fuzzynormal

Well, probably can't get a subject more "typical end user" than this. So here's a few minutes of the EM5II @24fps, 25 shutter speed, Natural Picture Mode, Contrast -2, Sharpness -2, Saturation -2, Gradation Normal, FullHD. Olympus 12-40mm 2.8 lens. Uploaded the file to Vimeo in the native file format as shot, no grade, no nuthin.' Flaws and all. If you want to download it and watch it 'till your eyes bleed, feel free. Sometimes I prefer motion pictures with edge blur so I shot this with 0° shutter. That's a particular taste, keep it in mind. https://vimeo.com/122338262

​Yeah, the "slow crawl." Still, it would be a worthwhile test just to get a handle on the actual limitations; knowing how far I could acceptably be able to push my luck, or not, as it were.

​I do wonder though, and am tempted to find out, with a 12mm steady handheld on the EM5II, how much would really show?

​Yeah, one can work around it. Although, for a video that is full on handheld like the one we're talking about, might not want to go away from that at the end. But you could have a lot of foreground movement to mask the tripod static-ness. BTW, you may have heard, with this camera you can shoot handheld, keep it steady, and pretty much have it look like a static shot. --Something about this special feature the EM5II has built into it. They call it 5-axis stabilization. Some say it's kind of neat. (as mentioned though, I'd grab that shot with my GM1) Anyway, I agree with you! Where there's a will there is a way. These are concepts that dudes hanging out at DXOmark.com with a magnify glass probably have a hard time comprehending.

I wouldn't. Not with the Oly. At best with the EM5II you could focus on something in the foreground and leave the back slightly soft. If you want to shoot infinity focus cityscapes and moiré bothers you, don't shoot with the EM5II. This camera has moiré. Hardly a secret. Know that while using it and you work around the limitation. For instance, almost all the other shots in that particular video read fine. I just would't have used the moiré cityscape shot in the cut. I suppose that why it's called editing. Honestly, if that was somehow a mission critical shot for a client and I HAD to get that shot, I'd pull out my GM1 for that last bit of coverage. Yes, I know, everyone is bummed that the EM5II is sub par on the moire IQ, and I realize everyone wants perfection and their own ideal in whatever camera(s) they're carrying around. If that ideal falls short, holy moly the internet is going to have something to say. Well, this EM5II might not be a perfect video camera(not even close), but it's a stretch to think that it's not a useful tool in many other regards. Depending on who you are and what you want to do it might be a useful tool in all regards. Oh my, I'm feeling a little dizzy. My stars... I'll be in the parlor. Somebody ring the footman for some Earl Gray and a biscuit.

​I'm not the most talented shooter, but all you have to do with this camera is accept the limitations and exploit the advantages. You'll get good shots. Maybe that's why I kind of like ...some...most (?)... of what I'm getting from the Oly. It's "quieting" my lens while handheld and making simple quick shots look rather elegant. Moreover, if one is a decent visual storyteller a lot of this clutching-of-IQ-pearls is not that important. I know some of us might require a velvet tufted chaise to fall into when we witness the EM5II's moiré, but others will roll with it and make it work. Obviously, here on the internet, it's all great procrastination fodder. For me especially...I think this is my 20th post on the topic. Anyway, I have some pragmatic "real world" footage from yesterday. When I get it edited, I'll put up a link; w/the raw ungraded shots.

Considered the same, but since I've been using the camera on a few things, I warmed up to it. The camera is certainly not refined for video like my Panasonic cameras are. Still, the benefits outweigh the limitations for me. I better not tell other camera manufacturers about my decision though. They might stop production of their high resolution sensors for video --and concentrate so much on 5axis stabilization that thier sensor IQ will falter and the whole economy of enthusiast cameras will crumble to the ground.

Yeah, that dusk shot of San Fran is pretty much what scares people about this camera. Oh well.

​You know what else is weird? On my GX7, I HAVE to shoot 125 shutter in 60p mode in order to get slow-mo footage to conform properly...not so on the EM5II. 60p with a 60 shutter will slow-mo no problem. So, I don't know, maybe there's something to your speculation.

