Jump to content

Lammy

Members
  • Posts

    67
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Lammy

  1. I still do not think the BBC were disproportionately punishing Clarkson here. As with many high pressure jobs, it's difficult to be fully prepared for any blow out until it's too late. It's happened now so at least there is a precedent and can only work to improve on that. Now that Jeremy Clarkson's contract is not being renewed, he can work to improve himself and relax from the stress until his next contract. He should definitely employ an Assistant and Producer that can take care of his needs in on the next show at least.
  2. Is this really about overwork and mental health issues? Just Clarkson acting like a child, making a mistake and getting violently drunk is what we've been led to believe. If we ask the question of "warning signs and who continued putting him under" - well, the simple answer may just be that Hammond and May and Clarkson really enjoyed the beverages at that pub... ? If the BBC were truly set on money - then surely they would keep Clarkson and play the PR game? If it really is just about money. The BBC are just saving their reputation, and something about no no to assault in the workplace.
  3. If the BBC was a school and Clarkson was a child... I can agree that exclusion isn't good. In that instance, the child should be referred to an specialist that's equipped for the task rather than jump from school to school. But Clarkson is an adult that has to make his own decisions, and if he is not able to, then his next of kin. Yes, Top Gear may have contributed to his stress, but there will be procedures which they'd have to go through and it is unfair to suggest the BBC's at fault for that. Maybe they already did know of warning signs and referred behind closed doors? Clarkson could have played the PR game and actually sought professional help, gone to rehab, and publically apologised and pleaded for his job back or whatever. Instead he's chosen to gloat on twitter and in the news and ranting about how BBC are bastards. This doesn't exactly show a sense of remorse or a mental health problem- more like a lad showing his true colours when his inhibitions are low. Also flicking through Facebook and Twitter there's been an awful lot of Oisin shaming... wow... fans huh...
  4. ​ Possibly contradicting yourself about the sacking much? Does that mean you used to have a 'corporate scum' mindset just last week, or just the people that aren't you? You're assuming the BBC are not in favour of seeking professional help for alcoholism - which doesn't ring true. I honestly thought you was trolling at first... but now unsure... PS: congratulations on meeting Jeremy Clarkson and the Dalai Lama!!!1
  5. I could agree with most of what you said SleepyWill -with the exception of the BBC having an ulterior motive to make public and what is art at the end. It's a little bizarre the implication that the BBC did it to look good while destroy a man and 'appease a vocal minority' no? I already suggested another way it would have gone down, which is a simple quiet bowing out with unofficial rumours of why. There's a subtle difference with not renewing contracts and the BBC have been very tactful about wishing Clarkson the best. And yes, people make mistakes all the time but that goes without saying. And for sure rehab is the best way. The BBC and family and friends ought to be taking care of Clarkson for that. There already is grounds to not be in a heavy stress work situation where it may or may not blow up again and therefore I have to agree with the non renewing contract. I fucking love Robert Downey Jr, Russell Brand, and Mel Gibson and me be sad if teh be banished from da life or burnt out and died at 27 liyk mah otha sistaz and bruddas! Also Russell Brand got fired from the BBC, and he came back on the BBC for some one off documentaries. Maybe there's still hope for Clarkson fans for future Top Gear guest appearances
  6. Wow. And you guys think I'm being defensive? Hahahaha Yes I am outraged about corrupt politicians and horrible policies and the injustices of the world. I am outraged that guys like Ai Wei Wei and Snowden get locked up. I am outraged of drones killing innocent children. Shall we derail this thread further with your assumptions on my own beliefs? I'd rather message you. I am not outraged about the decision to not renew Clarkson's contract. Coz, ya know, it's only Top Gear. This is not an assault on free speech and creativity, this is about assaulting a human being and liking Top Gear. ​I would request you re-read what I said and, with the utmost respect, take a deep breathe and drink water. Because I am not above trolling you back
  7. Well Andrew isn't directly defending assault, that's a little twisted. He is arguing that the BBC should have covered it up from public scrutiny. I argue it can't be covered up and as a public tax tayer that I expect transparency in the system. This is what I want to see: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/investigation-summary.pdf Andrew's article argues about how there should be a different law for people up there, but again, I disagree. There may be exceptional circumstances where lives are on the line (like immunity for war criminals/whistleblowers etc.) but respectfully: popular entertainment and Clarkson isn't up there with that power of leverage. The rest of the article and his subsequent posts about the opinionated few, political correctness, and twisted analogies... are distractions that Andrew himself introduced into the conversation. And we all know how they escalate on da interweb...
