P337

Actually I do not think those numbers are theoretical, that's the RAW data flow of a "Full HD" RAW 12bit image, everyone starts with those numbers.  It just depends on if they de-bayer and how much they compress down after that.  From those numbers it would seem the original BMCC is not preforming any de-bayering in camera, as 4.98MB is the 14.94MB RGB image before applying a de-mosaic, which triples the size. (which is good for image and space but add more work in post)   To help us better expect what we're getting into I compiled a list of SD Card options for the PocketCC and their approximate footage capacity.   For CinemaDNG (assuming 1.5:1~49MB/s): SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 64GB 90MB/s write ($119.99) holds 21 mins   SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 32GB 90MB/s write ($60.13) holds 10 mins 30 seconds Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 32GB 90MB/s write ($60.99) holds 10 mins 30 seconds Panasonic "Gold Pro" 32GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 10 mins 30 seconds   Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 16GB 90MB/s write ($34.99) holds 5 mins 15 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 16GB 90MB/s write ($37.95) holds 5 mins 15 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s Micro" 16GB 80MB/s write ($49.43) holds 5 mins 15 seconds Panasonic "Gold Pro" 16GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 5 mins 15 seconds   Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 8GB 90MB/s write ($ ) holds 2 min 37 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 8GB 90MB/s write ($20.95) 2 min 37 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s Micro" 8GB 80MB/s write ($25.15) 2 min 37 seconds Panasonic "Gold Pro" 8GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 2 min 37 seconds ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For ProRes HQ (assuming 220Mbps~27.5MB/s): Lexar "Professional 600x" 256GB 40MB/s write ($594.80) holds 155 mins   SanDisk "Extreme Pro 45MB/s" 128GB 45MB/s write ($139.94) holds 77 mins PNY "Professional X 233x" 128GB 35MB/s write ($144.99) holds 77 mins   Transcend "Ultimate UHS-1(red card)" 64GB 40MB/s write ($54.95) holds 38 mins*Most Practical solution PNY "Professional X 233x" 64GB 35MB/s write ($69.99) holds 38 mins SanDisk "Extreme Pro 45MB/s" 64GB 45MB/s write ($72.95) holds 38 mins Sony "UHS-1 94MB/s" 64GB 45MB/s write ($73.67) holds 38 mins SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 64GB 90MB/s write ($119.99) holds 38 mins   ADATA "Premier Pro" 32GB 44MB/s write ($35.99) holds 19 mins Sony "UHS-1 94Mb/s" 32GB 45MB/s write ($39.02) holds 19 mins SanDisk "Extreme 45MB/s" 32GB 45MB/s write ($39.95) holds 19 mins Transcend "Ultimate UHS-1(red card)" 32GB 40MB/s write ($39.99) holds 19 mins SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 32GB 90MB/s write ($60.13) holds 19 mins Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 32GB 90MB/s write ($60.99) holds 19 mins Panasonic "Gold Pro" 32GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 19 mins SanDisk "Extreme Pro 45MB/s" 32GB 45MB/s write ($73.95) holds 19 mins PNY  "Pro-Elite Plus 80MB/s" 32GB 35MB/s write ($139.99) holds 19 mins Lexar "Professional 600x" 32GB 40MB/s write ($ ) holds 19 mins   SanDisk "Extreme 45MB/s" 16GB 45MB/s write ($22.95) holds 9 mins 30 seconds Transcend "Ultimate UHS-1(red card)" 16GB 40MB/s write ($) holds 9 mins 30 seconds Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 16GB 90MB/s write ($34.99) holds 9 mins 30 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 16GB 90MB/s write ($37.95) holds 9 mins 30 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s Micro" 16GB 80MB/s write ($49.43) holds 9 mins 30 seconds PNY  "Pro-Elite Plus 80MB/s" 16GB 35MB/s write ($65.99) holds 9 mins 30 seconds Panasonic "Gold Pro" 16GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 9 mins 30 seconds   Transcend "Ultimate UHS-1(red card)" 8GB 40MB/s write ($ ) holds 4 mins 45 seconds Toshiba "Exceria Type 1" 8GB 90MB/s write ($ ) holds 4 min 45 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s" 8GB 90MB/s write ($20.95) holds 4 min 45 seconds SanDisk "Extreme Pro 95MB/s Micro" 8GB 80MB/s write ($25.15) holds 4 min 45 seconds PNY  "Pro-Elite Plus 80MB/s" 8GB 35MB/s write ($34.99) holds 4 min 45 seconds Panasonic "Gold Pro" 8GB 80MB/s write (EU only) holds 4 min 45 seconds   Transcend "Ultimate UHS-1(red card)" 4GB 40MB/s write ($) holds 2 mins 22 seconds ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Cards are too slow: SanDisk "Extreme 30MB/s UHS-1"  SanDisk "Ultra 30MB/s UHS-1" Transcend "Premium UHS-1 (dark blue card)" Class 10 SD Cards and below.    If anyone knows anymore cards suitable please post them, I'll be updating this list over time.     Btw for me I've figured my average projects needs the A or B camera to be able to hold about 100 minutes of footage before I can dump them into a computer.  Since I mostly use DSLRs in 50Mbps I can get by with at least 42 minutes on $20 16GB cards, which cost me about $46 in cards to "run" one camera (I already have enough for 2 cameras; none of which are fast enough for the PocketCC) but my cost to run a PocketCC equally in 220Mbps with ProResHQ would be about $143 in cards.  So the PocketCC even in ProRes HQ is not a financially practical choice for A cam and barely B cam (for me) so I don't see myself using it as a "tool" anytime soon but I will love playing with it to learn and ready myself for a more "professional/studio" workflow with actual acquisition footage again :D  Once more fast/large capacity cards start coming out and prices come down (in what about a year? Ha, coincidentally that's then we expect to get our BMPCC lol) I think then it will be financially practical to run it (for me).

