jonpais

Forget 4K for a moment. The 80D's got a headphone jack, but none on the 6D Mark II. Oh, I'm sure there was a financial reason for that. It's like a slap in the face to Canon users. But hey, Canon themselves market this shit as a step up from a smartphone camera, so what'd ya expect y'all? The Canon Press Release boasts that the 6D Mark Ii will excel at guiding photographers on their way to capturing more compelling images, such as ones with a shallow depth-of-field or being able to give moving subjects a frozen or flowing look, but not when purchased with the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM II, at $3,099.00, it won't. You'd get more of that 'full frame' bokeh goodness shooting with an 80D rocking a fast Sigma for half the price.

@Go Scrub On the contrary, outsourcing results in greater flexibility, efficiency and lower costs. Okay, I can go along with that - wonder if the 6D Mark II will be free from aliasing and moire... BTW, I can tell the difference between a clip shot in 1080p and one that has been downsampled to 1080p from 4K on my 2K monitor - it is sharper and has less artifacting.

@jax_rox So essentially what you're saying is that Canon is no.1 (you repeat this mantra four times, which is quite beneficial, as I have an extremely weak memory), they don't care what you or I think (a good model for a company, works for oil and tobacco?), that in order to increase profits, they decided to omit a headphone jack, a joystick and a second SD card slot (oops, I meant to type '4K'!), and we should only write good things about gear or keep mum. To my feeble brain, the very fact that there are so many detractors like yourself in this thread is proof that people like Mr. Reid should carry on the good crusade. The thing is, Canon would sell 'heaps and heaps' more cameras if their DSLRs included 4K.

I've got no idea how even shooters with no interest whatsoever in 4K can defend Canon in this instance. Not only the lack of 4K, but only a few focus points clustered in the center of the frame (the 80D has got more points stretching out closer to the edges of the frame), no IBIS, no joystick, no headphone jack, and only one SD card slot when many less expensive cameras have two. Among the alternatives, Tony Northrup recommends getting the 80D (for half the price) and getting a couple of fast Sigmas rather than purchasing the 6D Mk II with one of the slow f/4 kit lenses and the images will turn out better (pretty much what I've been recommending all along when it comes to Panasonic cameras); a used Sony A7R II for $2,200 (EVF, 42 MP stabilized sensor); or even the X-T2 for $1,600.

Thanks for the clarification, however, as Mr. Gregg never even mentions the Cinema lineup, I don't think you can give him that much credit. He completely fails to acknowledge that Canon is cynically protecting their expensive, high-end cameras.

I don't know either, but brilliant ergonomics!

@jax_rox Can you explain how adding 4K to their DSLRs is taking a big risk for Canon? I'm failing to understand. Also, as far as I know, Sony shooters started taking stills seriously more than a couple of years back. Jason Lanier switched to Sony over 3 years ago. Fuji is famous for stills, not video, yet even they had the foresight to add 4K to their X-T2. Huge risk? I don't think so... Also, can you back up your claim that the vast majority of Canon users are professionals? Any numbers? Because I'm guessing the majority are amateurs.

This post makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You can use big words, but you doesn't even know subject/verb agreement.? Sony and Panasonic don't have an established customer base? WTF are you talking about?

I think it does merit pointing out how Canon is intentionally crippling their cameras year after year. And how can anyone seriously claim that omitting 4K in a usable codec in their DSLRs is a good strategy for any company in the year 2017?

I'd go along with what others here who have used both the GH5 and the BMPC have to say - image quality doesn't exist in a vacuum - and if it's a pain in the arse to use, I'd go with the camera with better ergos, battery life and on and on. But do you really need the GH5? I'd have a look at the G85 first.

The Canon C300 Mk II price dropped from $16,000 to $10,000 in just two years, so how can we ever be 100% sure what will hold value? ? But I understand, not all Canon gear drops 60% in two years! I would say resist the temptation to upgrade cameras each year and instead invest in lenses, lighting and audio gear from time to time. You'll keep those for years and they'll probably have a greater impact on your work than the very latest camera body. Since I live in a third world country, selling old gear and buying new all the time isn't really an option, as nobody here shoots micro four thirds, and I often have to leave the country if I want to get the latest and greatest. Recently, I had to fly to Malaysia just to pick up a second RodeLink.

Yes, NR destroys fine detail. Better off to use a plug-in if absolutely necessary, but I seldom bother.

