IronFilm

Lack live HDMI out though if a person wants to use a monitor with it like the OP does

Dan Keaton (from Convergent Design, so an expert on this topic) says that a gamma curve is applied by the FS700 before outputting its "raw" signal, which is how it squeezes more than 12 stops into 12 bits: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/convergent-design-odyssey/532413-fs700-raw-output-slog-3-a.html#post1918899 Ah good, I am feeling better about this now. But am still wondering what is happening in the details of when a 10bit ProRes HQ file is being recorded in the Odyssey or Shogun from a FS raw signal from the FS700? Is a further extra curve being applied to squeeze those 12bits of into down into 10bits?

From everything I've heard the FS raw from a FS700 is better than the FS5/FS7 (because Sony slightly screwed up their FS raw implementations, for instance almost no one does FS raw from the FS7 because of this I think. However the FS5 of course gets a bigger leap forward than the FS7 by using external vs internal recordings) And yeah, F5/FS7/FS700/FS5 all share the "same" sensor (but tweaked for each camera). Yup, can even do 4K 120fps from the FS700 FS raw. Basically the camera is crippled if doing internally, heck an a5100 toy might even do better 1080 24fps internal than a FS700! I strongly suspect the FS700 (and FS7/FS5) will be a step down for me in terms of 1080 on speed recordings, but an upgrade in almost everything else. (But not in *everything*, just almost, for instance the FS700 has many less SDI outputs than the F3, and lacks timecode input or genlock. Bummer!!)

Is so annoying when you realize they do it! Ah well Give us a heads up if any cheap monitor monitor pops up that does it properly and zooms into a non-scaled down 4K image for pixel to pixel zoom

Hahahaha! "Are you sure you're supposed to have that thing on?" (pointing at microphone) Love it when the grandma thinks she is more of an expert than you!

The FS700 4K 120fps (or 2K 240fps) is in a totally different world. The FS700 can just look beautiful:

Am guessing you want to focus on yourself? And check that? Just pre focus on something the same distance as yourself beforehand! (such as the chair)

I had a chuckle over the title of this video, "Better Living Through S-Log"! Could just imagine people going door knocking house to house, "Sir have you discovered how life is Better Living Through S-Log? Let us come in to explain how S-Log can shine light on how you're living".

Just got notified B&H has a Zoom F4 for $420 daily deal. Pounce on it! Is the golden perfect recorder for any one to start out on, and that is unbelievably cheap. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1260110-REG/zoom_zf4_f4_multitack_field_recorder.html

Am pondering buying a Sony FS700 (as you might see from the other thread). The FS700 does 12 bit compressed linear raw from its SDI output, which seems like a backwards step vs the 10bit Slog out of the F3? As you really need to get 16bit linear raw before it is better than 10bit Slog. (such as say the F5 does with its 16bit raw, so as to be better than the internal 10bit Slog) So does this really make it worth it? And additionally, how do the external recorders handle the conversion from 12bit linear raw to 10bit ProRes HQ recordings? I assume they're applying some sort of gamma curve. (but is different from Slog?)

You need the Shogun Inferno for 2K 240fps? Which is $1.3K, that nearly doubles the price. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1334247-REG/atomos_atomshgin2_shogun_inferno_7_4k.html Or is there a cheaper alternative for 2K 120fps? But is old bad? Am still using my Sony PMW-F3! I'd happily stick with it for years to come if only it had 4K. Yeah probably the Kinefinity Terra 4K is my biggest alternative to the FS700 I'm considering, but that means a big leap in price. (even if I find one secondhand, which is possible but unlikely)

But the downside is you have to put up with the MX sensor. I mean for goodness sake even the AF100 does better in low light than the RED Epic: http://philipbloom.net/blog/kesslerdoc1/ Using my F3 I really appreciate its lowlight capabilities so I can work with smaller lighting packages and a smaller lighting crew (which I have to do, I'm no big shot DoP!). Sometimes like last weekend I'll use something as small as a Dedo for a fill, and my key might only be a 1.2K Fresnel Tungsten, and that will be enough for even quite slow F stops so the cam op can handle pulling focus himself even with tight shots and the talent swaying back and forth.

