douglaurent

​of course the difference is extremely visible in this technical test, which by the way had to be done to show any difference because it was NOT visible in real world footage. shooting many hours in many different light environments might bring up situations that show some banding in blue skies etc. other than that, the shogun didn't seem to make the gh4 footage look different.

​if you multiply all options for basic camera settings, in-camera-settings and post production, there are probably a million ways and of course a large amount of different results. it's just whatever settings i have tried, the a7s never did look sharper or less noisy, except iso numbers that are so noisy on both cameras that you can't use them. i really have wished i could jump to the a7s and have a better camera plus a lot of money from a sold 1DC as a christmas gift. but right now the a7s doesnt top the 1DC anywhere, it's just weaker on several levels, while still being very good and good for the price. it's just not 1/5th as cheap as the competitor AND twice as good. that rarely does happen unfortunately.

​the difference between internal recording and the recording in shogun is hardly visible. stefan czech did a technical test in his new shogun tutorial video that shows the main difference, here is a screenshot:

​no, really worse

​by the way: the shogun of course doesnt affect the sony a7s iso performance or makes it worse. shogun records as it is. the a7s lowlight performance is also very good. it's just not "outstanding, unseen and much better than any canon" good. it's simply a bit weaker than the 1DC, but still good, especially for the money. if you want to have internal recording, a great pro photo camera, less rolling shutter etc, you still need to pay the high price for the canon.

​it was the exact same exposure, lens, fstop, shutter, iso setting. there are lots more frame grabs and videos, and the result is always the same. people should simply do their own tests and they will see - unfortunately it seems hardly anybody has tested the 1DC in comparison to other cameras, as not too many own it.

​i also own a red epic dragon which is #1 on dxo mark, and unfortunately i have to say that both the 1DC and A7S beat the red by far regarding lowlight and noise. dxo mark often does not have anything to do with what you see in reality or need for projects. their own fantasy test science produces results that are always against canon. especially as photo cameras it is a pure joke if you don't rank the a7s way behind the 1dc.

​the 1DC goes to ISO 204.000. the A7S only looks a bit less noisy (but still less sharp) in areas from 50-200.000 ISO, but i don't see where anyone can use footage above 12.800 professionally anyway. in the test, 1DC had c-log and a7s s-log, and it was not brought up in post. still the a7s delivers impressive lowlight quality - but it doesnt beat the 1DC. if sony would have had a lowlight technology that stands far above canon's AND sells it for 1/5 of the price, that would have been a wonder, and wonder's rarely do happen in combination of more features for less money... i simply think too few people did use the 1DC too little time, as the price is way too high. now together with the shogun this is really beautiful system, only with the lack of 4k 60p. i am sure canon will come up with 4k for the 5D4 and C300 II in 2015, the question will be: does it have 4k 60p? i fear not, that might be left for an expensive C500 II. so we might have the canon discussion for a little more time. in any event the shogun might be a product that can be used for much longer time than any of the cameras.

tested the sony a7s together with 4k recording in shogun today in direct comparison to the canon 1DC (4k internal recording). in lowlight and iso ranges of 3200 and above, the 1DC is a bit sharper and has a bit less noise than the a7s. no big deal, other than the fact that this forum celebrated the a7s as the lowlight king #1, will claim the a7s plus shogun is a new world sensation, and still sees the 1DC as shitty camera. now together with a shogun mounted on top of a 1DC, the canon combination beats the sony in every aspect except price (which is far less disturbing when taking into account that the value of a used 1DC is also much higher than of an a7s). the rolling shutter of the a7s also makes the camera unusable in many situations. the shogun itself is a great tool so far, except its glossy display, unfinished firmware and minor other things. 1DC crop: A7S crop:

A clearly is the raw photo, unless here we have the worlds first photo camera which has a weaker photo image quality than video quality. aside from that, images with only sharp focus in the middle will hardly show the full potential of the camera or lens. a landscape or street with f8-f16 would be much more interesting. plus especially in 4k video, faster movements will show if the image holds up or is falling apart.

