pss

the overall ratings of cameras are based on how well they perform in different areas, so one camera might not be the best in any criteria but might still be the "best" all around...the A7RII is a pretty good example.... as for the helium ratings, i believe they are based on raw capture off the sensor, the problem is that all red files are always compressed....the weapon helium probably starts at 5:1 and it goes up from there (depending on cropping, fps,...) this makes a big difference.... in all fairness, anyone can go to red.com, download raw files (in different sizes and compression rates) as well as their raw converter...all this is free and allows for great pixel peeping.... i used to own a red epic, i did pull stills fro print from that sensor and this helium is miles ahead of the MX and dragon sensors, especially when it comes to noise/high ISO performance.....but stills pulled from the available helium test files are nowhere near stills from A7RII....detail, noise, even DR and color..... but all this is still pretty amazing and definitely a sign of things to come....

well i guess we have an official answer now: the Vlog is optimized for HDMI 10bit out.... http://blog.planet5d.com/2015/11/from-leica-directly-heres-whats-happening-with-l-log-on-the-sl/ i would still love to see LUT support.....but i guess if they assume that nobody will use the Vlog with internal recording, it makes sense to not provide internal LUT support, the external recorder will most have LUTs anyway.... now if we could only have internal 10bit...hmm....the new sd II cards R/W 290mb/sec should be fast enough? and the processor (maestro II) can do it in the S (which is listed as having internal 10bit)....no clue what format/compression...

i saw the "problem" the second i switched log on in camera....so flat, it takes some getting used to get focus....BUT i found the files i shot graded really well...great color, great tones, no banding at all.....i understand what the histogram looks like and i agree there as well that it does not look right at all...but again, to me, as long as the final graded clip looks great? i think the real problem is that there is no LUT implementation of any kind in camera....at least in the finder...it would make exposure and focus a lot easier.... there is also this test on news shooter: http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/11/03/test-video-leica-sl-4k-camera-tested-by-tim-arasheban-and-cinoflex/

i heard really good things about the 10bit HDMI output to a 7Q+ and got a chance to play with the SL and shoot some clips....my experience is very different then what is described in this review....i found the internal (4k non log) video horrible but then i haven't shot anything non log in a long time, i did (and do) find the internal vlog pretty amazing....yes, it is really flat but as far as i can tell it holds up better then (let's say) internal A7(r,s)II slog in grading....color especially is really nice and at lowest iso the files are some of the cleanest i have ever seen...i can't judge higher iso video but for the stills, leica chose to approach the issue by mostly removing chroma noise, so noise looks really nice (organic, grain like)....but regardless it is not A7SII performance.... i haven't had a chance to check out any external recording but 10 bit pro res 422 should be another step up from the internal 8bit 420 which is was already very impressed with.... there is another look at the camera:http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/11/03/test-video-leica-sl-4k-camera-tested-by-tim-arasheban-and-cinoflex/ i only had limited time to set the camera up and had to shoot without histogram, it was a little difficult to judge exposure because the log is so flat....shooting with an external recorder and using a LUT would make this easier, i don't believe leica has built in LUT support (yet?)....i also had a call in to find out how and what the histogram actually shows when shooting log but have not received an answer.....

[quote name='Chriss' timestamp='1347526295' post='17879'] From the first look- i think the Nikon has done much better. Better even than the D800. [/quote] the sensor in the D800 is a sony sensor...i am assuming that the D600 has the same sensor as the A99....

[quote name='Skyler' timestamp='1347390256' post='17782'] Almost funny but not useful here :P. With technology, there is always better coming. Tell me something I don't know. Thanks [/quote] which is exactly what he is saying....

yes...but wait for the one coming out in 18 months! sorry....i can't say anymore....just wait....it will blow the one coming in 9 months completely out of the water......trust me....

why is everybody so upset about the battery? red: handle to hold the batteries and 3 batteries (to get to the same 90min the BMC runs) is 950+195+195+195....half the price of the BMC... yes it would be nice if there was a little door and one could simply swap....would add size, and price to the BMC package.... 90 min really isn't so bad...and it seems like everybody will rig this up anyway... this really should be looked at as a bonus....you will never run out of power during a shoot! when the batterypack dies, just put in another one, the camera will keep rolling!