Well the audio side of my business is going along ok ish, I reckon I can spare a couple of thousand USD for a camera (although an Inferno + FS700 is more like US$3K+! Maybe I won't get a recorder, and shoot only internal but rent an Inferno when the job justifies it), and I'll probably make back half of that from extra little camera jobs here or there from owning a FS700 over the next year. Thus in a way I'd only be squandering US$1K on this hobby side of filmmaking for me. (as that is what I accept the camera side of films is for me now, a hobby that I love to do. While my professional career is the audio side of filmmaking) Have a couple of friends of mine who are considering a camera purchase as well, am thinking if one of them goes for a FS700 as well then that will solidify my decision to go with a FS700 as then we'll both have a matching camera we can borrow from each for matching A / B cam multi camera shoots. (plus my own F3 will remain as an awesome zero budget spare cam that can match ok with a FS700) I kinda "eat to live" myself, forced to follow this diet strictly due to a few medical issues which are fine and cleared up so long as I watch what I eat. (thus times when I restrict my diet to only meat for spells, so as to get flare ups back under control)

I am very curious as to how easily the Kinefinity Terra 4K / Z Cam E2 / GH5S / BMPCC4K will be able to be perfectly matched up in post as rumors are they all share the same sensor underneath. Could make up for an interesting "matching" set up for multicam if so. You might like to look into wireless follow focus (they've been coming down in price a lot lately!) so you can pull focus for shots on a gimbal. This for instance is great and is extremely affordable: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1367922-REG/tilta_nucleus_m_wireless_follow_focus.html Hmmmmmm......... I strongly doubt that? I'd expect it to be a leap above XAVC-L 8bit 420 Did you ask about your concerns on DVXuser? There is a strong community of FS series owners over there. Ha! Good. If you got a FS7 I'd ditch the idea of external and stick to internal recordings. However the XDCA is worth it for the TC input!

I agree with Jon, 5" is the sweet spot for a cam op! While 7"+ is better suited for a 1st AC or director's monitor. Used the Liliput A5 for the first time on the weekend and I thought it was amazingly fantastic for its price of US$149 (its biggest probably? It was my B Cam Op's favorite monitor so he'd keep on pointing it at himself instead of pointing it at me the DoP, and not using one of his other two monitors he had on the B Cam!!!):

Sub $2K sales can be found easily, sometimes even US$1.5K

Is funny looking back at this thread, as only two years later it dropped even further! To half or even a third of the price!

Shogun original on eBay for US$700 ish maybe Yup!! No other reason why I'd be interested in the FS700 I don't do paid camera work often enough to justify more expensive cameras anyway. I eat ONLY meat. (sometimes, once did a meat only diet for a month straight)

EVERYONE is too skinny by American standards! ? I get feeling this thread is any moment now going to get as far off track as the BMPCC4K thread is....

I don't normally eat bread from on a tripod?! (or eat bread ever)

Meh, the FS5 is only 4K 8bit 420 so I wouldn't use that too much anyway. And the Shogun is cheap and does the core 4K FS raw functionality.

Uses a new sensor however, maybe extra cost there. Plus they will certainly sell less of them than the GH5, so GH5S R&D costs can't be spread around as much over as many units shipped.

That is one way to look at it. "only 2x the price" Another way to see it: this is DOUBLE the price! Additionally quite a few of the FS5 2ndhand ones don't have the 4K raw upgrade, so that is another $500 cost. When spending any amount on a camera is probably a silly idea for me :-/ Given that I'm focused on sound now instead. But a $1.5K FS700 does tempt me....

Indeed, they can be a good solid chunk cheaper than a FS7 which might cost 50% more. Even so, a FS5 is still going to cost some triple the amount of a FS700! Not sure I wish to pay that just for 4K 8bit internal, better ergonomics, and ambigously better colors. One of the pros in favor of the F3

Did the KineMAX ever get ProRes? I'm fairly sure it didn't, but worth checking. https://www.newsshooter.com/2015/04/30/kinemax-6k-gets-8990-kit-price-will-gain-apple-prores-options-in-near-future/ Not a problem. I wouldn't use it. Just like I don't use the one on the F3. It is merely for navigating the menu, like the side panel on an Arri or an F5 etc I've used a FS700. Own a F3, and shot plenty with the FS7. Yeah Sony's menus are different, but that is ok! The extra complexity is not a bad thing, it is a feature, as it allows more capabilities with tonnes of options. And I feel once you own the camera you get used to it, and very very familiar with the menus. I wouldn't use internal, just like I don't with my F3. Unless it is for a very casual shoot. (like when I do some of my vlogs for YT with my F3)