jonpais

Do the skin tones look off to you, Trevor?

@kye Your monitor is not accurate, so why do you persist in calling the Arri shots yellow? Secondly, those images are graded by someone referred to as a colorist. If you bothered to have a look at the other Alexa LF footage, you would see different skin tones. And of course, there is a wide range of acceptable skin tones.

This demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of what HDR is. Turning up the brightness of your monitor does not suddenly transform it into HDR. And HDR is not marketing crap.

Weeds have fewer scheduling conflicts.

? I might add that my room has yellow walls and curtains, and that the MacBook screen is like a mirror, whereas the LG reflects less than 1% of the light in the room. But Mac Performance Guide confirms the tendency toward red/yellow. Also, to the best of my knowledge, 3rd party calibration can only make adjustments in 8 bits, which is vastly inferior to calibrating the monitor itself in 12 bits. Correct me if I’m mistaken. The 27” 2017 iMac is by far better for grading, not only for the greater screen real estate, but also for its truer rendering of reds/yellows, so crucial to skin tones; though it still has problems of its own. Still no substitute for a reference monitor.

@kye My 2016 MacBook Pro isn’t calibrated, but it definitely shows a bias toward red/yellow. Behind the Mac is an LG C7.

The reason I asked Max at what point the trade off between a small loss of color information for significant gains in dynamic range is worthwhile is the following: if shooting log on the GH5s and finishing in HDR allows me to see the full 13 stops of dynamic range (as opposed to 6 stops in SDR), it would seem to me that the benefits far outweigh the penalty.

@Andrew Reid Serious potential for focusing errors. ?

That’s why I slways call Uber.

They all look dreadful on my iPhone 7, which is why I’m interested in learning what monitor @kye is watching the video on. I’m wondering whether he has a preference for saturated color, or if he believes the Arri only shoots muted color. It would appear as though he prefers Canon colors, which is fine.

@kye may I ask what monitor you’re viewing these on? Because watching the Arri reel on my 55” OLED, the image quality looks spectacular. Do you prefer the Canon colors to Arri’s?

?

If Apple shipped 80 million phones in the fiscal first quarter of 2018, then the total number of HDR displays in the world must already far exceed the population of all of North America. And the format is still in its infancy! By way of contrast, OLED television shipments in 2017 amounted to 1.4 million, with LG owning over 90% of the market.

@maxotics I already said 10 bit on a consumer camera like the GH5 is not the same as 10-bit Arri, or 12-bit or whatever. My point is not to argue bits but that HDR requires either log or RAW. You stay focused on bits if you like. Just another diversionary tactic. @HockeyFan12 Of course a film in Dolby Vision shot with an Arri is going to be superior to a small sensor camera, but the results you can achieve with HDR on consumer cameras are still dramatically better than SDR. And there is a huge difference between delivering to YT in HDR vs SDR.

But you just said that HDR was a scheme to sell more television sets. And how can you presume to know more than Arri? How can you make baseless accusations about manufacturers lying about bit depth? Which manufacturers are lying? Why couldn’t you answer my question about trading off some color saturation for significant gains in dynamic range? How can you insist that the human eye can take just so much dynamic range when Dolby and others arrive at completely different conclusions? Why is it that almost every authority says we can’t discern a difference between a 10-bit image and an 8-bit image but you say that’s false? What do Volvo or VW have to do with HDR? And how can you claim that everyone is happy with current display technology? Why are cellphone companies continually striving to improve their displays? Hundreds of millions of people around the world already own an HDR device. Finally, this is not about bit-depth - it’s about shooting log for HDR delivery.

Makes no difference to me. The world will go on shooting RAW or log for HDR in spite of your disapproval. Neither you nor I can change that.