You're turning IBIS off when the camera is mounted on a tripod, aren't you?

@mercer @Bioskop.Inc Mercer, you're right about my using lenses with clicked aperture rings affecting the results, so I'm going to do a hundred more tests with my declicked Voigtlander and post them here - not! ? I already confessed to maybe shooting a version of ETTR Lite. Also, as Orangenz points out, and which is plainly visible in the few non-scientific tests I did, a normal or correct exposure looks pretty damn good if you don't want to mess around pulling luminance down and having to do a lot of color correction in post. I already admitted to being a little gungho about ETTR since learning about it a couple months ago. My main takeaway is still that everyone should test for themselves and find out what works best for their style of shooting and their particular camera. Bioskop, Inc - I don't think anyone should dogmatically (is that the right word?) follow any one system, you've still got to be guided by your own judgement and experience. When shooting using the ETTR method, I bring zebras down until they disappear from the important highlights in the image - often, this may be no more than 1/3 stop extra exposure for the way I shoot, nothing drastic. None of my shots look as bright as the example shared by @Fredrik Lyhne from Noam Kroll's website. Much of the time the histogram is not even weighted to the right. But unless I'm shooting in a very dark environment, my waveform monitor is no longer bunched up below 25 IRE like it used to be, and I believe I see a noticeable improvement in noise. And although I've never shot RAW, I'm certain the greater the dynamic range, the greater the benefits will be, and for that reason, I don't think I would recommend shooting ETTR when using the Standard or Natural profiles with Lumix cameras.

So I've got like two questions to ask, but first - when I returned to the States last year, I went to a Best Buy and was watching a demo on one of their massive tv sets. I told the salesman that the UHD quality was spectacular, at which point he told me I'd been watching HD! Still, I'll be getting my first 5K iMac this year, and reviewers almost universally agree that the screen is much better than the older 2K resolution screens. Several here also say that their own footage shot with the GH5 when viewed on a large 4K tv is incredible. Question 1) Even with a lack of televised content, how about the satisfaction of being able to watch your own videos at home on a UHD set? Prices for a 40" model start as low as $500, less than I paid just a few years ago for an HDTV. Question 2) I was actually surprised at how small file sizes were shooting 4K with my GH4. Soon, h265 will be the standard, reducing file sizes by as much as 50%.Even now, I think I'm getting over an hour of footage on a relatively inexpensive Sandisk 64GB SD when shooting with the G85. The cost of storage is also gradually declining. So is storage for a hobbyist really a big concern?

Already preordered!

This from the comments in response to a comparison between the BMPCC and the GH5 uploaded to YT by DSLR Cinema Movies: John Polchowski i highly doubt that the GH5 camera was in focus for this test.Focus looks way off. DSLR Cinema Movies Thank you John. The focus speaking was green all over the baby's face. It might be grin YouTube's compression. I'll do another test tomorrow outdoors side by side. Scott Weigel John Polchowski from my eyes, the GH5 focus was too close. DSLR Cinema Movies same lens and distance as the bmpcc Scott Weigel can't rely on focus peaking with GH4 or 5. especially in lower light because it grabs off noise. This is where using an external monitor comes in handy. Why I love my Atomos Ninja Flame so much. DSLR Cinema Movies i only have the atoms ninja 2... Drew Mestel Its not YouTube Compression. There is a complete lack of subject matter in sharp focus, regardless of the shallow depth of field. DSLR Cinema Movies It was in my Cinelike D Settings. I Had Them Set Wrong and I Didn't apply sharpen in the grade...

The slow motion of the URSA looks choppier than the Panasonic.