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1346921577' post='17432'] Don't know if this was posted somewhere else already, cause I don't read everything: [media]http://vimeo.com/48861294[/media] What do you think? My 2 cents: Silly story, some rolling shutter, apparently no noise problems. [/quote] saw this before....hard to tell anything from this....i can only look at this as a complete waste of time and money....light is horrible, flat, there is no mood, unless you like latin soap, every shot and set up looks unbelievably unimaginative to me, i feel bad about the actors, the story? is....what?why? who decided to do this and get people involved, was anyone paid to do this...i don't get it at all.... although i really don't like the grading either (again, no mood, no tone, nothing....) the image looks clean and crisp.... this could have been shot available light, handheld with a 5DII and it should have looked better....

this looks like early Phase DMF backs, like the P20 or leica m8 to me....no AA filter will give you more detail, a much sharper image but sometimes all this come back in horrible (sometimes unfixable) moire in certain fabrics or tight structures....i have to say that it sometimes was a problem when shooting still catalog under studio flash lights.....i do not have a frame of it showing up outside, although i have seen samples online (think the screen of the window air conditioner in a window on a wide shot...zoomed in at 100%)..... i doubt anyone will ever see this anywhere with motion and like people have said here, it will only get better with better raw conversions and/or special removal tools..... not a big deal at all....cannot be compared with the stuff you see with the 5dII (which ironically NEVER shows any trance of moire in stills because of it's strong AA filter....)

the best thing about thunderbolt is that you are not stuck with internal HDs and cards anymore...there is so much bandwidth that it makes more sense to just get external enclosures (especially with ssd prices coming down) and bypass the internal HD....ram is getting cheaper as well.... buy the latest and greatest iMac, sell yours on ebay, get thunderbolt externals and sell/upgrade to the newest/best imac next year again....i have done this for the last 3 years and because of mac high resale (and apple care) i never lose more then a couple of 100$ but it gets me the fastest tool every year... imac 2011 i7 3.4 32ram, seagate goflex TB 256ssd, pegasus 12TB, soon lacie little big disk TB and probably a sonnet tech pci expansion box...

[quote name='bradleyg5' timestamp='1346660617' post='17207'] 2.5k is not as impressive when you say [font=arial, sans-serif]2432 x 1366 vs 1920x1080. Really doesn't give you a ton of room to crop, would be useful for stabilization but you certainly not going to significantly recompose a shot with 512x284 pixels of headroom.[/font] [font=arial, sans-serif]Honestly I think shooting in RAW would limit creativity more than it would enable it, you'd need to have a much tighter and scripted workflow and you couldn't be overshooting or experimenting too much.[/font] [font=arial, sans-serif]I think this camera would be great for seasoned independent producers looking to take a shot on a well funded projects, but I think it would be an absolute disaster to use on a no budget or micro budget flick. Most people would be much better served by the flexibility of a DSLR, the softness is not an issue unless you are trying to replicate a HBO series like Game of Thrones.[/font] [/quote] well i guess the alexa does not even have the extra pixels, so 2.5k is better then 1080HD...it's not 4k of course but what is? and if you consider a 2.5k raw workflow to stop you from working creatively, i guess the EPIC wouldn't let you leave your room.... i just don't understand why 2.5k and raw is all of a sudden a problem?! just don't use it! shoot prores and be happy! if you don't see the advantage over a 7d, go with that! regardless: a great story well shot will be more interesting coming from an iPhone....

[quote name='Bruno' timestamp='1346607747' post='17175'] Price and specs is not all there is to a camera, in the end it's all about the image they produce AND the usability. Do you really think any serious DP on a high budget film would go with a camera that's limited to EF lenses??? Some of the best DPs of our times have only made the switch to digital after the Alexa came out, and this was even before it shot raw. The RED never convinced them, but the Alexa images they saw up on the screen together with its on set workflow finally did it for them. Don't compare apples to oranges. [/quote] there are plenty of zeiss and canon cine lenses available, but you are absolutely right, on a big budget shoot the question if the camera costs 3000 to buy or 3000 to rent for a couple of days makes no difference....image quality and workflow (and of course lenses) are much more important....i would not be surprised if the BMCC will be taken seriously keeping these consideration in mind....

