maxotics

Sorry, what I meant is that there are still circumstances where you can get the black orb problem. I didn't mean to imply that Blackmagic didn't fix it for most circumstances or didn't update the cameras in a way that most people would consider fixed.

I never said "It's not an issuse for me!" Why are you misquoting me? (especially since I said I don't own the camera). Also, I never said to sweep the issue under the rug. QUITE THE OPPOSITE! I say, let's all figure it out. I doubt it can be fixed in firmware. The black-orb problem with BM is still an issue, from what I understand. Everyone hates the jello-effect, but no one says to fix it in firmware because most people now have some idea of why it happens. This problem is probably very similar, a sensor/electronics issue. If someone knows exactly why this is happening, and how it can be fixed, by all means, let's boycott Sony! :) Otherwise, let's assume they may know more than we do and that the camera is the best they can do for the moment. It won't work well in all situations--LIKE ALL CAMERAS. That's why there are professionals. They know how to use equipment in the real world!

No worries Smon22, I don't deserve no respect ;) I don't work for Sony or have any friends there. Believe me, I sympathize with your plight. But what option do you have? Sony is never going to say what the problem is, or give any indication if, or when, they will ever fix it. Though I'm putting it poorly, I'm just saying you want to focus on what can be done. 1. If you're shooting a scene without blue-blow-out lights is the A7S the superior camera? If so, is it worth it? 2. If you're shooting a scene with blue-blow-out lights can you A) fix it in post (by matting the blue out) find some setting/filter that mitigates it? There are experts who have posted ideas here, so my original message was, A) do you want to engage their help in fixing it; or b) do you want sympathy? It may be that consumer Sony cameras are just not going to work for the kind of stuff you want to film. Again, I sympathize, just trying to save you some time ;)

There is no "other camera" to the A7S for low light photography/video ;)

Thanks Matt! I'm interested enough for 10 people ;) How long will it shoot continuously? @araucaria if ONLY there was a thumbs down button! :) I cannot match the footage from my GM1, no matter how hard I try, to match the tonal feel of Blackmagic RAW. I'd love see you do more of this Matt!

If this is a known problem then why is it not an operator problem as I suggested (though again, didn't mean to be so harsh). As Sunyata explained above this is probably more of a problem with red and green channel data from the sensor. It seems some people don't understand how color images are created in the camera, how bayer sensors work, what debayering is, the decisions engineers must make in taking 12-14 bit single color data, marrying it to neighboring color data, and creating a single 8-bit color value. ALL cameras I've ever worked with struggle with sensor data that is at the extremes. The Sigmas have magenta fringing, for example. Nikons don't allow you to set ISO that high with slog type curves (so we'll never know). This MAY BE a problem that can be fixed. I don't know. But if, as you say, this has been a problem since the NEX cameras, it tells me they've made other trade-offs (maybe using the pixels for focusing is hampering some of their in-camera debayering?)

First, I apologize if my post above was harsh--I had a toothache. It's been written elsewhere that this large-pixel sensor has a weakness in low-ISO dynamic range. Every camera, every technology, has trade-offs. Credit Andrew with not babying his audience ;) > ...combination of Sony Sony is providing a camera for low light. They're focused on getting the moonlight right, not the sun blazing through the window. I'm not sure what they can do in camera that will fix this problem without taking up chip energy. My guess is that there are post processing tricks to isolating the color blow-outs and removing them. Fitting 24bit color into an 8-bit color space--ON THE FLY--is difficult for all cameras. I'd say 80% of this forum is about working around the problems that arise from that. > .... reviewers doing research I doubt it would occur to reviewers to test against high energy lights, at high ISO, ESPECIALLY the funky color spectrums of LEDs and theatrical lights! Even at low ISO, those lights play havoc with your colors. > ... I guess it won't be corrected Again, that implies this is something broken that can be fixed. It's like hearing about someone driving their Ferarri into a mud bank and complaining that Ferrari won't fix their cars so they can get out ;) You would think Sony would provide s-log in all their cameras. At least I wondered why they didn't. This situation has helped me understand why there are very good reasons these gamma curves are not put in consumer cameras.

Some of the posts here talk about this problem as if some engineers or employees of Sony boozed it up at lunch and put together some defective cameras. Sorry, but this is an operator problem. As Andy pointed out, shoot at a reasonable ISO and pull up what you can. The sensor always shoots around ISO 100 or 200, when you shoot video at 12,800 or something like that you're actually pushing the signal processor to the point that it might pick up light from a black hole ;) Please, learn the technology behind the camera. There are already some people here who have posted some shooting-tactics and are obviously very knowledgeable. Telling them it's Sony's problem doesn't honor the time they put into their explanations. If I was Sony I might decide to pull s-log from their consumer cameras. Is it worth the bad press? Everyone should keep these things in mind before bashing high-end features in these cameras :)

I had no idea The Doctor had spoken :)

Sharpness is actually a function of contrast between neighboring pixels. In 8-bit images it is possible to increase contrast, but difficult to take it away. You can easily make your footage as sharp as you want in your NLE, or post, so I wouldn't worry about it looking soft out of the camera. Naturally, you should do a few tests to ascertain this for yourself. If you're always going to shoot to the camera's default sharpness leave it alone in camera to save you a step in post.

