Marcio Kabke Pinheiro

Yep, it is good. And they have all the conditions to improve - just look the latest Viltrox lenses, mile sbetter than the 1st ones (I have the 13mm f/1.4 and the 75mm f/1.2 and both are amazing, the 75mm is mind blowing)

Good news - but saw some reviews of their Af lenses, and specially the zooms do not look stellar.

My 2 cents after seeing some reviews as a targeted consumer of this camera - hybrid-enthusiast-amateur. Yes, because if doing videos was my work, don't even would think about this one. It is a rollercoaster of features: some very "high" (good) and some very low (bad). Mostly comparing it to the Fuji XS-20, which looks like the closest competitor. High: - 4K60 and 4K120 available in this price point - and, importantly, the image in these modes are VERY good. (I'm looking to the 1080p 240 from you, Fuji). - Card slot on the side, not on the battery door. - No idiotic filters / effects on the mode dial; - Arguably the best AF on the market, and good to use use manual focus too with the Focus Map feature (never tested it, but looks amazing and almost no one talks about it). - Dedicated switch between stills and video - much better than turning a mode dial.- Small - in the videos I got the impression that the camera is bigger because it looks thicker, but is even smaller than the X-S20. Heck, even smaller than a Panasonic GX85. Low: - Horrible 1080p video, if you want it; - Bitrates looks bad, 100 mbps for 4k24 (but never used XAVC-HD to have an opinion); - Terrible LCD panel for 2023 standards; - No focus joystick - and yes, was just the case to put one on the place of the AF-ON button, and moved the button up. - Bad burst still numbers; - No open gate or DCI 4k; - Dunno if the C modes on dials could be used for video too; About overheating: for people like me (hybrid normal user), and most the "content creators", it is almost a non-issue. Slow-mo is not used a lot, and when used, is for small takes. In fact, for Youtubers, the bad 1080p is more of a concern - a lot of these people still uses 1080p. Overheat could pose a problem for hybrid wedding shooters, I guess. In this regard, the fan of the X-S20 is kinda of a good solution - but if I wanna use Fuji for any professional use, would get a X-H2 or X-H2s. I liked the camera. But, if the X-S20 have AF good enough, is a much better proposition - in fact, Fujifilm released a firmware update yesterday that enhances the AF performance (but, again, no general wide / area tracking). And you have open gate and even the option to get an external recorder and shoot RAW video, for $100 less than the Sony. And, for stills, you have Fuji colors. All goes down to AF performance. For "content creators", is the most important thing - and the reason that ZV-E10 sells like hotcakes. The Canon R7 looks slight ahead than both these ones, but...where are the lenses? The A6700 is terrific for the intended public - and for the boatloads of the A6xxx users, is a no brainer. This one will sell VERY well.

Just got a reply from the local vendor, my X-S20 should arrive only in July 25th. 😐 Fuji AF got better in this last generation - not on par with Sony, Canon or even PDAF Panasonic - but could be enough for me. But not having a Wide / Tracking mode in video is inexcusable. Even OM Digital have a (poor) one. Even Fuji have it for stills, but not for video.

Of course Sony could not deliver everything at once - front dial is there, but no joystick on the back. Ok, since their AF is so reliable, you could always go for tracking and recompose, but a miss anyways. $100 more than a X-S20 (which I guess it is its primary competition). Better in some ways, wors in others. - Back LCD: VERY bad, 1.0 million dots, compared to the 1.8 million of the X-S20. Fuji wins - EVF: both have (probably the same panel) 2.36 mp. The magnification is better on Sony, 0.7x against 0.62 on Fuji. Sony wins. - IBIS: 7 stops on Fuji, 5 on Sony. But all these must be seen in real world. Both are usually bad for video. - Weather sealing: Sony have (even a light one), Fuji not. - As stated, Fuji have joystick, Sony not (only the LCD trackpad). - Video modes: 6.2k open gate on Fuji, not open gate AFAIK on Sony. The bitrates are higher on Fuji too, 4k until 360mbps, 100 mbps on Sony - albeit dunno if there is a huge difference on quality. Since is the same quality of the other Sonys, probably not. - SD card slot on the side for the Sony: always a plus. Looking good for Fuji, my X-S20 is on the way, but...this one is the 1st tempting Sony for me. First, a personal reason: I prefer "rangerfinder" bodies for not-being-noted reasons. Second: because Sony already have a AF mode perfect for me, that ONLY Fujifilm does not have for video: have a single AF point on the frame, half press, track the subject. No more worries tracking a person in frame, with a lot of people behind. Ths X-S20 have (kinda of a lot) things better in my opinion: open gate, Film Simulation for stills, AF joystick, maybe a better IBIS (some user reports are saying that is much better for video now). But the video AF in the Fujis is currently my worse problem - and looks like that a general tracking in video will never be implemented. And there are some user reportings emerging about overheating in video with the X-S20. Will test when mine arrives. But reliable AF in a rangefinder body is starting to make me thinking about Sony.