  8. ​Unwinding with discussions does make me feel better, thanks for asking.​ You're the one being defensive, bro. All I said was I disagree with you.​ Consensually, yes. I'm sure you understand this nuance. I do like a good sport.​ ​Well now we're speculating. Who's to say the witnesses or crew may not have pushed it further? Yes the BBC are covering their ass here, and it was always lose-lose. ​... calm down, it's only a Motoring show haha. ​Maybe he could have done more to save Jeremy Clarkson's job? Maybe he didn't want to do anything at all? How does one trust any one after being threatened of their job and getting a beat down? His statement seemed professional and respectful enough to the BBC's decision. Hopefully he'll get to keep his job on the new Top Gear or wherever at the BBC. ​Would be better for all involved if he was just fined a lot [if the Producer was 100% on board and crew protected] and I can agree with that if it was near the beginning of his contract. But this happened at the point of his renewal and I guess the BBC must have faith that there's upcoming replacements available for the show. Also LOL: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/03/25/man-loses-job-after-punching-colleague-in-face_n_6940474.html?1427303245
  9. Well Clooney and Russell were both willing to beat down each other no question. That works for them. Clarkson and Piers Morgan were both willing too and I still want to see that charity fight. Drunk Clarkson and the undefended Producer guy? Naaah that looks bad. Yes I'm too lazy to look for the BBC code of ethics and laws on punching people... But seriously, what is this article really getting at? O Russell makes new and different films each time and it's not like him or Clarkson is banned for life. Charlie Sheen would be a better example than O Russell. There's still 15 years worth of Top Gear Clarkson to watch and whatever else he makes in the future!
  10. I'm not being entirely disengenius at all when we're talking about criminal behaviour in the arts. Especially because your article is talking just that. The question is where do we draw the line? If Clarkson's 20 second physical assault became manslaughter? Yes it matters and I haer to agree that people (no matter how creatively talented) are not above the law because fans like their work.
  11. Gonna have to disagree on this one again. O Russell and George Clooney and the Producers and Warner Brothers haven't all worked together since. They obviously had wanted to finish the film (whereas other films some talent simply walk away). And there was a 5 year gap for O Russell. In this parallel you suggest, yeah it would be nice if Top Gear could finish it's last two recordings with Clarkson as a proper send off. Christian Bale, while bordering on verbal assault, he never actually punched the Shane Hurlbert and just ranted at him about "unprofessionalism" and the lights lol. Let's take this further... the director of Midnight Rider makes good films I think. But do you think that film should have been finished? Nah... him and his crew were idiots. There's more to life than just appeasing fans and the money train.
  12. Not when on the BBC's payroll Funny GQ awards. Let's not forget his Osama bin Laden dress up sacking was on MTV. How humuliating to get sacked... from MTV lol.
  13. Mmm yeah. Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross took their suspension from the BBC with more dignity. And those two didn't even hit someone, allegedly. Guido Fawkes and Clarkson supporters driving a Tank around London to protest for Clarkson's re-instatement?! WTF. Fandom is CRAZY* with this one. *yeah, I'm aware that is also politically incorrect to say
  14. What did the BBC ever really have that was risky? Eh up, Downton Abbey is ITV/PBS innit? Hum off the top of my head in recent months I have enjoyed The Casual Vacancy, Doctor Who, Live at the Apollo, The Trip, An Idiots Guide, Weekly Wipe, Graham Norton Show, Louis Theroux documentaries. The BBC Films division has some gems in there too. Yeeeah but I still prefer NetFlix and HBO.
