IronFilm

Generally speaking audio gear has been moving forward at a slower pace relatively speaking. Microphones lasting for decades? (it isn't unusual for people to still be using daily microphones from the 1980's, or even 1970's. Even 1960's microphones get used on occasion) Mixers lasting a decade or two. Recorders lasting a decade or more. To give a personal example, my Sound Devices 552 came out 8 yrs ago (it was revolutionary for its time! First ever mixer with a recorder built in), could I see myself still using it in another 4yrs? Yup, I certainly could see it still getting use now and then. Or consider my Lectrosonics (which I'm upgrading to from my much newer Sony UWP-D11 models), they're mostly from the 1990's or 2000's! Yet they're still some of the very best wireless (the biggest ways they're lacking from the latest most expensive gear, is when it comes to size / features / power usage) But still, yes technology does keep on marching forward. I feel when Sound Devices entered the market in the 1990's the did a lot to push things forward and push prices down, especially recently with their 600 series. And in particular their 633, which was groundbreaking for its (relatively) low price and very tiny size yet had so much packed into it! However it is the last couple of years which have been breathtaking for folks like ourselves on the lower end, with the release of the Zoom F8 and then the F4. Then two years after the F8 we see Sound Devices respond with their MixPre3/MixPre6 which are kinda sort of similar ish but at least also at a rather low low price too.

Is it that cheap over in Europe? I tent to browse USA stores mostly. I'd certainly go for the KM185 then as a mid range mic? If you can get a good price on it. DPA 4061, six of them. I think maaaaybe Kisaha exaggerated a little in saying twelve years. But if you say half that? Yeah, six years is very reasonable. And for some of us? Yup, could be 12yrs! I could certainly see myself still keeping around my Zoom F4 in 12yrs time. Not as my main one of course! (but at my back up to my back up, or as a freebie rental to hand out to upcoming students)

My point is even for that niche (small, used with a lav & on a very tight budget) the Zoom H1 is not a good recommendation. The Tascam DR10 is.

Wish I had an S4! I'm still using a Samsung J2! Ha I'm using it for my casual vBlogging, but honestly a potato would do better at filming me than the J2's camera!!

Not me.

And Canon only made the 5Dmk2 "mistake" in the first place because they got "forced" into it by Nikon! Because Nikon released their D90 first.

No, we're not saying audio gear will last "forever". But relative to camera gear, audio gear will last you longer. (which means it can be a relatively better investment) Your audio recorders will last you longer than the typical camera life cycle, and microphones will last you at least as long as lenses and probably even longer. I guess my problem is the lack of balance here, how in one thread it is so wrong to spend $1K on audio gear yet on the next thread over it is all ok and normalized to spend $8K on camera gear. And I'm not denying it is a heck of deal! We are on the same page about that :-) I started out with a Tascam DR60D mk1 (well, had a Zoom H1 for a couple of years before then, but I'm not counting that). But I almost kinda get the impression from reading your post that you regard the DR60D and F4 as being on par with each other??? Which is pretty delusional thinking. Is like trying to tell me a T2i and a C300 are the same as each other because they're both 8bit video cameras. Errr.... what?? They're so much more than that! Yes, you can do great work with a DR60D just like we have seen in this forum you can also with a T2i when treated carefully and you work to its strengths (and avoid its weaknesses). But what happens when you move outside that limited range of uses where it shines? The T2i/DR60D will struggle and fail What I'm striving to see in this forum, is greater balance here between camera and sound. So sure if you're using a T2i, then a DR60D is going to be a good match for that. But if you're shooting with say a Panasonic GH5, with a nice set of lenses, gimbal, quality tripod, a decent lighting kit, etc then you shouldn't be using a DR60D at the core of your audio kit! I'd suggest something instead in the range of a DR70D to 633 instead. And where is this comparably priced Sound Devices? If you mean the MixPre6, it still lacks some of the functions/features of the F8/F4. Yet the MixPre6 costs more than the F4. And if you mean the MixPre3 (which costs the same as an F4): the one with only 3 ISO tracks, oh hell no The MixPre3 is a way way to crippled machine to seriously consider. (but then again if you really REALLY want that ultra compact size, and CERTAIN you'd never need more than 3 inputs, then maaaaaybe it might make sense. Maybe) Additionally I find the whole issue of analogue vs digital limiters to be way waaaaay overblown, yes it would be nice if the F4/F8 had anologue limiters too. But it is *not* the big deal most people seem to make it out to be. After all many professional recorders use some form of digital limiters, for instance the latest Zaxcom recorders, or the Sound Devices 633 on inputs 4 to 6. So rather than just saying blindly something like "all digital limiters are BAD, they're all the same, and are always a dealbreaker to me" you should take a more refined approach to it. (personally I'd rather have Zaxcom's Neverclip technology rather than Sound Device's analogue limiters) Also we should remember you should NOT be using your limiters hard on every shot. If you are, you're being an idiot, and should turn down your gain. Limiters are just there as a last gasp insurance safety measure. An even better safety approach (as using limiters of any sort, analogue or digital, is not ideal) is to run a safety track at the same time (which the MixPre6 can't do), to handle the extreme circumstances you might come across. Additionally if you need to think about the source before it even hits your recorder, if you're using wireless and it is distorting before it even reaches you then it doesn't matter what kind of limiters you have! Because of these reasons, and others, the whole analogue vs digital limiters thing is a little overblown. I watched Curtis Judd's video when it was first uploaded! :-) I'm a big fan of his channel. And I even went back and watched that YT video just now all over again just for the hell of it :-D But a few points: 1) he isn't a perfect God of knowledge. For instance it seems flawed to me to promote the Zoom H1 + lav as an option when the Tascam DR10 is so much superior for this niche/price range. 2) he is targeting his YT channel at the low end and/or videographer (not sound recordist). So his remarks need to be remembered within that context But overall he is pretty ok, & I agree with him more often than not. He is also a fan of the Zoom F4 too! (even though the F4 hadn't came out yet at the point of that video upload, he still talks positively about the F4 & recommends waiting for its release) For instance I say (if you've seen my blog post, or even just the comments here on this forum): No budget: Tascam DR60Dmk2 Ultra Low budget: Tascam DR70D Low budget / Semi Pro: Zoom F4 / F8 Entry point for pro grade: Sound Devices 633 And yeah, Curtis Judd pretty mentions the same ones and ranks them like that too.