Nice video tellure! I have the 10-18 too. If I was shooting video only I'd be fine with a Panasonic and the 7-12 lens, but for photography the a6000 and 10-18 is an awesome combination (I've also used the 10-18 full-frame, on the a7). Bigger sensor, less noise (DOF aside). I too wish the a7s a7ii weren't the only cameras with slog. You can definitely get a "flimic" look with both the APS-C and MFT sensor cameras, but I agree with PabloGrollan, they have different looks that go beyond DOF calculations. I don't know which I like better.

I couldn't have been wrong with a nicer image ;)

@Matt, those who can't do, cheat ;) I didn't go to count the colors, I saw a button that said "Count Colors" in FastStone so I thought, why not? Made it harder for me because not what I expected! I'm starting to see some vids on Vimeo where the NX1 seems to have better DR, or better feel, than any GH4 footage I've seen. THAT'S WHAT I'M DYING to see Andrew look into. For me, RAW-like DR is still the Siren song. @vesku, I noticed that too. Camera shake?

'A' looks like RAW to me, but it has 294,566 colors to 'B's 326,664. There's either a contrast/saturation difference or if B is video, the extra colors are noise. It's really difficult to do this kind of comparison because in a properly exposed image it will end up in the gamut our monitors can show, so the relative difference between each color will be the same. Anyway, my final vote is A as RAW, the labels, the texture of the page, the bar-code on up-left, are cleaner, more detailed in the right way.

I'm curious too about the silent shutter. When Ebrahim said the 750 had no moire I was tempted back to Nikon again, but I know I'd miss the EVF. One thing I didn't like about the a7 was the startup time, but the latest firmware seems to improve that quite a bit. I love the weight/build of the Nikons, but I'm not a professional so favor the smaller/lighter cameras. Anyway, you can use all your NIkon glass on the Sony cameras, so it's only a question of your d700 body. Don't know if you used any old Nikon, or manual glass, with the a7s. If you haven't, think that would probably put your over the edge. Every old lens you see at a flea market will bring you lots of fun with the Sony, at least they do me

I actually think it a blessing because it seems you may need more time to pick your camera, long-term. Borrow any Canon/Nikon from a friend is what I'd suggest. Don't worry too much about the expose to the right (which is really better with RAW; h.264 isn't as forgiving). Also, your DP is going to be focused on shots he wants to do, it sounds like you represent the client. In any case, ONE of you needs to pay attention to making sure you get the shots you need. Shooting should be second-priority to one of you. Many of my favorite videos and photographs were taken with old cameras I never meant to use but had to, for one reason or another. And to follow-on to what Leeys says, don't try new stuff at shoots, you never know what hiccups you can run into. Borrow a camera, put it on auto mode, and focus on framing, composition, and help your main DP. You'll have fun and I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised! One story, I went to my niece's concert and they said no photography. Don't know why, they usually didn't say that. Anyway, I had brought a BMPCC to use, was really excited. But I knew it would be obvious if I took it out. And ushers did go through the audience slapping wrists of camera users. I also had a Panasonic G5 with me, which I had gotten about a day or so earlier, knew little about, so I put it on auto mode and shot through my coat. The video was great! Better than I would have gotten with the BMPCC--definitely a lot longer ;) It PAID TO BE AN IDIOT :) Don't sweat not having the camera you want for your shoot!

Yes and no. The only real difference between the BMPCC and the GM1 is that the BMPCC has peltier cooling around the sensor, and the circuitry, allowing it to dump up to 30 frames a second of RAW sensor data, either as DNGs, or compressed into ProRes. That means you can make it look more "film like" if you want, because you're dealing with 12-bit depth frames, but you can also do what the GM1 does in camera before writing to the card, make it 8 bit with about 6-8 stops of DR. Keep in mind, the BMPCC has as hard a workflow, and focus gotchas, as the GM1 has as easy a workflow and good autofocus. Others can chime in here, but I have a radical idea for you. Shoot your A-cam the GM1 and make the BMPCC the backup. I say this because I worry, if you don't have a lot of experience, that you may not be able to grade the BMPCC to something you like. It's true that it gives you a lot more flexibility in post, but can also be unforgiving if you don't expose it correctly. What I LOVE about the Pannys is they give me good video in idiot mode. Not true with the BMPCC. On the lights, you should know that all lights have CRI rating, that is, how even they illuminate each color. I don't have much experience with LEDs, but I believe you would get better food color from quartz-halogon than LED. LEDs are better these days, but I'd be wary. These are things working DPs can work around. Seems you're dealing with a lot of unknowns. Maybe use the BMPCC for the food shots where the color depth may help (and you can take your time) and use the GM1 for the people scenes and long-shots where people are impatient.

