fuzzynormal

Here's a decent argument for PC: https://youtu.be/7rkZTTRdiWA Also, another wrinkle is that I'd like to have a system for the assistant editor to work on simultaneously. The cost of 2 modest PC's that'll handle 4K, vs. the cost of 2 high-end iMacs that'll handle 4K... well, the number between the 2 systems really starts to get, let's say, "unfortunate." On the other hand, I really like OS X, the FCPX option, and ProRes. But, I don't know if those "likes" are worth +$3.5K. As much as I am loathe to admit it, unless yore editing with FCPX, I think the Apple products are not terribly competitive at the moment. Of course, this assumes that a home-built PC will be as stable as a Mac system. That's still the wild card I can't figure out yet.

Indeed. At the moment I'm waffling mightily. While I think that an iMac system would be nice and easy, when I price out what you can do with a PC system, it's just bonkers price-to-performance (on paper). If I wasn't burned so many times in the past with Microsofts OS', I think I'd be more "gung-ho!" to give Resolve on Windows a shot. For instance: The HP z820 can be had for 2K. It includes Dual Intel Xeon Six Core Processors E5-2640 @2.5GHz, 128GB RAM, and the graphic card is NVIDIA Quadro 4000 2GB PCI Express. I think I'd also like to add the new GTX1080 and have 3 Dell UltraSharp U2515H 25-Inch monitors. That's 2k for the PC + $700 for the extra GTX1080 card + $370 + $370 + $370 So, is it fair to assume this would be a very robust and stable system to effectively handle Resolve, edit 25 minute docs shot in the mp4 4k format, and run the 3 monitors? This set-up would still be cheaper than an iMac system running 3 monitors, and arguably much faster. But what about stability? Does Resolve crash often on Windows or has it proven to be rock solid? Don't know yet, still trying to suss it out. Plus, if I go PC, then I don't have the FCPX safety net to fall back on if Resolve has any issues. I don't know what to think of Adobe these days. I've used Premiere a bit but it just feels clunky.

Fun footage. I'd say it would have even more potential if you put the camera on something that had a lot of mass: For instance, something as cheesy as this would actually make a world of difference: https://fstoppers.com/diy/make-diy-steadicam-style-camera-stabilizer-71819 BTW, what's the shutter speed, ISO, and f-stop of that footage? This footage does show the inherent limitations of a 5-axis stabilizer. As been mentioned, 5-axis does not mean the camera can be used like a steady cam, (seems to be a misconception about that) but if you make the right shooting decisions (i.e. FOV, disciplined shooting technique) you can still get useful steadycam-emulated stuff with 5-axis helping out a little bit.

Is that something you've done, or are doing in the future? I'd like to hear your testimony regarding a Resolve/PC system. I've read mixed reviews online regarding stability with Resolve12 on a Windows PC. With so many individuals doing custom builds of PC's it's hard to discern if it's a goofy computer problem because someone assembled cheap PC components in a strange way, or the fact that Resolve isn't as stable as it should/could be on Windows. I just want to get something up and running and then forget about it. Just have it do the job, you know? At the very least, I know if Resolve poops out on the Mac I can fall back to FCPX and have a stable way forward. More important than the expense is the ability to work without issue. Not only do I need the time to focus on editing, I truly don't want to be trouble shooting computer components anymore, I did enough of that back in the day. So, the "turnkey" viability of something (PC or a Mac) is super important. Maybe the better question to my original post should be this: If any of you have 4-$4.5K to buy and run a relatively glitch free Resolve editing system with 3 monitors, what would be your recommended *works-right-out-of-the-box-stably-system? ( *understood that I would nuke the pre-installed system files and do a clean re-install of the OS )

Polarizer on the lens?

That's certainly my experience with the LUMIX cameras I own. ExTele is a neat-o feature, but low ISO is recommended.

I'm considering a lot of options, but I think it's just more practical at this time, with the project I have, to buy a nice sedan rather than building a hot rod, if you know what I mean.

That does look interesting, and yeah, the form factor is impressive. Still, not much info on the IQ of the monitor...And doesn't even ship until August, so it's a non-starter. Ugh. I like the idea of having a cheap PC I can just keep swapping components in and out as needed for upgrading, but my history of doing that back in the day really makes me uncomfortable. Such a PITA when it doesn't work right or gets a little glitchy.

Looks like I can get a pretty good iMac-w/extra-monitors for around $4K. A bit on the high side, but I'm going to be living in front of the thing for awhile, gotta make it nice. 27" Retina 5K IPS Display 5120 x 2880 Screen Resolution 4.0 GHz Intel Core i7 (Skylake) 16GB of 1867 MHz DDR3 RAM 2TB Fusion Drive AMD Radeon R9 M395X GPU (4GB GDDR5) Still, the PC options look nice too and offer the ability to expand to more muscly graphics cards in the future if needed...but dealing with the compatibility issues and tech quirks, it's hard to justify. My main concern is trying to edit AVCHD. Haven't heard a clear answer yet wander the internet wilderness. Some folks say no problem, but I'm concerned as I need to work with a lot more media for documentary stuff; could bog down. Also, anyone have an idea how the AMD Radeon R9 M395X graphics card with 4GB of GDDR5 vRAM is at pushing pixels across 3 monitors? Seems like a lot to ask?

