IronFilm

Ah, I was thinking of RED Epic-X Dragon True, RED Dragon-X is something else (ugh, RED's naming...), same sensor though. But surely a DSMC2 body is a bit pricy? How much? Is it just the brain?? Once you add on everything else to make it fully functional (which is a lot), you're probably creeping close to ARRI AMIRA territory!! (which can be got for not much more at all than US$10K) Which would be one of my vaguely "affordable-ish" dream cameras right now. @QuickHitRecord very recently purchased an older RED (but a DSCM1), perhaps he can chip in with his experiences. Probably with a 50Wh power draw then they could just slap a massive 200Wh battery on it, and bring another spare 200Wh battery with them. Arguably I'd say modern Blackmagics are better. Yeah, REDs in general are a bit of a pain to shoot with. And if you care about reliability... you wouldn't use them. Although I think this shouldn't be a major concern for @Jedi Master's use case. But if you are to exclude Blackmagic on the basis of reliability, then you MUST exclude all RED cameras (especially Dragon or MX era ones). Yeah the older REDs (Dragon & MX) can make even the ancient old BMPCC look like a nifty "low light camera".

So there is a strongly compelling case to go with those, because not only are they so very good but you'll be able to get the most out of them. Vs going down a wild and unusual path, unless that is what you want?? If you like exploring new territory to squeeze the most out of something unusually new and different? Then maybe even pick up a secondhand Kinefinity from the previous generation, or splurge on the latest Kinefinity MAVO S35. You'll definitely be unique and pushing the limits on that camera! Heck, maybe go use whatever is the latest beta version of Magic Lantern with a Canon 5Dmk3 body??? Another thought, don't underestimate just how big and bulky a set of PL cine lenses can be when properly packaged up. (as you've mentioned before, you're buying PL lenses?) It's pretty normal I'm on a shoot, and it is lens cases. (yes, plural! They don't fit all into one pelican case. And transporting even one of those pelican cases and the camera can be a major hassle to do on your own even just for one mile) This is a benefit of going with mirrorless stills lenses, or even mirrorless cine lenses (such as the DZOFilm MFT cine zoom lenses I linked to earlier for the P4K), is even as a OMB you can still carry around a semi complete-ish set of lenses with you.

They're pretty slow based nature documentaries that OP is filming. I can't see the sigma fp being a bad choice for it in that scenario? (probably not the optimal choice, but not a bad choice either) It's the DSMC1 body (which is what came out after the RED ONE, the DSMC2 though has been out for quite a while). But it is the Dragon sensor, which is the "newest" you can find in a DSMC1 body. Honestly, I'd just get yourself a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K instead of a Dragon or older sensor. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787634-REG/blackmagic_design_cinema_camera_6k.html If we were talking about say the Gemini sensor, then maybe you'd have a case for RED? (I dunno, haven't seen any head to head shoot outs yet) But any Gemini body is going to be waaaaaay more expensive. I am wondering if perhaps an old ARRI ALEXA Classic might make sense for you. Would be seriously pushing the max of what you could operate yourself, especially once you factor in the tripod / mattebox / lenses / batteries. But it sounds like you take things at a slow pace, and never go to far from the car. And I think you'd get personal enjoyment out of using "an ARRI". Otherwise, I'd be seriously strongly suggesting you go with one of the Blackmagics. URSA Mini 12K or any of the URSA Mini Pros (G1 or G2). Or the new "Pocket" (except they're not calling it a pocket...) 6K with the L Mount. Or even the P4K (lots of great cine lenses for MFT) or P6K (you can get that in PL mount). I would not at all be worrying about reliability or ergonomic considerations that others might think about for BMD, they're completely irrelevant / overblown in your circumstances. Maybe I'd give a wild card consideration to the Z Cam series as well. Or a secondhand Panasonic S1H (or BS1H). Or Fujifilm X-H2s with braw (not really a fan of an external recorder, but fine for your usecases). But there is absolutely oodles of info out there about how to setup / rig / use / postproduction for URSA Mini and BMD Pocket cameras, so you can very easily jump in by yourself and get the most out of your camera.

So you'd even be editing in an analog basis?? Cutting and gluing strips of film together?? 😮 It is quite different. Digital scanners / workflow existed for some years before fully 100% digital filmmaking became mainstream.