I think his goal of 1.5:1 compression ratios for the Pocket are very ambitious and unlikely. Update: They can do it if they are not applying a de-bayer on the image in camera. Someone help me figure this out and correct my math if it's wrong Frame size: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels 12 bit Y' Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame 12 bit Cb Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame 12 bit Cr Channel: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame Total "YUV" Channels: 74,649,600 bits per frame Updated: I think this part was incorrect, if the camera does not preform any de-bayering the RAW image would be 3x smaller: 12 bit RAW Image: 1920x1080 resolution = 2,073,600 pixels * 12bits per pixel = 24,883,200 bits per frame Frame rate: 23.976 frames per second * 24,883,200 bits per frame = 596,599,603.2 bits per second 1.5:1 compression: 596,599,603.2 bits per second / 1.5 = 397,733,068.8 bits per second OR 49,716,633.6 Bytes per second 128GB SD Card: 119,210 MegaBytes(formatted value) available on card / 50 MegaBytes per second(rounded up value) = 2,384 seconds per card OR 39 minutes per card As far as I know, the fastest SD cards on the market today only write at 90MB/s so a 1.5:1 [is] "about 30 minutes of footage per 128GBs".  So RAW recording (at the lowest frame rate setting) only works half way decent [well] on today's largest and highest rated "sustained write" card (the Sandisk Extreme Pro 64GB). So if they include RAW or not doesn't really matter to me since it seems so impractical to work with in this device at the moment but I am very looking forward to 10bit 4:2:2 ProResHQ :D

Andrew shutup!  Canon, Sony and RED might buy up all the sensors or try to shut CMOSIS down to delay my camera! lol   But seriously, thanks a lot for this, I hope you're right.   And thanks Julian, your post convinced me to pull the tigger on the pocket pre-order, if there is even a chance it has this sensor I want it.

I wish manufacturers would just start listing the sensor's diagonal measurements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_lens) as it would make figuring out "crop factors" a lot easier.