I beg to differ - shadow detail is as important for narrative art as are watercolor papers to a painter or speakers to a musician - imagine a set of speakers with a bass response that only went down to 5,000 Hz. In broad daylight, I don't have to strain to see detail in the jacket of someone standing only a few feet away. Embracing filmmaking means learning how to expose and color correct properly. Giving advice like the more you fail the better you'll get is as good as no advice at all. I could just as easily say that we learn from our successes! Funny that you say that ETTR is just wrong for anything but RAW - since Paul Leeming, Noam Kroll and thousands of others find it very useful for everything from Cinelike D to V-Log. And there have been many posts online showing how ETTR can improve image quality, including my own shot in Cinelike D. Someone mentioned film noir, as though film noir had blown highlights and crushed shadows, which absolutely is not true. I've watched many, from Otto Preminger to Louis Malle and Fritz Lang, and they are correctly exposed. Some here seem to be allergic to using scopes, meters, histograms and peaking. Can you imagine a sound man just playing it by ear? Not using level meters? Unthinkable! It's common practice to record so peaks are at -12dB, then raise levels in post. I've never heard of someone saying, what the heck, -6dB/+6dB, it's all good! If sound is recorded at 0dB or higher, there will be distortion. Roger Deakins might be able to judge exposure by eye, but we're not all Roger Deakins. If a colorist has a properly exposed image to begin with, it's going to make their life much easier than one that's underexposed. Others are dismissive of distribution channels such as YouTube and Netflix, saying that nobody cares about image quality online, but like it or not, that's the future. Also, nobody wants to talk about how soft the image is, or the distracting bokeh... strange!

@gethin You're saying that with IBIS turned off that you're getting micro-jitters when the camera is mounted on a gimbal? That's not the IBIS, it's the gimbal, or the camera isn't balanced properly. Can you share a video with the camera by itself with no gimbal and IBIS on?

priceless!

It's curious that even though in Vietnam, Blu-ray players and 4K content are virtually absent, and even every DVD shop is selling bootlegs ripped from the internet (there are no shops selling genuine DVDs or Blu-rays), and many, if not most programs here are in SD, yet still most homes have an HDTV, and they're even pushing 4K televisions. Of course, SD television sets are no longer available, not that many homes don't have an old set. Not once have I seen a film crew shoot anything but HD here, and I've seen a lot. I've been shooting and distributing all my videos in 4K for several years now, but I still don't own a 4K monitor or television set. With that out of the way, I haven't read all six pages of this thread, but I'd like to respond to some of the comments I've seen. 1) I could care less how many homes have 4K television sets, just as I could care less that fewer than 40% of the world's population has Internet, or that 99% of the world's population has never listened to a string trio by Schubert - I still want my Internet and I want my Schubert 2) If Sony and Panasonic are manufacturing 4K cameras to increase sales of their television sets, good on them - profitability means more money can be poured into R&D, 3) The main reason I upgraded from the GH3 to the GH4, aside from focus peaking, was that the 1080p had so much aliasing and moire, it was driving me crazy, 4) As far as I'm concerned, if it costs next to nothing to include 4K in a camera, there's no reason it shouldn't be included - nobody is forcing stills users to shoot UHD, any more than they're forced to use the touch screen if they prefer fiddling with joysticks and twisting knobs and dials, 5) 4K gives more flexibility in post for cropping and image stabilization, 6) In four more years, which may be the life cycle of a Canon, not sure, since I've got next to no interest in them whatsoever, 8K will be the standard, making their 1080p practically ancient, 6) I love Kendy Ty's videos shot on a Canon T2i, and Ruben Latre's (if you're not familiar with his work, you definitely should be!) showreels uploaded to YouTube in low-fi - but I wouldn't love them any less if they were at least in HD, 7) From what I've read, more and more photographers are being asked to shoot both video and stills, so a capable hybrid camera would be a plus - after all, why should a wedding photographer be able to deliver 42 megapixel stills (or whatever, I don't keep up with that, since I've never had a camera that shoots more than 16 megapixels!) but be restricted to soft 1080p for video work?

@mercer what's not to like? ?

@Chris Oh used, right?

Are you kidding me? BH Photo lists the G85 as discontinued? If you can find one of these for as little as USD 715.00, I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up. In fact, I was about to pull the trigger on a second body myself, but they're going for around $1,000 at a shop here in Hanoi. Before purchasing mine around six months ago at a store in Penang, I really half-expected the images from the G85 to be grossly over-sharpened, with hideously aggressive noise reduction, clipped highlights and crushed blacks. If that had turned out to be so, I was even prepared to dump all my m4/3 gear and switch to another brand, I kid you not. Fortunately, that wasn't the case, and it's the best digital camera I've worked with bar none (but I have much less experience than other forum members here with different brands, for sure!) Another reason I've held off purchasing a second body is that I fully expect Panasonic to announce a new midrange camera shortly, with some of the added functionality of the GH5 - what those features might be is anybody's guess, but even something as small as no extra crop in 4K would be huge for me (the G85 has a 1.1X crop). But the trend is higher prices, so the G85 will still be a bargain.