Don´t remember if I already asked you: I know that 32-bit float give a lot of room (in fact, almost make it impossible) to sound do not clip. But if the sound already comes clipped from the microphone (recording a loud concert that exceeds the SPL of the mic), the recovering of the clipping is impossíble, right?

Yep, I'm a (each time less) "enthusiast" 🙂 If this is my work, for sure would be using FF too. But just want to get good images, document family and trips. And when you're travelling and want to shoot on streets, nothing better than a "rangefinder" - noboy cares. You pull a DSLRish camera, everyone start to notice and get grumpy. And is perfect to record concerts, never was barred by security with a GX. Already said that a GX10 with a decent EVF, 10 bit video (even with 30 min limit) and PDAF would be a perfect camera for me. But...each day becomes more clear that m43 for Panny looks like GH and (maybe) a G9 sucessor. No more GXs. For OM Digital, god only knows. Lenses - only big Pro ones. All that I don't want. Waiting for my X-S20, arrives in a 2 or 3 weeks. Not rangefinderesque, but small enough to be perceived as a P&S. Solved or mitigate most of the problems that I have with the X-S10 (horrendous battery life, better af, better IBIS, with 10-bit I finally could try F-log), but kept one of the worst problems, common to all Fuji: no old school object tracking in video. In which Sony is very good. Than Sony releases a rangefinderesque camera with better ergos, amazing AF, probably the same sensor in a Bayer version...for sure not now, but in the future, could make me switch. Still hoping that Fuji hire some Olympus guy for IBIS and some Sony guys for AF, but is just hope.

And good parts of the body, judging from the first image leaks in Sonyalpharumors. Sony are completely tools for me, zero feeling. But this one get my attention - a "rangefinder" body (which looks like, with the looking death of the GX line by Panasonic, and the rumors that there will not be a X-E5 from Fuji, will be the only one in the market, together with the A7C), good AF, dual dials (finally)...

Update: pre-ordered it, probably will be in my hands around July 15th. Recording a school party of my daughter was the decisive point: can't stand the battery life of the X-S10 anymore. Taken 15 stills, made two 4k24p videos (both around 6 minutes), and the first battery was already with one bar. Just hoping that I don't get tempted for the upcoming A7600 from Sony.

Really? I guess that when you downsample a 6.2k area to 4k you have some (maybe minor) benefits on the image.

Good point.

Same here. And it is not impossible - the Fuji X-S20 have a bigger sensor (APS-C), a bigger battery, and now have 10-bit video. Put a bigger battery sideways, like the X-S10, bring the mount a little closer to the grip, and you have space for a good EVF on the side. https://camerasize.com/compare/#908,770 A GX with 10-bit video, good IBIS (the GX9's IBIS is already better than Fuji's for video, personal experience), PDAF, a non-field sequential EVF (even the X-S20 2.36mp would be enough) - would be perfect. But looks like that "rangefinder" styled bodies are negleted form the manufacturers. OM digital does not have one, Panasonic is quiet (and I guess a new GX camera will never exist), Fuji dumbed down the X-E4 and there are a lot of rumors that a X-E5 will never exists...only Sony looks like that will release the A6700 and the A7C II, but with that atrocious commands.