Well, I'm buying a new computer for editing with (most likely) Resolve. I've assembled enough PCs in the past to know I'm not at all interested in burning time to do it again. There's editing to be done; not interested in tweaking bios boot settings.

Held off as long as I can. One gets attached to an editing platform and it never seems like a good time to make the change...butt... Now I'm shopping to reset my desktop editing set-up. Trying to find something decent within a modest budget. With that in mind I'm going to give Resolve a shot since it's free. On the hardware side it will most likely be a new 27" iMac with two monitors flanking it. The iMac is $2k. Not a great price nor a bad one. I'd consider it a decent value because of the display. However, any recommendations for two good-value monitors that handle color professionally that I should consider buying?? As far as that goes, when using Resolve do I transcode to a mezzanine format or stay native? I'd like to stay native. My first "big-lifting" with Resolve will involve a series of 6 25 minute docs. Would Resolve on that iMac hardware run smooth if editing native AVCHD? Also, if anyone is running or has attempted to run a similar Resolve system I'd love to hear your thoughts. Or, if you're aware of potential shortcomings with my plan, let me know!

Weird, isn't it? I wonder what it is then? More a matter of curiosity than anything at this point.

I'd guess "c," but I sure as heck can't figure it out. I'd really assume my user error on this, which is why I'd like to see footage from other LUMIX cams @60p60ss. I'd try on my GM1, but it's 60i only. At any rate, I've decided to buy the new GX85, so I suppose it's all a bit of a moot point. I'll be using the newer camera regardless. However, you're right about the issue needing to be documented if it truly is a camera limitation. I suppose a lot of consumer GX7 users aren't really clamoring to conform 60p60ss to 30p and maybe even wouldn't recognize the issue if they did happen to shoot 60p60ss for slow-mo, so it may have been overlooked all this time.

Doubled 30p is 60p, is it not? I don't think there's any 'leg-pulling.' The GX7 certainly shoots 60p. I shoot it quite often. I uploaded the 60p .mts camera files, before the CineTools conforming process, for reference for anyone that wants to take a closer look. It's just that 60p with a 60ss doesn't smoothly conform for slow-mo; with 60p125ss it does. Go figure. I should have my GX85's this week, so I'll see for myself if the same issue arises.

Good audio inputs and a more robust codec. Otherwise I think they're doing fine and offer impressive value.

Ironically, I think lots of folks ultimately use these hybrid cameras for rather mundane personal purposes. They're the one that seem to be clamoring for a camera that does absolutely everything top in class. And oh, for 1-2K please. One thing I believe I've sussed out from online rants about specs is that a camera enthusiast is not necessarily an accomplished craftsman or an artist. (not that there's anything wrong with that) Maybe they just like playing with new toys and want what they think is the best; not that they'd do anything terribly creative with it, but they got one, dangnabit! God bless 'em though. They're the ones keeping the market alive.

Cool. I'll take a look. Thanks!

All cameras are good these days. If you're still a spec sheet nerd, good for you. The pros I know will use anything that ultimately does the job. Even cheap "plasticy" cameras with lower build quality. Hey, sometimes you don't need a camera to last 5-10 years. Honestly, with the way the market moves, why would you? The things are practically disposable now. 1" sensor? Big deal. Shallow DOF has become wildly overrated and overused. This camera was on my radar as I do a lot of doc work. I have no doubt it would look fine the way I shoot. Ultimately, I decided to go with the GX85 for numerous other reasons, (the fact that I have loads of M43 glass and I need two of 'em) The other main reason being that the GX85 looks like a simple stills camera and doesn't intimidate anyone or call attention to itself by looking like a professional piece of gear. That's a huge "feature" for what I need to do. That need I take very seriously. And in my mind it offers a HUGE advantage over "pro" gear. How would you put that on a spec sheet?? Quite simply, if the XC10 solves an important production problem, no doubt I'd buy it. Certainly others are doing so.

I'm also doing a quick test for reference on this subject. Will upload results. I don't think I'm articulating myself clearly, so it's better to show than tell. Would love to know if anyone on this thread that owns a GX80/85 would be willing to upload a 60p/60ss test clip for me? In the meantime: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ekbyxg4l08se5lc/AACdS6CdgUQ2kxVUD1SbQ7_la?dl=0 Notice how 30p conformed with CinemaTools from the 60p/60ss from the GX7 looks "strobby," as if it's missing frames. On the other hand, the the 60p/60ss from the EM5II is smooth. The only way I've found to make the GX7 60p footage smooth is to bump the shutter speed up to 125. The fact that a shutter speed change on the GX7 camera fixes the motion issue makes me believe it's not a software conforming problem. The raw camera files are included. Also, marvel at my pirouette skills. Anyway, as I say, I'm just wondering if this quirk is still there on the newer GX model.