Interesting.... "nature documentaries" is a bit vague, but I assume you don't need AF from your other comments. I strongly feel that something along the lines of a BMD Pocket 4K (or perhaps one of the ZCam E2 series), or the latest Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K (with the Lecia L mount) or Panasonic S5mk2 (also L mount) would be the best pick for you. (or something closely similar to these options, perhaps the Sigma fp camera, or the Kinefinity MAVO) This is the latest BMD that just came out: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1787634-REG/blackmagic_design_cinema_camera_6k.html While even the likes of the little older P4K would still be an extremely good choice, as the Pocket 4K with a pair of DZOFilm zooms would be an ultra compact and very high quality setup, that you could easily take hiking far into the woods. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1507681-REG/dzoptics_dzo_6226611_13_bundle_10_24mm_20_70mm_t2_9.html I wouldn't worry at all about the reliability of BMD, as you're not having a multi million dollar production riding on your shoulders. The concerns of professionals are not the same as yours. You can tolerate the odds of the 0.01% happening. Likewise I wouldn't worry about XQD cards existing or not, as the most popular of all popular cameras use them! XQD cards are not going away anywhere.

They might not be too badly impacted as you'd think, other than the general massive downturn in volume of productions made. As once the film has been processed and entered the digital workflow to be edited, the CGI/VFX is done with Super35 film no differently than if it had been shot on an ARRI ALEXA instead.

heh, I was just thinking "it wouldn't impact me" (as I am in the Sound Department), but true, just simply seeing the industry shrink by 90% (if digital was to disappear) would have a major impact upon me

Plus experimenting with lighting now is very easy to do, so as to find and refine the look you're seeking. No more dealing with hot tungsten lights and gels for them.

@bjohn, you need to get a digital camera that looks like a film camera such as the Nikons Df and then she'll never be able to tell if you're being responsible shooting digital or being evil using film 😉

The strike? People being forced to sell, so that they can keep on paying their mortgage, least they have to sell their house instead

Yup! That's why I rated it as one my camera releases of note from 2023:

I didn't need to even wait until my next gig on Monday! I'm here at a Halloween Party 🎃 And totally unprompted, Captain America himself brought up "The Creator" and that it was shot on a Sony FX3:

Yeah it's crazy the FS7 and FX9 needed the XDCA unit but the FS700 and FX6 did not??? Why do you think this is?? I am currently trying to sell my FS7, I hope I get a good price for it due to the fact I've selling it with the rather expensive XDCA!! But I am doubtful 😞 That would put it too close in price to a Sony FX9mk2? Maybe the "Burano 6K" could be the same inflation adjusted price as the Sony PMW-F5 was?

Don't think anybody is saying that is the primary reason for the FX3 being used (unlike for some movies shot on an iPhone). But we're just debating if it was "a factor"? I think yes, maybe.

Heh, while on the topic of the early days of RED and then their decline, this was just posted on Movie Set Memes:

I agree, they should have mentioned earlier on that a Sony FX3 was used to film this. Not leave it so late. Absolutely, I don't think it was Sony who was pushing the FX3 being used back during pre-production. They just took advantage of what landed on their lap, to do a bit of marketing. When I mean using the FX3 for marketing purposes, I mean to film and market "The Creator". And I'm not saying it was a major factor in the FX3 being used, but I suspect was "a factor". "good press" = marketing