I don't think that it is a open mount - in fact, only Panasonic, Leica and Sigma offers AF lenses to L-mount. Sony have Sony, Sigma, Tamron, Viltrox, Samyang, Yongnuo with AF lenses.

Already said that in the forum - I'm an amateur (each day more amateur, in fact...), and started seriously in stlls / video with MFT; a GH2, in fact. Still have it here, and will never let it go (part because of nostalgia, part because the value is so low now - and its colors have something). Compactness and discretion were (and is) my motto - and MFT still the champion in ths regard. And, for years, was more than enough for me. First problem was PDAF. Never bothered my old use cases - travel, concert shooting, streets. CDAF and Single AF worked very well in all these situations. But then I became a father, and a child running around soon reverted all that - Continuous AF became mandatory, specially in video. My loved GX9 was out (albeit its eye detection works even better than current Fujis). Only PDAF cameras in MFT: the Olympuses, E-M1s and E-M5 MKIII. The latter would work very well for me, despite video being not on par with Panasonics. But I sensed that OM Digital and Panasonic wanted to make the format a niche one. Adventure / wildlife for OM, video only for Panasonic. And looks like I was right. OM put all efforts in a wildlife / adveture body (the OM-1), and all the new lenses are big zooms and big Pro lenses, a lot of them bigger and heavier than APS-C ones. Panasonic released the GH6 (the first GH model full target to video, for stills the GH5 and specially yhe G9 are better), and the only new lens was the 9mm (terrific, would buy one in pre-order if already in the system) for the vlogger crowd, prior to that were only the big f/1.7 zooms. The body size advantage was gone; and now the lenses too. Had to forcefully moved to Fuji. Still have the GH2, my E-P1, and kept the Oly 45mm and the 12-32 zoom to use with them. Maybe will get a used E-M5 MK III or OM-5 used in the future, and always keep looking for a Pen-F, the most beautiful digital camera ever made. But I guess that Panasonic will give a last try with a GH with PDAF, if not suceeed will leave the format. And OM will stay small, surfing the wildlife crowd to the last possible moment. Lots of missed oportunities in the format - market claiming for a X100V and Panasonic not taking the oppportunity to a new LX100, a smaller and MUCH more versatile camera. Or a new Pen F with a new pancake fast lens. Or newer zooms without OIS, smaller and lighter, like the Sigma 18-50 f/2.8 APS-C. Would like to see a future for the format besides a niche one, but I can't.

Quick update - the guy from Hybrid Shooter is testing the X-S20, and just replied to me that the 4k30 had no crop, and probably is a mistake from Fujifilm. Let's see.

And...there is one caveat in the X-S20 that nobody is talking much. If you record 6.2k open gate, 10-bit 4:2:2, both ALL-I or Long Gop (H265), there is no crop on the image. But if you record DCI ou 4k with 10-bit 4:2:2, both ALL-I or H.265, there is a 1.1x crop with digital stabilization enabled, and (this is REALLY unlogical) a 1.18x crop WITHOUT digital stabilization. This crop is applied in all framerates and all bitrates (in the X-S20 case, 360, 200, 100 and 50 mbps). If you go 8-bit, same 1.1 or 1.18x crop in 60p (as expected), but no crop in 30 or 24p (only 1.1x with digital stabilization). It is kind of worse than X-T4, where you can record 30p / 24p DCI or 4k h.265 ou ALL-I 400mbps without a crop, albeit in 10-bit 4:2:0 (don´t know if it is much worse than 4:2:2). Since open gate in the X-S20 is recorded without a crop, the problem is the oversampling in 4k and DCI; but the sensor is the same, and the X-S20 processor is supposed to be faster. But 4:2:2 is so much processor intensive than 4:2:0, even in a lower bitrate (360mbps in the X-S20, 400Mbps in the X-T4), to justify a 1.18x crop? Since one of my interests is 10-bit video, this concerns me a lot. Will have to shoot always open gate to have 10-bit uncropped? But how is the open gate quality, since it is not oversampled?