  LOL, but seriously I've been trying to decide what "B camera" I wanted next.  I had it narrowed down to a GH3, VG30 or 6D but I think the BMP(pocket) just took the cake!  I have never decided on a purchase without very careful study but found myself hovering over that pre-order button even before finishing the article.  I've been trying very hard to sustain but I keep finding myself back viewing my cart lol.  We all know this is a very useful product and it's under a grand for heven sakes and is offering "RAW in the palm of your hand"(kinda) so what are the reasons not to have this?   1. Super 16mm size sensors are small, I could get by with a 4/3 and 2x crop but 2.98x 3x is really pushing it as my widest lens at 24mm would now be like a 70mm.  I would have to buy a new lens or 2 for this to be actually useful which will likely only work well on this camera and for good ones would add quite a bit more money to the package making it actually more expensive for me then the other choices.    2. No 1080p 60, I think this is a missed opportunity for the camera as it would have been very useful to get decent quality 1080p60 for once and with the smaller sensor I'd think it would have been easier (maybe even 120fps).  This would have also made up for the 3x crop factor for me.   3. No way to get actual RAW output, ProRes HQ 10bit at 220Mbps(27.5MB/s) is fine but not quite RAW and HDMI is limited to 1080i60 8bit right?  I don't care so much if the CinemaDNG RAW coming to the camera will be 12bit color depth but I haven't heard anything yet and I don't know how they'll squeeze the planned 1.5:1 of 12bit 1080p30 1.5Gbps(187MB/s) into a 95MB/s SD card but maybe my math is wrong.    4. No built in microphone, if I had to film something stealthy or just don't want to build up bulk I'd rather have a Sony NEX.   5. Will it overheat?  It looks just like an NEX 5 to me, and those overheat, too often...   6. How is it in lowlight?  Not sure its native ISO rating or how its signal to noise ratios compare but I hope it's similar to the GH3.   7. How will I have to wait?  Though I think the worst is behind them they're notorious for making people wait, and then wait some more to get their pre-orders.   Looking over my list I no longer think this would make a good "B cam" choice for me, so I'm holding off on the pre-order.  I still think it's useful though and would make a great "crash cam"/RUN & gun which I was considering the NEX F3 or Hero3 for, it is quite a bit more expensive than those but I think the quality gain would be worth it.

The ZenMuse Z15 can pan and tilt (...and roll?!) remotely!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0pZYa8fayI   I've also seen this used with a GH2

So here is a video on FreeFly's older Cinestar 3 Axis servo Gimbal.     It is $1,500 and I think has the ability of remote tilt and pan because he mentions his camera operator preforming tilt moves and pans while they're flying (seems to be 360 degree pans, 60 degree down tilts and 30 degree up tilts). Ah I think you need FreeFly's Radian sensor packs too, one for each axis servo which adds up to about $1000 for all three.    It has the same 3 axis setup as their new MoVI except the new one uses brushless motors (like the 3 axis $3,500 ZenMuse) which are (smoother?) (quieter?).   Not sure how much weight it will support but the video implies no trouble flying a 5D mark II setup.   Just add a few handles, wireless monitoring and a power supply and you got a MoVI MiNI lol (kinda)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SSDqj7A_bHE   and here is more on the Radian sensor packs https://vimeo.com/46863656#

Thanks Caleb, well said.  I think this wouldn't have contracted any of its negative reception if it wasn't for the overzealousness of others.  If Vincent had just shot with it and gave a shout out of how great he thought it was would have been a lot better, unfortunately he decided to make a big spectacle of himself and the product for its announcement.     Comparing it to the 5D2 announcement was like he went around saying he had found the Holy Grail to us paper cup users, but then it turned out to just be a $100 plastic thermos.  Sure it's an improvement and would be great to have but we've seen something similar to it before and doesn't change the way I drink everything.   Anyway something a stabilizer like this can do that would be hard or impossible with anything else is a steady straight down tracking shot, like following someone down a hole.

Lower your ISO

Lol, well you have diffraction to fear at smaller apertures you know!!! lol   Anyway, another thing that I am seeing from the footage from these stabilizers is how precise and smooth you can move through the scene, very much reminds me of the way the camera moves in digitally simulated environments like in CGI movies, my brain kept telling my I was watching CGI but I knew better!  So I just realized, this could really help when mixing in CGI elements with real life footage.   https://vimeo.com/63260643

I agree and hope to say something similar about this type of stabilizer soon!   @mojo43, negative with good reason; Laforet teased:  but it's $15,000 dollars!   I get that this COULD replace a tripod with fluid head, a steadicam and a slider/dolly but what specific kind a situations would benefit the most from a gyro stabilizer like this?     May I suggest, now that we've all mostly voiced our complete disappointment about this new "game changer" news, we now turn the conversation towards the actual product and what we actually would do with this thing (once it hits $1,000 of course).   It's basically a one-handed steadicam with an automatic "light hand" plus some remote tilt and pan ability so of course it would make steadicam "obstacles" easier; like running down a set of stairs, or navigating through a dense crowd, just going with the rollerblade idea an up-close hockey game might be really cool,  and I've wanted a way to remotely control my camera (with pan and tilt) when it's mounted onto the outside of my car while (someone else is) driving  :) 

Try the Tamron 17-50/2.8 VC or the Nikkor 17-55/2.8 VR

Well I didn't actually mean its physical looks, its movement wasn't very smooth.

