typical Sony's IBIS 'jitters'? Because of that?

Along this thread, there are several points to know (that post is only one of them) : a) your troll thread or troll thread's title as benefit of doubt, once this can actually bring a good discussion on topic -- only because of that, other than that, your words posted here or outside where you use words such as "kill", "assassinated" seems more from someone to justify an option to not buy, to not use, whatever you feel when you've already spent your money in any piece of gear you don't wanna see outdated, than something you really believe or are perfectly sure of it; b) overstatement on your focus such as stabilization in-camera is mandatory when we should all know it is not -- your examples of this post now don't fit and you have several other routes in order to get it and post-production is mere part of the process of filmmaking where footage is normally to be worked out not necessarily to be 100% fixed all the way long, it is not to be seen as tricky illusionism neither to be allergic to : ) c) you've even proved in that clip you posted -- I presume from an a7II if I am not wrong, IBIS can work perfectly fine for your needs and fitting to prove the pudding in the end, as same as a Ferrari won't be of any help if you're riding in a town where your speed limit was already reached.

I guess there'll always be limitations as already posted for sure, but this last DIS/OIS combo example seems to me much cleaner than any other posted previously.

(Exodus 21:24) eye for eye, tooth for tooth... Stabilized on After Effects... : D

Stabilization can surely be helpful to any low budget setup. I still remember the feeling when (in the early 90s) Steadicam Jr popped up or Sony came with Optical Stabilization in their consumer line! The matter is the same that OP's sample posted by his hand can prove. Otherwise, the devil isn't always in the details. At times, the forest is bigger than the tree. Honestly, I can't see where "lots of quality loss" is when all jitters can be properly replaced in After Effects, as for instance.

LOL Right. Especially when After Effects makes wonders! (Sorry Mattias!) Well, here's an Sony's IBIS sample with "lots of quality loss" ; ) PS: Adding information on that sample's OP... Mattias Burling ;-)

I've seen Olympus' IBIS to beat Sony (but no 4K, no 8K), Samsung's AF to beat Sony (but again, something to not offer: 8K for large prints in this case). The whole point IMO is the fact no camera is better than the other but, that camera is better than the other for your needs. My whole beef, actually.