Chris and Jordan said in a PetaPixel podcast that they did not reviewed the X-S20 because...no unit was sent to them, as I suspected. Looks like Fuji really prioritized Europe - in the last days lots of reviews popped on Youtube from European people, and looks like there was a paid Malta trip to try the camera. Don't know if there was really few units available and Fujifilm in USA and Canada had no units available, but there it is. Unfortunately, most of the reviews are 80% talking about the features and very few movie tests. In fact, the most useful review was from a Australian fashion photographer, Julia Trotti, which plugged a HDMI recorder on camera and went to a photo shoot, and made some test videos. She had zero intention to be technical, but was the only one that showed the new AF system in action. I've brought my X-S10 to a playground and made still and video from my daughter, using the Sigma 18-50 and boy, did not remembered that the AF was SO bad. Specially shots when eye / face detection af target is green, but looking in the computer after the shot was out of focus. And was with only her in the frame - if my wife was in the frame too, the af target goes nuts and jumps constantly between them (albeit looks like that it is not a Fuji exclusive behaviour - saw reports that it happens with other brands too). Video was a tad better, but using single area af and movinf the box with the joystick. If Fuji had object tracking in vídeo, probably would be "perfect" (not pin sharp, but it is not critical as it is in stills). Comparing to the footage of the camera interface in the Julia's videos with my experience in the weekend, looks like (comapred to the X-S10): - The eye / face detection works better and with the subject farther, in stills. - Better in movies too, but saw some points losing the af. - But it looks like that Fuji AF still is behind the competition - worse for sure than Sony and Canon, probably than Nikon, and a little behind from Panasonic in the S5II. I will probably upgrade, because of the battery (the playground shot was around 70 stills and 5 minutes of 4k video, and the battery already dropped more than half the charge), 10-bit video (never used any log mode beacuse of the 8-bit in the X-S10) and the better-ish AF - and since Kaizen is dead, any more improvements on Fujifilm will the in the cameras with the newer processor. But I think will no be a very big improvement.

Very interested in the camera, probably will upgrade, but...it was a VERY strange launch. First, all the usual suspects that do reviews for video (the now Petapixel couple, Gerald Undone, Toneh, Kai, etc) did not got units, as they usually do. From the more traditional reviewers, only Gordon Laing and Cine-D got one. And...almost no one showed the new AF system in full action, or described it in detail. Most of them said (and could be true) that they got units with no final firmware. Other, like Chris from Pal2Tech (the great surprise in the review batch - he is a very good Fuji reviewer, but never got an unit) showed a little, said that was way better than all the Fuji that he used, even better than X-T5 post firmware update. He had a excuse - only got the unit for 2 days, and was sent by a Fuji representative, no Fuji itself. Another reviewers also mentioned very short time with the camera. Also in this regard - most of the reviewers are european, specially british ones. But most of them, never heard before. My two cents: - There were not a lot of ready units available, hence people have to test it breifly and return the camera to be sent to another reviewer; - About AF tests: or (the "I hope" answer) the firmware as not totally final and will got more tweaks before release, hence it was not allowed deep tests, or (the "damn..." answer) the AF still not good enough and Fuji hope to move some units in preorder before the not so good news becomes spread.

Probably Amazon kept online to try to find a buyer. Same as Imaging Resource, which is back online but without new content. Hard to sell a product that don't "exist".

(sorry for the 3 reply, the browser went nuts here)

Yep, the main reason for me to keep the Sigma is the constant aperture - most for the hassle to readjust exposure / ND filter after changing the focal lenght. About OIS, yes, is a necessity for non-IBIS bodies (and the OIS of the 18-55 Fuji is kinda good for video, for OIS standarts), but with OIS, it performed better than the Fuji - because Fuji tune their IBIS for photos, not for video. With the Fuji, small movements becomes "jumpy", because you start the move the camera, and suddenly IBIS realizes it and tries to catch up; with the 18-55 OIS, this behaviour is amplified. With the Sigma, it is less apparent. To Fuji becomes perfect, they need to hire an AF guy from Sony and a IBIS guy from OM Digital or Panasonic...