the top blogs of this planet and their followers can really have an impact on the manufacturers. but the arguments need to be 100% on the spot and should not be too biased. in the 90s i had to put the same pressure on companies whose products i needed to be improved through magazine articles and long lists of detailed cons i have sent directly to them. now i am happy that EOSHD is doing that for me for free regarding new canon cameras. it just needs ALL facts, so people from canon know that someone knows and judges about the status of their products in each and every way, and not just lists 90% of all perspectives regarding improvements.

no, the A7s is not cleaner if all people would do setup both cameras right and treat them similarily in post. the A7S has some in-camera-denoising that makes the images less sharp. after all steps in post, the cameras are pretty much the same. but the bargain of the 1DC is 4K inside of the camera, and 4K from january 2013 on and not 2 years later. the A7S is not usable for professional photography or timelapses, which means with an A7S you always need to carry around a second and third device (external recorder AND pro photo cam), which makes the A7S heavier, more complicated in workflow and as of today not much less expensive. this forum lists A LOT of pros and cons about cameras, which is great - but then do list ALL facts and don't forget some really important ones.

when the shogun AND its software are there, more comparison tests will show what the A7S really can do. so far the 1DC is much better in 4K lowlight than most pro film cameras who are 2-8x as expensive. i wonder why nobody says "hey its great that this special ability of the 1DC does ONLY cost 10.000 euros, and not much more". in places where you should end at ISO 800 with an epic dragon or GH4, the 1DC can go to ISO 6400. for this the money was absolutely worth it.

if this forum is all about cheap products for enthusiasts, why is the 1DC mentioned and compared here so often? if you compare the other brands' cameras with a 7D2 in terms of film making, the massive critics are of course much more justified than saying a 1DC is bad, which definitely delivers better image results than a GH4, samsung, nikon or every other below $10.000 camera. if it's all about enthusiasts, why do they need the most professional features at any time in the earliest possible stage? and which should be one brand always be ahead and be responsible to be a market leader at any time? canon has all technologies in their portfolio, right now they just don't give it away in one product or cheap. it sucks, but they will have to change that in 2015, or we don't buy any new products from them. i just wonder what happens IF canon is bringing out the perfect camera in spring. will there be an apology by EOSHD that says "sorry i've tricked you into another brand and system, buying new cameras, lenses and adapters, although your canon camera would still have perfectly done it for your needs in the recent couple of months"? because: when in history did pro photographers or filmmakers did exchange their core tools every 6 months, just because new and better technologies came out?

Why should we not talk about how they're falling behind the competition - just because they're the almighty Canon and we should trust what they say? --- i like this blog BECAUSE it confronts canon with all their missing features in a detailed way and puts pressure on them so they give us something better soon. but the arguments should stay realistic. And why should we start with hate blog posts about Apple? Because you don't own any Apple products? --- i own and did own many apple products. transfering files to and from an iphone/ipad is a pure nightmare and takes much longer than on android. all apple users admit that. where is the bashing there? where is the bashing about their overpriced products and extreme profit margins, coming through extreme tax loopholes and underpaid factory work in asia? quite often their products are behind competitors for 6-12 months, so why no canon style bashing there? probably because people never bash stuff they own.

Also, I've got a PL adapter for my A7s so I can put Master Primes on it if I wanted! I'd take an A7s with Master Primes over a 1Dc with Canon still glass any/every day of the week. --- by the way, how do you put lenses on a full frame camera that dont cover full frame? i know my otus 55 and 85 do fit on the 1DC and work as master primes, which zeiss secretly admits.

people don't read and don't seem to get it. the only thing i'm saying it is absurd that this blog claims all the new cheap cameras are way better in all aspects than the 1DC. in fact in this moment, after nearly 2 (!) years, theres no extreme lowlight 4k camera alternative on the market! it's like as if someone urgently wants a ferrari and loves the ferrari brand, but as the car is too expensive, he says all volkswagen cars are much better anyway. nobody at ferrari would listen to a person with such a statement.