As for me, I spent this afternoon shooting "natural" with all settings at -2. I like it. I also filmed 24p with a 0º shutter. Those settings are probably not to some tastes, but I'm liking what I'm seeing.

​Yeah I know. It's not practical though while filming.

One of the things I'm considering is if I should go with only my vintage lenses on the EM5II. As of this version of the firmware, it's not really practical to change exposure while shooting. As a documentarian that needs to roll long takes, having the ability to adjust without stopping is important. So, looks an iris ring is the only option right now. Firmware fix ASAP? It'll be curious to see how attentive Olympus is regarding updates.

At the end of the day, the video IQ from the EM5II is inferior to similar cameras from companies like Sony and Panasonic. The thing is, it's not a disaster. It's got moiré, that's kind of the worst thing to say about it. And if you want to minimize moire and roll off those higher frequencies in your image, there are very simple ways to do it. Just read what that Brawley guy advises. Easy. Do I think the EM5II should have better IQ in 2015? Yes. Is it going to stop me from being productive with it? No. I'll do just fine and so will thousands of other owners. The Canon T3i has moire too. Didn't stop this guy: http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/8116-short-film-shot-on-canon-t3i/ Ah, perhaps I'm pissing in the wind here. Arguing about IQ seems to be many a camera hobbyist's dedicated pastime. Actually using the camera in creative ways? Maybe not so much.

​Yup. Use what you got well. That's all that matters.

​I think that is possible, but not likely. Moreover, I don't believe any upgrade will be forthcoming in a timely manner. Even then I wouldn't expect it to change the IQ much. Here's to hope though!

​You don't, you know.

​I am. It's fascinating because I can't really relate to it. The level of engagement you're on about Olympus' camera is kind of amazing. I'm not fixated on the topic, but on your earnestness about the topic. Seriously though, don't let me discourage you from pursuing it. Do what you feel you want to do. As for angst, I don't really have any. I'm too old to worry about that sort of stuff anymore. One of the blessings about aging.

Random stuff. It's transcoded, so don't look at it to judge compression, but you can see the moiré, and the cool 5-axis, doin' their thing. Sort of a real world test as I just grabbed shots while traveling.

If the general angst of the internet could be harnessed as a power source we'd energize the planet for eons.

​Yeah, rent it and compare.

​I had the EM5I for awhile while I was on an assignment last year. I can't offer anything specific other than my own anecdotal testament, although I still have the raw footage to look back on. The data rate on the EM5II is much more robust now. So in that regard it's "better." Compression artifacts aren't as noticeable. The EM5I would just fall apart when too much detail was happening on screen. Honestly though, the moiré level seem the same, which sucks. So that's the rub then. Why Oly has a new camera on the market with the same video moiré issues is kind of ridiculous. Us video folks were hoping for something better this go-round and didn't get it. None of that will stop me from using the camera though.

​Nah. Not really. The camera is capable of decent video IQ, but it's just not competitive with other cameras on the market. Keep in mind each and every opinion is anecdotal. One's person's discrimination might not be as acute as another's. If video pixel peeping is your thing, removed from the rhetoric, you can directly check out dpreview.com charts. On a certain aspect the Olympus video is unrivaled: The 5-axis stabilization is great.

Keep casting your line then. It's your prerogative. As an owner of the camera I'll readily admit that the EM5II video IQ ain't great. It's not awful either. I mean, shoot, a hacked GH1 might rival it. It should't take too much longer for that reality to settle in, even with many fanbois. You'll always have brand loyalists making ridiculous claims though, so you'll be able to go at those folks as long as you want. I just don't think here is going to be the best fishing' hole.

​Shallow Depth of Field cures all, eh? I shot some infinity focus stuff yesterday that are much less impressive. Again, so much depends on how ya shoot things.

​I'm happy as well. For what it's worth, we can have inferior video IQ and still create "superior" videos with the cam; with any cam for that matter. Depends on what you do. I'm enjoying it so far and will keep testing it.