Have they ever??? Even when REDs were more popular on production, a few years back, it was still easy enough for producers (especially in big markets such as LA or NYC) to demand the latest. Because there was a big oversupply of RED shooters vs jobs suitable for a RED. Their RED Raven and RED Komodo pushed them rather close to consumer territory RED even at the best of times never really gained heaps of traction. Their market segments were: 1) RED fanboys 2) cutting edge experimenters, who would dabble with the the RED ecosystem when it was new. Probably got burnt by RED. And would move along to abandon RED as soon as something better was available. Be it a Sony PMW-F3 / Sony FS700 / ARRI ALEXA / or whatever. 3) people who needed a compact cinema camera , be it for a drone / gimbal / crash cam / whatever 4) people who want "higher quality" but can't afford the best. (i.e. ARRI ALEXA cameras, or Super 35 film, or something similar-ish such as Sony F35 or F65) #1 has been in decline for years. #2 has completely disappeared. #3 got very gradually chipped away at with the likes of better mirrorless cameras + BMD's BMCC & BMPCC. But the release of the ARRI Alexa Mini almost completely demolished this niche for RED. Then the P4K / VENICE / FX6 / etc killed whatever small teeny remaining niches RED might still have in this market. #4 initially this gap for RED to live in used to be very big. As when the RED ONE was released the ARRI ALEXA didn't exist at the high end, not even the Sony F35 existed yet. And the HDSLRs didn't exist on the low end. So RED had all to themselves a massive huge market between the likes of Panasonic DVX100 etc on the low end and shooting on Super 35mm (or perhaps the Sony PWM-F900R) on the high end (which is VERY expensive!). Maybe RED's most direct competition was Super 16? (it's a middle ground between DVX100 vs S35) So it was easy to make a strong case for RED. But within a couple of years things very quickly changed: ARRI ALEXA & Sony F35 etc got released, which meant the very high end for digital was no longer RED's. HDSLRs & HD camcorders such as the Sony EX3 got released so that the low end HD was no longer RED's. But as each year went by, it became worse and worse for Sony. As quickly you got RED being squeezed and attacked from all directions: 1) HDSLRs / mirrorless got better with 4K and even 10bit, killing even more of the low end market for RED. A filmmaker that in the past might have been happy to financially overstretch themselves to the max to try and get Scarlet-X for their thesis film, is now happy to shoot it on a newly released Panasonic GH4 with an Atomos recorder. 2) Mainly Blackmagic (but to a lesser extent ZCam/Kinefinity/AJA/etc as well) killed off a lot of appeal for RED in the low end raw/ProRes niche of the market. And even attacking them hard in the mid range once the URSA Mini came out. Plus once the likes of ALEXA XT etc got released, making older ALEXA Classics increasingly more affordable to rent, then that too killed away the mid range for RED> 3) The low/mid end for slow motion got killed by Sony FS700, and once the Phantom cameras came out they killed the high end for RED. And with time this just got worse and worse for RED, as more and more cameras could do better and better slow motion. 4) compact cameras (for gimbal / steadicam / crash / cranes / etc) on the high end got killed once the ALEXA Mini was released, and had already been chipped away at by the mirrorless and BMPCC on the lower end 5) the low/mid range for documentaries / corporate / advertising / etc got massively eaten away at with the release of the Canon C300mk1 & C100, and then full on demolished once the Sony FS7 came along, almost no point for using RED at all. What was once a big area for RED between S35 level vs DX100 level filmmaking when the RED ONE was released has shrunk now to almost nothing. Remember too, that the camera rental is a very small part of an overall budget for a production in many cases. The difference between renting a RED Gemini vs an ARRI Alexa Mini is a rounding error for them. So why choose the RED?? And if someone is super strapped for cash, will they want to splurge on renting a RED Gemini or will they be happy to settle for the likes of an URSA Mini Pro or a Sony FX6 or Canon C300mk2 etc? (and probably, these cameras will be even better suited to the nature of this type of filmmaking) Indeed, you might have missed the boat on getting your hands on your dream camera! They're unaffordable now. ah right, two totally different sensors Would make more sense to compare a Epic-X vs Scarlet-X that are both using the same MX sensor.

I don't think they need to boost the raw capabilities of the FX9/FX6, those are nice to have features for marketing rather than core features for the bread and butter purchasers of them. Neither is 8K being demanded strongly by this market segment at all. If 4K 120fps (which now even the Sony FX30 can do internally) is the only "major" feature in the FX9mk2 and everything else is tweaks around the edge (such as giving more anamorphic options), then I'd say this is a fairly incremental upgrade like the FS7mk2 was (but a bigger update than the FS5mk2 was!). And the type of possible update I'm expecting from Sony. That would be a nice release! But where would they price it? There is only a $5K difference between the two VENICE bodies. Perhaps instead of $25K, they'll make it be $20K?? Would definitely put it within the reach of more FX9 owner-ops

Not a bad idea. Plus OP said they did all their shooting on a tripod, suggesting to me their documentary style involves a lot of interviews. So if going for a C200 instead of a C300mk2 means they can have two cameras that would be extremely beneficial. And CFast cards have dropped down in price a lot since the C200 was released. You can get a 1TB card for just $500: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1452851-REG/angelbird_avp1tbcf_av_pro_cf_1tb.html That gives you 2hrs of recording time with 4K 12bit raw. Maybe grab another 512GB card for US$300, gives you another 1hr of recording as a spare back up card (something to use while backing up your main cards footage). https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1422513-REG/angelbird_avp512cf_512gb_av_pro_cf.html US$2K ish for a C200 on eBay plus another $1K-ish in media and batteries? Not really. It wouldn't have a mechanical shutter. Quite so, for any vlogger which doesn't want slow motion (although a lot do!) this FX300 would be their perfect camera.