Yep, the main reason for me to keep the Sigma is the constant aperture - most for the hassle to readjust exposure / ND filter after changing the focal lenght. About OIS, yes, is a necessity for non-IBIS bodies (and the OIS of the 18-55 Fuji is kinda good for video, for OIS standarts), but with OIS, it performed better than the Fuji - because Fuji tune their IBIS for photos, not for video. With the Fuji, small movements becomes "jumpy", because you start the move the camera, and suddenly IBIS realizes it and tries to catch up; with the 18-55 OIS, this behaviour is amplified. With the Sigma, it is less apparent. To Fuji becomes perfect, they need to hire an AF guy from Sony and a IBIS guy from OM Digital or Panasonic...

Yep, the main reason for me to keep the Sigma is the constant aperture - most for the hassle to readjust exposure / ND filter after changing the focal lenght. About OIS, yes, is a necessity for non-IBIS bodies (and the OIS of the 18-55 Fuji is kinda good for video, for OIS standarts), but with OIS, it performed better than the Fuji - because Fuji tune their IBIS for photos, not for video. With the Fuji, small movements becomes "jumpy", because you start the move the camera, and suddenly IBIS realizes it and tries to catch up; with the 18-55 OIS, this behaviour is amplified. With the Sigma, it is less apparent. To Fuji becomes perfect, they need to hire an AF guy from Sony and a IBIS guy from OM Digital or Panasonic...

Good question, will take a look of the 1080p in my X-S10, I think that I never used it (except for some 240fps test, which are - and, AFAIK, stays - an utterly crap). A lot of the midrange Panasonics (GX9 for sure, the GX85 too I think) had bad 1080p too.

Thing is: we're a bunch of old people that not understand what the newer generations like, specially because it looks like crap for us. Exactly what our parents thought when saw us listening to Nirvana. 🙂 It amazes me how people now just use their smartphones for EVERYTHING. I do a good amount of stock trading to manage my saved money, and I could not imagine a worst use case than trying to use a real time trading platform on a phone - but more than a half of the people that I saw in the support channels are unding a phone. Specially because a lot (and I mean a lot) of young people does not even have a computer more, desktop or notebook. Only a phone. Bad or not, it is the reality. And for a vídeo that the main subject is a person, when the background does not have so much importance, vertical video is much better to see in a phone - the person appears bigger. Only realized it after being a father and filming my daughter - she is the focus, and in most for the filming is capturing her movements, her interactions. To see and share it to my parents, 3000 kms far from here, which will see on their phones, is a much better orientation. If your target group uses prominently one tipe of media consumption device, is good advice to optimize for it. Second: I am in a Telegram group of a channel from a couple that makes reviews and do filmmaking courses (kinda good, but focused in content creation), that mostly talk about gear. The majority of people there are starters in content creation, from filming product showcases to weddings. Young people, very tight budget. A lot of them do the filming for influencers - static things like the influencer making product showcases or moving takes for lifestyle. For these guys, even when their primary deliver is horizontal content for Youtube, vertical shooting is a VERY considered asset - almost all of them have a gimbal, and one of the top 3 topics considered is how easy and good is a gimbal to make vertical shooting. Because, for almost all the Youtube videos that they do, a vertical short cut is needed to go to social media. And for this bunch, the most coveted camera is the Sony ZV-E10, with Viltrox and Sigma primes - cheap and with good enough results, much better than a smartphone. No IBIS - but they already have a gimbal. No need for EVFs, they grown looking a phone screen. The most advanced ones liked the FX30 - the great Sony AF for video is key fo them. The availablity of good lenses as the Viltroxes too - each day more I think that the Canon decision to block 3rd party lenses is a shot oh the foot, the previous preferred camera for this crowd was the Canon SL3... And none have "artistic whishes" about their filming - they want a result good enough to compete on market. And I think is a driving force now on market - all this "vlog" cameras appearing shows that. In this Telegram group almost 150 people bought ZV-E10s. But none do that "vlog" style that erroneously people use for reviews, camera on hand, walking. Almost all are tripod or gimbal shots, no walking, a determined subject, background depending on case. Is a very different world that we are accustomed. No better, no worse, just is it.