[quote name='Xiong' timestamp='1346536622' post='17124'] Any chance you can elaborate? I like to know more about what you cam across using the scarlet. [/quote] a couple of things turned me off the scarlet and made me cancel my order... crop factor....the red sensor gets smaller and smaller as you shoot higher frame rates....that concept is just strange to me but it goes right along with the second issue i have with red....the higher and higher raw compression they use to get higher frame rates....a lot of the footage from the scarlet would have been highly compressed from a small portion of the sensor.....since i want to use the stills as well this just would not work for me..... don't get me wrong: the EPIC is great and the stills are great as well....yes, i am not too happy with the raw compression there either, but 5k makes up for a lot.... another issue: a proprietary raw format locks you in with RED....the BMCC uses an open standard and from the first day on i have several options to find whatever works best for me..... another big issue to be honest: price....i ordered the brain for 10000? and to be able to start shooting would have been another (realistically) 10000....selling SSDs and batteries with such a huge markup leaves a bad taste.... i can get 2 BMCCs, more then enough SSDs and some other gear for the price of a scarlet body (sorry, brain)...and i am pretty sure from what i have seen comparing raw files from both, the BMCC wins for a beautiful and detailed image.... the scarlet is a perfect back up for someone already invested in red....i do not see why anyone would get a scarlet over a BMCC right now....

again, coming from a still background....there are jpegs and there are jpegs....set the compression to 7, choose sRGB and don't even start to think about touching the file in any way....set it to 12 and you get a little more to work with.... a 16bit TIFF is a LOT bigger then the raw file it was baked out of but still does not have the same latitude.... RED is funny because red code compression gets pretty strong (even if it is still technically raw) and when you are shooting 1:10 i would hardly compare that raw file to even a 1:3 compression.... so raw is not always the same quality as raw.....cinema DNG is as good as it gets...as pure as it gets....all the data is there.... i have no experience with cineform raw but if it compresses the file in any way you are losing stuff...mostly color (which in turn makes artifacts, moire, ugly stuff....) because somewhere along the way something will have to be "made up" somehow.... i have only played with the available DNGs out there (the pool scene and such)...and i only worked with the raw files in (in my case) in aperture, added my adjustments (graded) and imported the still files into fcpx as jpegs and still got the best looking video (color, detail,...) i have ever seen....maybe this is totally wrong, i will definitely get into resolve to check it out when i actually have the camera and a little time...but so far this completely blows any capture device providing any compressed media completely out of the water.... btw: i was also VERY close to getting the scarlet and went through the same thing there...looking at the raw files, trying to figure out how to use them....all i can say is that i am very happy that there was something in those files that just did not work for me...

i honestly haven't thought about how much more disk space i will end up using....there is no question for me that i will shoot raw only...raids are getting cheaper and online backup is cheap and unlimited (and upload speeds on fios are great).... yes it will end up eating TBs like crazy.... on the other hand a project ending up being 30 min long (15TB raw footage) should be worth 1000$ (5x3TB at 200$) in storage (back up online).... or shoot prores or something else...but honestly i would get the fs100 or fs700 for all non raw shooting....the BMCC compressed modes might still be a tiny bit better looking but the lens options and other features (fs700 slo-mo!!!!, 4k option!) would make the sonys my first choice for anything other then raw shooting.....

i am a still shooter and so i find the discussion funny....raw is a no brainer....yes, it has drawbacks but the advantages more then make up for it....afaik the only people shooting jpegs are journalists whi have to beam the image back as the event is still going on...everybody else shoots raw....for good reason... one of the reasons the red is so popular in commercial settings is that each raw frame is also a possible still photo for advertising/promotional/web/who knows....add to this that by taking one (or more) frames out, the look of the still and moving image is the same...huge advantage.... the BMCC should provide the same advantage...the frames aren't 4K (and not having EPIC frame rates slows down exposure times which makes each frame less crisp)...but for many commercial applications, especially web material, each raw video shoot will also provide 1000s of perfectly useable stills.... for still shooters this is also a much easier transition into grading....we are all used to using adobe or other raw developers to make the adjustments.....now we can stay within lightroom or aperture (or even phase one?) to get what we are used to from our stills...not to mention being able to use every single PS plug in....

i actually adjusted the raw dngs in aperture and accessed the adjusted files directly within fcpx.... these files look so much better (organic but still crisp without a hint of digital) then anything i have seen from sony (fs100, next, a77) canon (5dII, 5Diii) and nikon (d800)....i had the BMCC on order but cancelled when the fs700 was announced.... the BMCC at 30fps with twixtor should make (reasonable 50/60fps) slo-mo no problem.... i think the still files are even good enough for web and some limited print work (i am mostly a still guy....) res'd up a vertical crop in genuine fractals and a 8x10 might be possible... i was looking at the scarlet for the same reasons....these files are much better... for a first gen product...at this price point...insane...