1) "A7S kills 1DC stone dead" - should i laugh or should i cry? when you write "in my opinion i like the sony a bit better", thats accepted - but with a sentence like this, how should anyone take other statements seriously? 2) 1DC is 1.3x (and in between full frame and cinema), which is bad why exactly? 3) do i want to have the codec with the smallest file size, or the best image quality? 4) as an external monitor is needed for 4k anyway, all peaking etc options are solved on the 1DC 5) the 1DC can definitely be used without a monitor, or havent you been able to use a 5D2/5D3 in the last 6 years? 6) most enthusiasts certainly have spend more than 20.000 on their cameras and lenses, so why not spend 12.000 for a camera (that also includes 2000 VAT AND can be resold for 8000)? right now you technically lose 2500 when reselling a 1DC, while you lose 1500 when reselling a 5D3. whats the big difference? 7) no banding issues from ISO 400 on. banding issues below ISO only in plain sky. easily to be solved with ND filters that are needed anyway. 8) this "2 more stops" thing is a fantasy you can't see or prove in direct comparison. take some pictures with these cameras and an amateur will see that the 1DC kills the panasonic and sony in all aspects of image quality. or are 70% of all pro photographers on this planet just blind amateurs or canon fanboys?

i also have an epic dragon and 75", 65" and 55" 4K monitors where i can compare all these tools, plus 150 lenses. shoot the same things with all these cameras and watch it on a big screen and then talk. unfortunately hardly anybody does this comparison. the a7s is a toy feeling camera with nice results, but definitely won't top the 1DC - not with a necessary $2000 external recorder and not in lowlight, when all settings are optimized in both cameras. only the high price speaks against the 1DC. big minus for the sony cameras is that most of the great array of canon, nikon, tamron, sigma lenses lacks stabilization, fstop control and of course autofocus. which means for an a7s aside from the recorder you can spend another $5000-$10000 for sony lenses. definitely an a7s is enough to shoot full hd videos and watch them on small full hd monitors, or small 4k monitors who will not tell you what real 4k looks like. to date nobody has proven in a 1:1 comparison with external recording that the a7s or another of the mentioned cameras tops the 1DC in anything in real world footage. the main points are: if someone is happy with so many so great cameras of other manufactures, why whining 10 times about other products by canon that might suck? did anybody write such articles in 2009 about why samsung and panasonic suck regarding cameras and can't keep up with the 5D2? i can't remember that. i also don't see how canon should listen to you if you virtually tell them they are complete idiots, when in fact their business and business numbers seem to work great. the normal human reaction would be to do the exact opposite of what the person who thinks you're an idiot wants.

writing that "Samsung and Panasonic offer all-round video capabilities better than the 1D C for $1500, a difference of over $10,000" is just plain bullshit and won't make canon take this forum bering serious at all. i love my GH4s and i thoroughly tested the A7S which has cool aspects, but a 1DC with a small monitor on top which has focus peaking beats the other cameras in all aspects except weight, or is at least on par - plus it's a way better photo camera. i didn't like the price i had to pay for my 1DC, and i hurt canon by buying 3 GH4 instead of 3 7D2. i also would love to buy a cheaper-than-1DC camera with 4K from canon, and most likely this opportunity will happen in 2015. but right now this sort of canon-bashing and whining seems to be more coming from people who don't make enough money to buy pro cameras like the 1DC, but still think they have the right to use it for little money. this is not how the world and the free market works on this planet! looking back in history, the 5D2, C300 and 1DC at their time were still the most important and first camera milestones in terms of quality except the D800 for its 36MP. nobody can expect one company to be the leader in technology AND the cheapest prices at ANY time!

in 1 month just 3000 more expensive than an A7S plus shogun. plus has internal recording and is a perfect photo camera, while the sony is not a serious option for pro photographers. this forum is really dedicated to people who want the best quality for the cheapeast price, which is never realistic. plus people here might also not like if you tell them that their services should only cost half as much.

After various tests i might have found out that the Canon 1DC has a built in Sony A7S!!! It's in the menu and the name is "High ISO Speed Noise Reduction = strong" which every user usually turns off because of a lack of knowledge, reading manuals and testing. At ISO 128000 and 25600 you will get the same noise-less and softer images in both cameras. But I have to admit: Good Hype Sony!

so basically this might be the reason why banding disappears on the 1DC only if ISO is set to a value higher than 400, as they need that ISO gain to add the noise to avoid that banding?