@maxotics You’re only able to see the advantage of 10-bit when applying LUTs or color grading. If you’re seeing a difference between 8-bit and 10-bit without grading, you’re messing something up. Of course, GH5 10-bit is obviously not going to compete with a Red or Alexa: the GH5 isn’t a $75,000 camera after all! Also, logically, whatever movie you watched, whatever book you read, or whatever Volvo did or did not do has absolutely nothing to do with HDR. You are only trying to divert attention away from your previous unverifiable assertions. I talk about log, you bring up 8-bit; then you accuse manufacturers of lying, wanting to sell more television sets and all sorts of other irrelevant nonsense - and the goal posts keep shifting. I don’t meddle in the Blackmagic forums because I have never shot with one: you’ve never watched HDR in your home, so how can you make pronouncements like that? I’d be more than happy to talk facts, but the ‘whataboutisms’ are just too much. And for what it’s worth, I did not say that log is necessary only for Panasonic when capturing for HDR - it applies to all cameras, whether it’s Canon, Arri, Red or Sony. So are you saying all these companies are lying about the bit-depth of their cameras?

I hope you can add HDR to your list soon. ?

And if I record from my GH5 to an Atomos Ninja Inferno with ProRes HQ, that’s 8-bit too, is that what you’re saying?

@Django Here’s a list of portable devices that support Mobile HDR: Samsung Galaxy Note 8, Samsung Galaxy S8, Samsung S8 Plus, LG G6, LG V30, Sony Xperia XZ Premium, Sony Xperia XZ1, Pixel, Razer Phone, Apple iPhone X, Apple iPhone 8, Apple iPhone 8 Plus, Apple iPad Pro, Samsung Galaxy Tab S3, and the Samsung Galaxy Book. For the fiscal first quarter of 2018, Apple alone shipped nearly 80 million smartphones worldwide, representing over 1% of the world’s population. And that’s just 3 months for one manufacturer, not including tablets and Apple TV. So I believe the number is actually far greater than .2%. lol So now you’re resorting to accusing camera manufacturers of deceiving the public about bit depth, without any concrete proof. I won’t go there - whether it’s 9-1/2 or 10-bit, I can’t say. All I can respond at this point is that you’re grasping at straws. Essentially, what you’re also saying is that my Atomos can’t record 10-bit log from my GH5, is that right?

Like it or not, the UHD Alliance already has over fifty members, including Amazon, Asus, Dell, Adobe, dts, Intel, HP, LG, Nvidia, Netflix, Oppo, Panasonic, Paramount, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, Technicolor, Toshiba, Fox, Universal, and 20th Century Fox, so HDR is here to stay. Arri, one of the most prestigious names in the industry, is leading the way to HDR as well. YouTube, Apple iTunes, Amazon Prime, Vudu and Netflix all stream HDR content. HDR is not all about extreme contrast and oversaturated color: it is capable of extraordinary subtlety as well. It is not at all necessary to shoot 42-bit RAW in order to see the benefits of HDR. Practically any camera that shoots a log profile is already shooting HDR. Regardless of what percentage of pixels is lost in streaming, there is no denying the vast improvement in picture quality when viewing HDR content on video sharing platforms like YouTube. Several tablets and smartphones can also display HDR content. The only hurdle that remains are affordable HDR monitors, and I believe that we will see some in the next couple of years. It is not only filmmakers, but also gamers who are behind the push for better displays. HDR does not require an extraordinary increase in storage capacity or processing power either - 10% more at most. Ken Ross, Mark and I have all uploaded HDR content to YouTube. Practically all NLEs now support HDR. Arri, in one of their papers on grading for HDR delivery, even warns that clients, having seen the HDR version, will not be satisfied with the SDR! And I can practically guarantee you, @maxotics, that if I were to give you a 65” OLED and a subscription to Netflix, that after watching one season of Chef’s Table in Dolby Vision, you would never give it back.

Not trying to be facetious, but the muted color is an aesthetic choice, and the yellow skin tones you are seeing are the fault of your monitor.

I think it’s judder and the two ways to combat it are by slower panning and higher frame rates. I would try both and compare to the results you’re getting now.

Same here. I dread playing Vimeo because of the long buffer times.almost said ‘long buffet lines’. ?

just playing devil’s advocate, @webrunner5 ?, but just because the two cameras were released a year apart, who’s to say how long they’ve been developing the sensor? Panasonic holds patents on lots of sensors with even far more advanced tech afaik.