ScreensPro

It's interesting and i think there will be some amazing bargains to be had on this 1st generation cinema gear. F35, RED One... maybe even Alexa in a few years. F3, FS100, AF100, Scarlet are following suit too.... I saw an F3 with 3 PL Lenses go for less than £4k!   I'd guess that the depreciation will slow down with the next generation though.... How much better can a camera get than the F55? More than 14 stops, not many shots need it.... More than 4K.... I'm not even convinced 4K will take off for anything more than cinema films and maybe sports.... ISO higher than 64,000 or whatever crazy spec the F55 has? Faster than 120fps? Higher than 16 bits?   The audio world showed that increases in digital technology tailed off and the price did too. There was nowhere left to go with the high end. I think we are reaching that point with video now. Which is great news for us!

It's obviously resolving way more than the 1080p crop mode.   I'm sticking with my initial opinion.... 3.2K about the same as the RED-1M   I worked with a hell of alot of R1-M footage.... resolution wise, it looks very much the same. Maybe after post work, you could squeeze a little more out of the raw but "out of the box", looks about the same.

If they bring out the sharp S35 crop mode and clean HDMI, we can finally put an end to this "Canon owe the indie guys" stuff?

Yep, the BMCC resolves more, mainly down to it's lack of an optical low pass filter... The trade off is moire/aliasing.   My intial point is though... and you seem to agree, it is roughly resolving around 70%-75% of the sensor... which is fairly standard for a CMOS sensor. Remove the optical low pass filter and you'd probably get that extra 5%-10% like the BMCC (though raw will help get the most resolution).   The 550D is clearly not resolving anywhere close to 70%-75% though. Which was my initial and only point :-)

btw - I sold my Canon and my only camera currently is a GH2 and a go-pro3.   As much as i might sound like one, i am not a Canon fanboy and couldn't care less who makes the camera i shoot with. My only issue is with people thinking that Canon have short changed them.... They have offered you usable options from $500 to $30,000.   If your budget is under $3k.... then expect to make sacrifices (BMCC included).

  The 5DIII is fine for any low budget/indie filmmaker. The fact that you folks lust after 4K, raw, 10bit, 15 stops DR etc is not Canon's fault or Canon's problem.   A filmmaker can easily tell his story with a 5DIII... and i would choose it hands down over any of the other DSLRs, bar the 1D-X and 1D-C   D800... aliasing/moire hell. D4 - as above, but softer. GH2... Shitty highlights and DR. Shitty low light. GH3... Not readily available. Sony's DSLRs.... None of them have a look that is nicer than Canon's.

So you think this image only has about 1000 vertical lines? Look at the "Flanuer" building which is fully in focus.... That is easily resolving over 3K of real resolution and it's unlikely Phil added any sharpness in post.   http://philipbloom.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/MASTER-4k_NEUTRAL1.jpeg   If that looks like 1080p to you, I'd worry about your eye sight

My point is, I can't shoot anything with a pre-order receipt. The day they are out of backorder and available to buy, we can discuss it, along with all the other available cameras, as a viable shooting option.   To hold it up against released cameras is a tad unfair though.   Guy 1 - "Well, the $3k BMCC i have on backorder has a better codec than your $12k 1-DC" Guy 2 - "Shut up for a minute, i'm trying to film a scene with my 1-DC"

  Yea?.... Can you show me where, i'm still on backorder.   As good as the BMCC is, it shouldn't be spoken about in the same breath as a shipping camera that you can walk into B&H and buy.

  No one was talking about 8bit, compressed or anything else.... The conversation was about resolution.   The 4K on the 1-DC is far better than the 1080p on the 550D in terms of stated resolution versus actual resolution. The 550D is spitting out about 60% of the quoted resolution, whereas the 1D-C looks to be spitting out about 80% of the quoted resolution.

  Try reading what I posted..... Firstly we are talking solely about resolution here.... Secondly, i'm talking about the R1-M , eg, not the MX, which is a 4.5k file... as i'm sure you are aware.

Has anyone downloaded the 4K from Philip's site?..... It is very impressive, in my opinion.   The comparison of 550D's 1080p and 1D-C's 4k seem completely untrue.   To my eyes, 1D-C's 4K is very much at a level of RED-One-M

It depends how brave Canon want to be.   They've obviously found the magic formula for downscaling from a high-rez sensor.... They could trickle it down to their cheaper cameras and pretty much kill off any threat from Nikon/Panasonic etc for video work (for now).   But then people would be far less likely to buy their flagship models like the C300 and the 1D-C.   Canon are pretty conservative, so i imagine it will not happen for a while yet. Maybe, just maybe, they will allow it in the 1D-X and 5DIII

  By who exactly?   It would have to be some really dog shit, over compressed 4K .... Maybe Go Pro v Alexa.....   If you have two decent cameras though... one 4K and one 2K.... You WILL get better resolution from the 4K.... No amount of "sweetening" will change that.