  15. Everyone is now twisting each other's arguments to try and be "right". And yeah we are arguing in vague terms. Clarkson isn't really the best example to use for creative risk... because he's consistently working in the mainstream uncensored. It's actually creatively safe to play on the majority opinions and stereotypes. He's not being persecuted by the people, the Government, or the BBC here. He's just suspended for being horrible to a colleague and the BBC are covering their own ass in fear of cover up accusations or if Oisin presses charges. The rumours of the crew pressuring Clarkson to own up is telling. Jeremy 'The Sun' Clarkson's rivalry with Piers 'Daily Mirror' Morgan is funny. And I would love to have seen the charity fight between them as two consenting combatants. It is far less serious than if he punched Oisin without provocation. Errrrgh and back to the above argument: I don't necessarily disagree with your points Will. I'm sure we both agree there that should be more measures in place to allow and nurture talent from under represented demographics. I am all for positive action (not exactly positive discrimination). And I hate it when the privileged abuse quotas with tokenism and 1 dimensional characters too. Have you seen TV Tropes? http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RaceLift We are in a creative industry and that is supposed to mesh the way we perceive society, art, and money. Seinfield would not be the same show if Will Smith was in it, you're right. Louis CK's work would not be as well informed if he didn't work with Chris Rock all those years either. And where would Top Gear be without Jeremy Clarkson? Would they be worse shows for it? Well that's up to society to decide. Implying EOSHD is racist through your forum posts will result in a ban and subsequent potential for legal action. This is a final warning. Andrew - no where did I state you were racist nor did I imply you are racist. On the contrary, I said you wasn't - and I only said you don't care and your uses of terms are politically incorrect. You have no legal action on me here. I will say if you want to have these kinds of discussions, censorship and banning is not the way. Try not to be so insecure and grow a thicker skin when debating. Or don't bother posting half baked articles at all.
  16. This provocation isn't really constructive, bro! Is it really that hard just to simply say gossip? Not "women's gossip" or "old wives tales" of course, that'd be just as bad and out-dated. To be clear, I am not offended, and I do not think you hate Chinese people. But it just on a fundamental level that you simply don't give a fuck lol. And that's absolutely OK, and within your rights to be portrayed like that.
  17. Also: Jobs aren't actually lost due to this suspension right now. People are still paying the TV license and it gets distributed. Top Gear has already wrapped this series and crews moves onto other projects. So we're only talking about hypothetical future jobs? In fact, we could argue that more jobs would be created if Jeremy Clarkson leaves - because there may still be Top Gear on BBC, AND POSSIBLY Cars with Jeremy Clarkson on Sky
  18. This new article from Andrew is much better than the last article on it. The thing about this is ideally, BBC want to keep Clarkson. Director-General Tony Hall is a fan. I don't think Clarkson is being disproportionately punished at all - getting suspended for the time being for verbal/physical abuse is I can agree with. If he gets taken to rehab, sensitivity training and whatnot, and settles with Oisin - even better for all involved. I will disagree about the public mob shaming thing. It's a two-pronged, yes the people can band together to do real positive change, or real negative change. It really depends on what's percieved to be at stake and the culture. In many other a time and place, Oisin may have had to commit suicide for "failing" his senior. The PR advisor makes a joke about white entitlement- that's just unwise and the wrong platform. It'd be like replacing the BBC News at 6 with Brass Eye - people will misunderstand unless they're given the proper rules and context, which unfortunately they didn't because of the rubbish that is a twitter retweet. Actually a lot of people complained about Brass Eye even though it was shown late night on Channel 4 anyway (but I'm sure less than if it was on prime time). Critics and fans keep each other in line with standards all the time. Jeremy may say something, and James May or the Producer may go "Ah mate, that's a little out of line. Let's cut it". Steve Coogan did it on the show and in an article. Anyway I've said all I got to say on my opinion the creative brand of humour check. I do agree with most of what Russell Brand is saying on the matter, which is pretty much what Clarkson was talking about in his Sun article on the individual old attitude and dinosaur thing. About cars... come on guys - have you looked at the streets and highways and thought how ugly it is? It pollutes my eyes seeing how inconsistent the designs of all cars are! And the smell. And the amount of resources used to create a car and to run a car. While a car is essential for most people in the country, it's really a luxury for everyone else. Better public transport, more walking and cycling is always good for the environment and everyone's health!
  19. Being a comedian can be just as valid as us filmmakers ranting at length in this thread Just try and give his documentary a watch and tell me what you think. For Clarkson, I wonder what he expected when he reported the incident? Carry on as usual? A formal announcement that Jeremy Clarkson is retiring and wishing the best? No one would know the real deal... well, not until a few years later in a biography tell all book. This BBC suspension could be a blessing in disguise for fans of him. It gives him a strong chance to come back and to hear the actual story soon.