Maybe Sony is trying harder in the Chinese market because it is a brand new market (relatively speaking) so it will be easy to break in and smash the status quo that is in other countries? Well that is no surprise, they're two of the biggest retailers in the world! Kodak innovated to a limited extent, but they didn't push it, they wanted to protect their cash cow: film. Just like Canon, who is innovating to a small extent, but mostly is trying to protect their products from themselves (vs protecting against competitors!).

With the notable exception of the Zoom F8/F4 (and to a lesser extent, the Sound Devices MixPre6). Which is why we rave on so much about the amazing Zoom F4!! To give a lens analogy, it would be a bit like if Samyang/Rokinon released a 400mm f2.8 AF OIS lens! Would be very surprising, and out of left field, and would be way less in cost than the competition! (although being a 1st generation product, it would lack the maturity/integration/reputation of the big established players).

I keep on kinda hoping the Micro would get a $500 sale too! Would be super tempted to get that! (although I shouldn't.... now I'm fully focused on being a soundie, rather than cameraman) As a 2nd matching camera, with the flexibility of 60fps and having full size HDMI, would be nice! I'd run the BMMCC as the A cam, with the BMPCC as B cam. There is a gulf of a gap between the F3 and AF100 however.

Actually it is *exactly* the same when it comes to sound recording. Just like you have Canon/Nikon as the only option, you have Sonosax/Sound Devices/Zaxcom as the *only* option in the sound world (well ok, Aaton Canter as well, but their cheapest makes Sound Devices look dirt cheap!). So if you want that 400mm f2.8 you have to spend the big bucks for a Zaxcom etc Of course, you could get a Tascam DR70D but that is like settling for a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 instead of a Canon 400mm f2.8 Of course that Tamron might be a perfectly suitable lens for your kids' soccer games. And there is nothing wrong with many people buying a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 if that is right for them. Just like the Tascam DR70D will be the right choice for many people too. But it is a bit insulting to the Canon 400mm f2.8 to think that Tamron can come anywhere near close to it in performance? Likewise if you do a Tascam DR70D vs Sonosax SX-R4+ comparison. & think they're similar. Anyway, nothing wrong with not picking the Canikon 300/400mm f2.8, & nothing wrong with not going with Sonosax / Zaxcom / Sound Devices. Just please remember the context here! We're basically discussing what is the best telezoom kit lens will suit your needs best (or maybe something a little different/better, like the Tamron 18-400mm or streeeetching the budget to a secondhand Sigma 100-300mm f4).

Overcoming the lens issues would havee been less of an issue for Nikon if early on they'd offered a cinema camera (with a sub mount under F mount). Just like how Sony made massive inroads against Canon with the FS7 vs C300. Because people in the cinema world don't care about auto focus and native lenses as much. However it could be too late if Nikon tried to join in now.

If you're a solo shooter on a tight budget, then probably half the features of the F4 you might not appreciate. But if you think in the future there is any chance you might specialise as a location sound recordist, then the Zoom F4 becomes a no brainer choice. I'm picking up six DPA microphones today! :-o This. Sadly this. People quibble over spending a few hundred for audio gear, yet will drop thousands in a blink of an eye on camera gear and lights. Makes me sad when I see sets where the entire audio equipment is costing the same as a single lens the camera department has :-/ Which often is true in the indie low budget world. Of course when I show up... we get the reverse problem! lol Where my entire audio kit is costing more than what the camera department has. Ha Fingers crossed for a Sound Devices 633 mk2! Or a new Sonosax or Zaxcom. Athough it would be better if they don't release anything.... don't think I could afford them this year! :-o I'll be sticking with my Zoom F4 for a while longer ;-) I agree, the Tascam DR60D (I also used to own a DR60D mk1) is not quite the build level of a Sound Devices (or even a Zoom F4), the build quality of the DR60D is still not a big practical concern. If that is all a person can afford, then don't let that factor into holding you back from buying one!