Sorry for the lack of tact. I was heavy on the rhetoric. Good on you for calling me out on it. To be fair, I've done exactly the same thing in the past to feel out new gear, and made a bit of a mess of it. https://vimeo.com/122338262 password="password" But, I did mention "user error" because I do think it's important that folks understand viewers may be seeing that rather than limitations of the camera. On the other hand, I do agree it's great to shoot wild with something and see what happens. Sometimes, as an online viewer, it's difficult to discern if it's the gear making mistakes or the shooter. Sometimes it's both. Anyway, it's not a knock against anyone's craft and ability, just a reminder to understand that what you see online is not always what you get.

Best results/best practices vs. the results I'm going for might be a little different. That's okay. I do wonder if my particular inquiry is being confused with the whole 180° rule, which is mostly an aesthetic rule more than a "written-in-stone" technical rule. (We all know how a faster shutter was a visual choice on films such as Saving Private Ryan and Gladiator) I seem to be running into a technical limitation, not an aesthetic one. As for my particular issue, tomorrow I can post 60p/60ss examples from the EM5II and the GX7 to showcase the odd "drop frames" difference between the two cameras when 30p conforming in Cinema Tools. Ultimately, my goal would be to shoot 60p so I can slow it down to 30p. The final frame rate is 30fps. So therefore a 60ss should be okay. If on the GX85 it's not do-able, it's just not do-able. No biggy. I'd lose a bit of exposure because of having to use the faster 125 shutter speed, but it's not a deal breaker, just want to know how it handles this process I want to do. BTW, 60p/60ss conforms to 30p just fine with the Xpro2, Canon, and Oly cameras. Take a look here for some XPro stuff shot 60p/60ss conformed to 30p slow-mo: Anyone with LUMIX cameras, I welcome you to confirm this phenomenon. I mean, I may be completely off base here. All I know is that I've only been able to make slow-mo work with the GX7 using a 125ss. Maybe there's some odd setting in LUMIX cams that I'm overlooking, but that's my experience. Hey, would love to be proven wrong. Another note regarding the shutter angle aesthetic: For what it's worth, I actually LIKE shooting quite often with a slower shutter to create MORE motion blur in the image. To my eye it looks less digital, so I use it. For example, here's footage from a doc I shot with a 0° shutter. If you pay attention, you can definitely notice the exaggerated motion blur in the image: https://vimeo.com/140524680 And here's some footage done with the EM5II 60fps/60ss, with some shots conformed to 30p for slow mo. https://vimeo.com/137311259 Oh, another interesting note about 60p shooting: I typically shoot 60p, but ultimately deliver @30p on the final cut. So, I'm not trying to create a 60p edit, I'm just capturing my footage that way for the flexibility of using a shot in slow-mo if I want to or not. Since this is my process, that 60ss vs. 125ss issue matters a little bit.

Maybe I missed something, but EOSHD is writing about and comparing video IQ output, not JPEG stills, which is what that DPreview test is illustrating, correct?

However, my 60p/60ss EM5II footage conforms/slow-mo's to 30p fine. My GX7 stuff does not. Very curious. Regardless of the reasons why, would still like to know if the GX85 requires footage I want to slow-mo to be shot at a 125ss. So, if anyone has the time or inclination, I'd love to see shots of cars whizzing across frame shot @60p. One shot with a 60ss another with a 125ss.

Sure, it's a rule of thumb though. In my particular example, a 60p/60shutter would then be a 180° shutter when conformed to 30p. But I think maybe that's an aside to the issue I'm facing. I'm conforming GX7 60p footage shot at a 60ss to 30p --and finding that I can't do it without it looking like frames are missing. For some reason the "recipe" requires footage to be shot with a 125ss. So, just wondering if the GX85 has the same tendency.

Well, sure, I am confused. But the issue, I think, should be somewhat irrelevant to the shutter speed. Shouldn't it? For example, as you know, the GX7 shoots 60p. I can set the shutter speed to 125 (180°-ish), shoot 60p footage, and then conform the footage to 30p to create slow-mo. This works. However, if I shoot 60p, set the shutter speed to 60, and then conform that footage (using Cinema Tools) to 30p, it does NOT do it cleanly and smoothly. Frames will be absent and the slo-mo will therefore be stutter-y. Not sure why. This is my experience with the GX7. You can try it and confirm. I would add that shooting with a 0° shutter should not affect the amount of frames being captured by the camera. If I select 60fps with a 0° shutter (60ss) that's still 60fps, right? Only if I somehow selected a negative degree value (such as a 30shutter speed) when shooting 60p should it actually "drop" frames, if you know what I mean. I would also say that I can shoot 60p with a 60 shutter speed on my EM5II and it will slo-mo conform to 30p just fine. So, I need a little help. Anyone else notice this quirk? Just me? And, ultimately, does this quirk also show up on the Gx85?