  Thanks for the info Baltic! Though that one in the video you post sure looks (and sounds) crappy lol.   @ScreensPro ahh you beat me to that video post of the Zenmuse lol   Generally I agree with the naysayers on this, it was over exaggerated but I really really want to use one now lol!  It seems like it would make a great steadicam replacement but yes Axel we should do our best not to see this as a crutch. 

It has begun! ...back in September 2012 lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6TWct7VqCY

I disagree, maybe when the chinese start cranking out decent ones at $1000 a pop I'd add one but this "MoVI" is still way out of reach for everyone to adopt, unlike those products you've mentioned.   I just think it's still a bit early to be calling the "MoVI" a 5D2 kinda game changer; this is at best a game changer for studio productions like LaForet himself with tens of thousands of dollars lying around but means next to nothing for the DSLR Indie crowd that LaForet's target audience has been since Reverie. It's like the difference from the RED ONE and the 5D Mark II, the real game changer there broke down barriers for EVERY filmmaker.

Just to be clear I'm not disappointed in the technology of this thing:   But I am very disappointed in Vincent LaForet's use and hype of it.  It's not a game changer like the 5D2 and DSLR filming was.   DSLRs broke down barriers (both price and location barriers) and was useful to every filmmaker for every one of their shots, a true game changer.  This is actually putting up new barriers as its price is obviously not for everyone (or anyone really) and from what I've seen requires a bit of new training and experience to use.  Cool new technology? Yes. Game Changer? No.

This is interesting but no game changer; first off it's way too expensive to ever go mainstream, second the end result isn't much different than what you could do with a steadicam (unless you need a lot of helicopter shots or to literally jump through hoops) and last but not least that video looked horrible.     I am not convinced this is better or easier to use than a steadicam for most shots.  It looks like footage from a novice steadicam operator, focus and composition was all over the place and it made me a little sick trying to watch.  Every shot had camera movement just for the sake of camera movement (I get that was to show it off) but proved in the wrong hands (apparently LaForet's :P) it could be the most annoying piece of kit ever, with too much run and gun style erratic movements.  Don't get me wrong, it's a good idea and very cool but this is not on par with the announcement of the 5D2; I think Vincent was just trying to get more traffic for his blog. 

I'm a fan of the new Toshiba APS-C sensor so I don't think those tests were done correctly because I'm seeing more detail in both the shadows and the highlights of the GH3.  The GH3 is definitely sharper without a doubt, the odd thing is that the GH3 footage overall looks underexposed compared to that D7100 footage but I swear I can still see more details in the GH3's shadows, but I think that is because of the better sharpness from the GH3 though.  I do however prefer the color from the D7100, but that's easy to fix, and I notice the clouds are moving better on the D7100 compared to the GH3, the clouds on the GH3 are moving kinda blocky; I guess it's like what JG said, almost like that "smooth motion" tv crap, but not as bad.

These look like the Arriflex Opton Di Oberkochens, I've seen them go for $3,000-3,500 a piece.   another film that used 3 blade lenses was Taxi Driver:      http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3682/lenses-with-triangular-bokeh-in-taxi-driver/p1 http://forum.mflenses.com/planar-1-4-85-in-taxi-driver-t21675.html

yup, and cheaper than a JuicedLink Riggy Micro 222 plus Zoom H1 combo; bigger and heavier though, I'm interested if its pre-amp is cleaner than the H4n and other portable Tascam recorders.

While I agree that I'd like a new Canon APS-C sensor they are not the worst offenders for reusing the same sensor.  Sony for example has used their 16MP APS-C sensor in not only more than 8 Sony branded cameras but also in a few other manufacturers as well.  I assume this is what's forcing Canon to maximize the life span of their own 18MP APS-C, so that they can better compete with Sony.  Also Canon reuses that sensor in cheaper camera bodies like the Rebels and the 100D/SL1 while Sony is reusing theirs in increasingly expensive bodies such as the VG30 and EA50.

Ahh but it's not just a motion controlled rig, not that I actually think it's what LaForet is going on about but it seems to fit the conversation on stabilizers going on in this thread.   btw he just posted that he'll let us know in 24-48 hours

My opinions on DSLR film making and how it stands up to industry standard digital cameras.  The market is being flooded by films shot on a DSLR that have no real quality to them.  DSLR film making has opened the doors to people being able to do more of what they want to create their film?  People went from film to digital because it is cheaper and faster to work with.  If had the choice I'd work with digital.  Next for the film making world is extreme resolutions and frame rates it is just a fad as more and more films are now being shot in it but it's the next big 'thing'.   Let me know if you need anymore help