If you go after a certain type of dynamic range none of the Panasonic cameras will match the bmpcc. I have a GM1 and love it, but it doesn't have near the DR as a RAW based camera. I don't know what "look" you're going for. If you try to maximize the strengths of the BMPCC it will work against you with the 8-bit cameras. Here's a video I did about my choice of going with the GM1 instead of BMPCC for personal stuff You'll see certain scenes where the BMPCC has a kind of lighting depth the GM1 can't match, like the basement of the Goodwill. Or my desk. Outside in high contrast, they can probably match very well. The small size of the GM1, and it's ability to mount all kinds of lenses, makes it a unique camera. The silent shutter is also very useful. As Andy says, it is better in low light than the g6, so even though 10%, I think it makes enough of a difference to lose the EVF (or go with GX7). I have an a6000 too. Great camera, and better low light than the GM1 BUT will still not match the BMPCC in my opinion. Where the a6000 can have shallower DOF than the GM1, and less noise, the Panasonic image is cleaner. Again, though I'm saying you may have problems matching to the BMPCC, the Panny cameras are amazing if you've never used one. In fact, I had a guy in my office today who shoots professionally on Canon gear and when he played with the GM1 he was floored. In short, I believe you will have problems matching cameras, but if you experiment before hand, in what you want to shoot, and with what camera, you can find ways to match them fine and YES, the GM1/G6/GX7 will allow you to get shots you can't get with the BMPCC. As Andy said, "Amateurs talk bodies, pros talk glass, and photographers talk light."

Me too!!!! I'd also be interested in seeing the GH4 with best dynamic range pitted against straight h.264 out of the a7s.

Hi Ebrahim, all the aliasing tests for the 750 I've seen were not shot in a way that I feel suitably tests it. Are you using a 750 and can you, have you, shot bright thin lines in hard light? I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not convinced ;) Especially from Nikon. My 600 could create moire with a bowl of porridge! (of course, big Nikon stills fan). And if there is no aliasing I'm going to wonder if the resolution is paying the price. BTW, now that I have a better idea how S-Log works, I WANT IT BAD! It seems to solve my biggest complaint about most of these cameras (lack of dynamic range detail). BH is having a deal on BMPCCs where you can get camera and $400+ lens and some other stuff for $995. Thinking of getting back into RAW misery. $2,500 for the A7S, body only, ouch! :( However, the a7II opening with a $1,700 price. Not an easy decision here! The video from the a7 ain't bad. And I have lots of old lenses that wouldn't mind a little stabilization. Will be curious to see what Andrew thinks after more time with the camera.

I didn't the demo video looked that bad. Yes there were some micro-jitters, but when Andrew seemed to have the camera steady it looked very nice. About the aliasing, guess I have a bone to pick here :) Without full sensor pixel binning (which requires a lot of processing/energy) aliasing/moire is always to be expected in full-frame with high pixel counts (unlike a7S). I feel most people on this forum understand this. Can we knock Sony for aliasing in a 24mp full-frame camera? Video-wise, you choose either shallow DOF/aliasing or Not-so-shallow DOF/cleaner image. There are some low-light and saturation issues in there too. Even with the A7S, you give up some dynamic range in low ISO. For the consumer market, I see this as another win for Sony. Of course, great review as always! I'd like to understand more about XVACs and S-Log. How does it compare to say the ProRes you get out of a BM camera.

delete wasn't on topic

Nice work FuzzyNormal ! What did you shot the Antenna company video with?

I have the GM1, which is essentially the GX7 in tinfoil. A test I'd like to see if the GH4 1080 compared to the GX7/GM1 1080. My guess is that it would be very close. The focus peaking is very important, especially with old lenses, as you know. The bitrate might make a difference if you have a lot of motion, but I can never see it. To me, there is either RAW or H.264 when it comes to real data depth. Bitrate-wise, the only benefit to GH4, if you're scaling down to 1080, and you're not zooming into it anywhere, is you eliminate most moire--but that isn't a huge problem with these cameras. Andy would know better than me, I guess what I'm saying is that the GX7 is even almost good as the GH4 if you're only shooting 1080 so would be a perfect camera for you because it has the best balance of size and interchangeable lenses. Some other things I like about the Panasonic cameras is they have menus dedicated to video settings. The Android remote app is THE best camera/video app out there. I was trying out the Sony remote app and it doesn't do video! Another nice feature of these cameras is the silent shutter.

Way to take the high ground and answer the critics by putting more time into the CM1. You didn't need to do that. But thanks!!!! I know I'm an exception, but I don't live through my cell phone. In fact, I'd go back to "feature" phones if it wasn't for some "corporate" email accounts I have. So for me, having this kind of a camera on the phone would be nice. So the comparisons to the iPhone are meaningless to me. You made a point about the lens sticking out. I think the bigger blunder is they used a chrome ring. What street photographer wants that (a good market for phone)? I guess you can paint it. Not having 24/25 fps, from Panasonic of all companies, another HUH!. On the 15fps, I wonder if the camera can do faster photo FPS with the fastest cards available. I might be wrong, but I think my GF3 will do continuous at a higher rate than published on a faster card. Something you may want to test in the future. Again, thanks for the review! I'm going to look for the U.S. release.