  20. If you want to argue about the easily offended and creativity, this video by Stewart Lee and religious protesters on the BBC is worth watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9EUe8jNr6o ​ I'm on team underdog "inept colleague" Oisin. Clarkson's Sun article about being 'an old dinosaur' really reads like an admission of guilt. Let's see what happens these next few days...
  21. No need to censor/ban because no one is abusing Andrew nor accusing him of racism. Only that he is turning a blind eye to the actions of Jeremy Clarkson (on and off character). See guys, this is why we don't discuss politics at the dinner table!
  22. "It's justified because Clarkson makes a lot of money. He was drunk and stressed, who hasn't messed up? BBC owe me my beloved Top Gear! PS: Political correctness fault, just a laugh guys eh lolool! " I like Andrew's camera reviews. Saved me lots of money, I'm grateful thanks. Just gonna disagree with the article and the ethics here though.
  23. ​No, Andrew, I'm not clueless. Of course the way the Argentinians reacted by throwing stones at them and threatening their lives were wrong. I don't believe in disproportionate and violent retaliation so please don't assume otherwise. It's just unwise to do that. And if, like the above example, he went to Brixton and said 'Nigger' for 'a joke' and was killed... I'd be upset too. And I'd wonder if he liked Die Hard 3 too much or was coerced. If you are trying to put Clarkson on the same pedestel as Je Suis Charlie and the Persecution of Scientists from Galileo to Turing... just no. Yeah I bloody love Louis CK and all of his lines are all pretty hilarious in context. The routine of 'Faggot, Cunt, Nigger' watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NAUgCm-3Tc and it's edgy and holds a sense of culpability. Don't get me wrong - I don't think darker Louis CK or Chris Morris' brand of comedy is BBC2 prime time style... (we'll leave that for Charlie Brooker and Armando Iannuchi). Clarkson just messes up every odd year. Be nicer for you if he stayed with the Beeb but if you want him totally uncut and "creatively free" with no restrictions (actually there's an argument that restrictions help creativity...),... he may have to go elsewhere. ​Perfectly said. I would kind of watch that channel late night actually... much more than Babestation. They should let us call in and interact with Clarkson.
  24. ​All of my favourite people are still making some creative, edgy, stuff. Even Jeremy Clarkson is still around despite final warnings way after with Argentina and his twitter posts. I bet he'll come out of this suspension alright especially as I doubt Oisin would press charges for verbal abuse. Katie Hopkins. Josie Cunningham. All have perfect outlet. Leigh Francis is still working fine today. Dapper Laughs got rid because he caved in, and he was just a shittier version of Keith Lemon. This "political correctness" killing spontaneous creative is an imaginary problem, and an easy excuse to cover up their own inadequacies. Just step up yo game and be better. O'Russell and Scott Rudin are the Producers and they are known to be far more outspoken and brash in their methods. They make great films and have tension and all that, sure. Remember when George Clooney had an actual physical altercation with O'Russell and said they'd never work with each other again? Could say the same for Clarkson and Cohen- who knows!
  25. ​But you know I have a mental health disorder and I need to take medication for it? Below the belt mate! Actually I'm just fucking with you. I do this often when it's ad hominem time in an argument. Not quite the same context. There's a difference between a scripted sketch and real life. Here we're discussing the artistic merits and controversies of their work. I never said Saint Coogan can't offend. Try not to change the goal posts to the forum now. Oooh ​I like these discussions. I do not believe Ferrino represents lazy stereotypes of Europeans... he's a bit more than just a tan and that moustache and dance moves require skill! If you wanted to make a point about a fine line, I'd probably use Borat as an example. Then again, it's so ridiculous I don't seriously think Kazah's beat their women and have sex with their goats right? And yes of course you can think it as offensive... so you are correct in your interpretation in that regard. Doesn't make me a hypocrite if I find Clarkson harder to defend. ​Trolling is one of the most addictive and fun things to do on da intawebs. Oh man tiger blood Charlie Sheen is awesome. Clarkson's brand can be charming and watchable. I like how opinionated he gets about cars, the childish glee and competitiveness, and his general grumpiness. It's a shame he crosses the line sometimes (both on and off camera). I had a similar feeling of unease with the Mel Gibson fiasco- just... dang man.
×
×
  • Create New...