It should, as it covers S35 Also consider the Tokina 11-16mm PL lens as well.

Thanks for that! I would read his blog now and then but has been while. Was a really good! Catching up on these ones for instance: http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2016/7/14/bmpcc-optical-low-pass-filter-swap-no-more-ir-contamination http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2016/2/1/thepocketcameraeffect Oh and of course this one makes an extra good point: http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2015/9/23/cinesound

Surprised you haven't heard much since, it is a very popular camera! The BMPCC of 2017 is a totally different camera from the one they released! (& even the one they released was very good too! Just now you have a drastically better user interface) Yeah, although I own a BMPCC myself, if I was buying today I'd probably go for a Micro rather than a Pocket. As a Micro is like a Pocket v2.0! And I'd never go for a BMCC EF over a BMPCC, and would only prefer a BMCC MFT over a BMPCC is everything is 100% on a tripod. Ohhh!! I didn't know that. Good to know (although I neither own an URSA or Micro :-P ). Hmmm... I have that lens. Never thought about using it on the Pocket, as surely the f8 at best would be a pain in the ass? Am thinking about using my BMPCC with the Panasonic 14mm pancake and the wide angle adapter for it for my vblogging usage. As my cellphone camera is such a total piece of sh*t! Did my latest vblogs with the BMPCC and that lens pairing: But yeah, might give the 9mm bodycap a go if I know I'll be filming outdoors with lots of sunlight. However of course the biggest issue with the BMPCC for vblogging is the lack of a flip up screen! Wish I could buy a super cheap 3" monitor for vblogging, as all I'd want to use it for is framing so 3" would be big enough and I'd love the compact size.

If you just want a simple cheap handheld recorder then go for the Tascam DR22WL What will you be using this for btw? If you want to take it a little bit more seriously, then have a read of my latest blog post before choosing what to buy next: http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/ Yeah, what are you setting your gain to rasilov?

If a person doesn't need: 5th & 6th inputs. Time code. Hirose power connection. XLR outputs. Metadata entry. USB interface. Flexible file naming. (& much more) Then yes the Tascam DR70D could be a worthy lower priced option. But those other things I mentioned are VERY handy. Some are essential even (such as TC & metadata entry) if working as a sound recordist on bit bigger productions. But if you just need the basics of a 4 ISO track recorder then the Tascam DR70D will be fine enough for now.

Hopefully they would? As for a long while they were the *ONLY* English speaking distributor for Kinefinity! :-o

Yes I agree the battery life with the Tascam DR70D is a non-issue. Just use an external power supply! It is quite normal with ALL recorders that if you have a full shoot day, then you just use an external power supply. Even if you've dumped billions of dollars and purchased a new Sound Devices / Zaxcom / Sanosax recorder, then you still use an external power supply. So I don't see it as a massive negative to criticise the DR70D for that, just that the micro USB connection is not as ideal as Hirose. I have never owned a Tascam DR70D, but I used one when I was starting out, when I was the sound recordist for a feature film. And I had an issue with it, also with my Tascam DR60D mk1 that I had at the time, but all was solved with a simple firmware update: http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

Because you need to hang out in the Kinefinity Facebook group for that. Basically is the only place (in English that is, there seem to be places very active in Chinese however) that actively discusses Kinefinity (it almost never comes up on EOSHD, & even less often on many other forums) & has actual Kinefinity owners on it.

The Zoom F4 is the best buy for bang for buck sound recorder right now from the lower priced options. The Zoom F4 is insanely low priced (a steal!) for how much it does. Only if you really need the more inputs or Bluetooth, would I suggest the more expensive F8 instead. And I'd only recommend the MixPre6 (ignore the MixPre3!! Too crippled for its price) if you really REALLY need that HDMI triggering. Otherwise get an F4. If you're on an ultra super tight budget, get a Tascam DR70D. But once you own a DR70D, then there is almost no reason whatsoever to own a H5/H6. Anyway, this is all just a repeat of what I said in my latest blog post: http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

Which is the same more or less as the RED Raven. HOWEVER..... the Kinefinity Terra is massively better than the RED Raven in this instance, because unlike the Raven the Terra has a MFT mount option. Thus it is no more a negative than it was with say the GH2 (and it isn't a negative really! Just look at the feature film Upstream Color, overuse of shallow DoF even! & shot on a GH2). It is already better than the KineMini 4K, being a newer model and a much smaller form factor. And it is a bit of a joke to compare it with the BMPC4K. It will be way ahead of the BMPC4K for sure.

You should probably record 24bits btw

I purchased the Zoom F4 earlier this year, but only just now got around to uploading an unboxing of it that I filmed ages ago on my cellphone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXSLbg8DrqA