Sure, we're seeing oversaturating as we're people who post on EOSHD but it is leaking out to a wider audience. If I tomorrow at work asked around "hey have you heard about that new blockbuster scifi film shot on a mirrorless?" then I'd probably get a few bites. Plus it is a "hook" that even mainstream channels might spur them to write a report on or do a video on, even if that aspect is only a glancing mention in the overall reporting. Yes, but how much worse would it have done with even less press? "a pretty compelling story" Isn't there is another name for that? 😉 It's marketing! There is rather little difference in weight between a stripped down FX6 and a stripped down FX3, plus when you're using heavier anamorphic lenses like they are, then it makes it easier to balance the gimbal if your camera is a little heavier rather than weighing nothing at all

Ah, I was linking to 2 pin lemo not 4 pin lemo. Here you go then: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1470777-REG/hedbox_unix_1b4_v_mount_adapter_power.html Or just get a battery plate with a pig tail then wire it up yourself! (although lemo connectors are a pain to solder) However, not needing to always use rails is convenient. Maybe there is a 3D printed solution here?? Ah true, the RED Scarlet bodies are slightly "newer". Yeah and even mounting the V Mount at the back of the RED One still blocks the screen at the back.

That's what I have been saying all along! I reckon "marketing reasons" was a big factor. Just like why people sometimes choose to "shoot on an iPhone" for a project, to promote it like this. Would any of us be talking about this film for 6+ pages if he'd used a FX6?? (or FX9) Good point. The FX6 was incredibly new then. And although the FX6 was announced a few months earlier than the FX3, the demand for the FX6 was white hot. It took a very long time until you could easily source a FX6, especially a large number of them like Gareth needed. Yet the Sony FX3 from basically day one you could walk into any camera retail store and grab a couple off the shelf. Many of us do underestimate just how very long pre-production takes on these big productions, they'd have long before been running tests on their cameras before they started shooting. So they needed the cameras ready and available to buy way back then.

Wonder how big the update will be if it is a FX9mk2 Maybe just a very small modest one like the FS7mk2 and FS5mk2 was? I hope for a brand new FX model, such as a "FX300". The FX30 does 4K 120fps and is $1600 by itself (or $2K with the audio handle). And that is after the $200 price drop! ($1800 and $2,200 beforehand) Having a sub $1K (or even sub $800) cinema camera would be awesome. Maybe if it was 4K 60fps, or even just 4K 30fps, that a new Sony FX300 is. But keep all the same codecs, cooling fan, timecode, full size HDMI, etc of the FX30/FX3. Yes I remember when working with the Varicam LT that it had slow reboots. And it fairly often needed to be rebooted, for instance any time you wanted to switch to offspeed mode and then back again

I'm saying "in the real world" as shorthand for saying in a professional setting working with and for others on a filming production. Of course, if it is just for your own personal pleasure, then just use whatever warms your heart! Even the Barbie Doll Camera could be the right choice for you! Nice!! Start up your own thread @QuickHitRecord to track your Scarlet MX journey? Would be fascinating to follow. Why was this so difficult and expensive? Just need a setup for V lock to lemo power ? Such as: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1597736-REG/indipro_tools_vmrdk_v_mount_plate_with_15mm.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1470774-REG/hedbox_unix_0b_v_mount_adapter_power.html Interesting... more prone to failure than the Scarlet-X?? That's curious Isn't the Dragon sensor a bit better at low light? As well as a stop more dynamic range? Thought Dragon also has more naturally accurate colors and better skin tones? Cheers for that detailed analysis! I would have thought the newer DSMC2 body of the RED Raven vs the older DSMC1 makes it a slam dank case for the RED Raven (if they're both at the same price. Unless you want PL lenses, which the Raven can't handle. Which to be fair, is by itself a strong argument against the RED Raven) That is just begging to be reversed engineered.... ! Make your own DSMC2 I/O module. Even though they've both got "the same MX sensor" I've heard others who prefer the RED ONE as well. Perhaps all that extra weight and processing power gives it a little extra magical something?

Exactly! That's why I shared the video, I thought it was quite interesting. As it is amazing that such a very old camera could be a stand in for the latest and greatest (the Sony FX9). Should make us pause and appreciate about what's so great and accessible that we have already available to us now in eBay very cheaply