You people do realise that the 4K in that image Andrew posted was scaled and export to 1080p? Of course they are gonna look similar, when blown up, as long as the 1080p version is good (which it is, the s35 crop mode is great).   I'm sure the 4K image holds far more resolution though. Download the 4K files on Philip's site... They have plenty of resolution, probably 3.2k after debayering, like the early Red One.   Even the BMCC is not spitting out 2.4K resolution.... it has to be debayered.

  Very interesting, if true.   GH2 resolution, or more, but with Canon's colour and extra DR.

  I agree, if the camera was built from the ground up. It could easily be done.   The 1D-C was clearly rushed to market, probably on request by Hollywood guys buying up the C500.

Unfortunately, adding 10bit is not gonna happen on the current 1D-C (unless Canon get drunk and offer a Jim Jannard style circuit board replacement)   If the banding is too much to work with, i'd take it back to the store.   If you are loving the images though, i'm sure you will find ways to avoid banding or fix in post.

One aspect of the 4K stock idea is that the 1D-C will really shine is it's abilty to get in stealthy places or when you don't want idiots waving at the camera.

  Nowhere as much as dealing with raw, 4k, 14bit uncompressed files would.   Like it or not, the 1-DC is a crash cam for Hollywood. Even adding room for an SSD slot would add too much real estate.

I'm no technical expert... but my guess is that most DSLRs have two internal pathways.   raw, 14 bit... off the sensor, buffered, then onto the card.   jpg, 8bit... off the sensor, buffered, processed, then onto the card.   The pathway is all 8bit once it is in the processing board. It would cost more to make the internal processing 10bit... this is not just some firmware fix or bottleneck at the writing to card part. It needs to be 10bit the moment it is processed off the sensor.   Would still shooters pay extra for 10bit video?.... No, they would be up in arms.   Obviously, you could argue that the 1D-C is aimed at videographers and should have had new boards that have a 10 bit path.... and I would agree.... But I think they rushed it to market and used the 8 bit circuitry that is already in place.

Let's take it, point by point.   Stock - 4K stock has been shot for years by RED users. It is a niche market and there are no major signs that 4K will make inroads into the home. Sony and Co tried to push 3D and failed, 4K could go the same way.   Leasing - This is a decision people should look long and hard at, regardless of the camera. If you have a solid plan to cover your repayments, then it is a decent option.   Sell your other camera gear - Not everyone is sat on a 5DIII, if you have been shooting on a GH2, it could be better to keep it as a B cam.   Wait - Probably the best bit of advice... If you don't need 4K, forget about the 1-DC   Charge more - Easier said than done. If your client doesn't want or need 4K, you can't charge more because you have a 4K camera. In today's financial climate, 4K is a hard sell, especially for things like music videos and commercials.

  That's the choice/burden of any freelancer or business owner though.   I could kick back and earn a fat salary working on other people's projects and ideas.... and sometimes i have to, to pay the bills.... But generally i work on my own projects and accept that i will have to spend valuable time doing business stuff. The payoff is worth it though, as i get to make artistic choices without dealing with a client.   On the initial topic, if i were to get in debt over a camera, the 1D-C would be low on the list. I admire the camera, but it is about the least future proof 4K camera that will ever be released.   The F5 seems like the better bet and the system could be built up slowly, hiring the 4K recorder when needed, then buying it when 4K is mainstream. F55 even more so, if you have the business model to do it.

Just a note on stock...... 4K stock is pretty plentiful. All the usual money shots will have been shot a hundred times over on RED One and Epic/Scarlet (and timelapse), so you are left with niche locations and studio shots that likely wont make you rich quick.   It is never a bad thing to collect footage in the highest quality/resolution you can... But unless you know the video stock industry well and know what sells.... I wouldn't think of it as a good income source.

It is a bit bulky, but considering the way the internet exploded when the Red One went to $4k, this F3 price should be hailed. It is easily small enough for a 1 man rig.   10bit, 4:4:4, S-Log is pretty amazing, and the F3 (S-Log) gets 13-14 stops and can be graded very heavily... Other than the ISO and white balance, it is very much like raw.