Don Kotlos

That is very interesting. Still not perfect but at least it seams to be oNE solution (not for me though cause I hate external recorders). I wonder what processing is being done and if it affects the output quality. Another interesting thing that I found out is that Sony does have an automatic remapping method that runs every month or so. So you can set the date few months ahead to have the remapping and then back. I don't know how it helps in video but in stillsas shown in dpreview it does the job.

It might help but it cannot be "the solution" unless Sony designed the back as a heatsink. This heat problem is not making the camera useless for most non-professionals but at least for me there are two issues that will keep me from getting before extensive user reports: 1. How sensitive is actually the camera in warm weather. For example if I were to take a long hike under the sun, what the time limit would be then? 2. Sensor longevity. Heat can damage the sensor and hot pixels will start popping out. Cinema5D has already a hot pixel in their footage and even in long exposures of still pictures it is a problem as shown in several dpreview threads. Unless Sony provides a remapping feature I expect within a year to become a serious issue for video capture. It might really not be a problem but I am not going to shell out $3200 before I know I can have a camera that will keep working as expected.

Yes that is something that I want to know as well. Both FF and S35 at 24p compared to the A7s, GH4...

Well if you want to record long takes or for prolonged periods then A7s is your only choice.

I agree. This camera deserves more attention. It is a much better package than the DVX200 that was recently released from panasonic with a lousy image quality and a lousy non removable lens. Here is a review from newsshooter: http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/02/24/testing-out-the-jvc-gy-ls300-a-4k-budget-super-35mm-camera-with-a-micro-43-mount/ @austinchimp That footage was terrible but from watching other footage online it has more to do with the person behind the camera/computer than the camera itself.

After the first overheating, see how much time it takes before you can start recording again and how much the second recording lasts before it overheats again. If within a minute you can record another 20min clip it might be alright but I doubt you can do that. One problem with heat is that it is cumulative not a hard limit so you could even do a series of 5min clips close to each other and run into the same problem (but you don't have to test that). Another problem with heat is that it will slowly damage the sensor. Pixel by pixel they will start going out. Now how easy is to map them out with Sony I don't know, but at least with the EM1 it is straight forward. From what I see, Sony created a great camera but it is not targeted for any serious professional work. For that you will have to wait for the A7sII.

Yeah that doesn't sound good. Did you try the FF 4k and see if it helps? I wonder what is the max recording time is when I am shooting at even higher temperatures that are very common where I live. I guess that is a very easy way of separating it from the future A7sII...

You record 10 bit with one camera. Then can you convert that to an 8 bit video very easily.

In the link you provided the difference in colors between 8bit and 10bit video is between "True color (24-bit)" and "Deep color (30-bit)". 8/10bit video means per channel per pixel per frame. The two chromaticity channels (luminance independent) are useful when trying to describe displays since the luminance can be changed very easily and when compressing the video signal.

? 8bits/channel --> 24bits/ image --> 16777216 colors. 10bits/channel --> 30bits/ image --> 1073741824 colors. This is theoretically what can be recorded. Practically,as I said in a previous thread, when recording skin with log 8bit image you will mostly get it within 1-2 stops of the dynamic range which reduces the color space dramatically.

Ebrahim, if you do that then the difference will be minimal indeed. The limitation of the 8bit/channel is when you are using a log curve as I tried to argue here. The reason is that you have to allocate a very small number of colors to each stop of the dynamic range. The reason that canon 8bit is great is because they are using a less aggressive log curve, that maps many more steps on the stops around mid-tones where the skin mostly lies. See here: http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/12/canon-c-log-on-the-c300-compared-to-s-log/ The test is to have a camera with an aggressive log such as the s-log2 of the Sony and a 10 bit output. Record at 10bit and convert the ungraded version to an 8bit version too. Then try to grade both.

Yep I agree. S35 for these low light shots. Here there is a quantification of the RS: https://***URL not allowed***/sony-a7rii-rolling-shutter/. 29ms. Same as NX1.

The test should be grading a RAW still of a face and an 8 bit log frame. If someone has an A7s and willing to spend few minutes getting and posting the raw data here, it would be great so we can all try to match the two. Then after we all agree that is impossible to match the two we can move on to the 10 bit. Sudopera's test is great (thanks!) but a V-log would make the differences even larger especially when shooting fine tonalities such as in skin. So I hope he repeats the test when the V-Log gets released... I am attaching some crops from the video which I don't even have to identify. Differences are obvious.

A7RII (S35) joined A7s and NX1 at the Jello party. From http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/08/03/sony-a7r-ii-part-iv-rolling-shutter-comparisons-with-a7s-and-gh4/

8 bit is mostly a delivery bit depth. It is true that you can replicate most colors. Try to mess with the gamma and push the image around and you start seeing the limitations. So one of the reasons that the C-log from Canon performs much better is because is not pushing the image as much as the S-log. It is using a normal gamma for most of the range and compresses the highlights more. That was a wise decision from Canon because they understand what an 8bit image can do and what it cannot. Here there is more information: http://www.xdcam-user.com/2011/12/canon-c-log-on-the-c300-compared-to-s-log/

Your words...

Did you actually select the "3rd party used" in the link provided? The selling price reduced by about 30%. 30% of $3200 is ~$1000.

I agree. An 8bit/channel image has ~16M colors whereas an 10bit/channel ~ 1000M.

Don't tease us like that. I do enjoy our theoretical discussions...

We were talking about how much you are going to loose if you buy now and sell in 6 months. Look what happened with A7r: http://camelcamelcamel.com/Sony-Full-Frame-Mirrorless-Digital-Camera/product/B00FRDUZUK?context=browse

I remember there were rumors of Samsung and ML collaboration. Any news on that?

No that is not correct. bit depth is not considered "compression". You just throw away the data. Similar to downsampling an image. While is true that compressing more requires more work, compressing a 10bit footage for the same bit rate as an 8bit will require more work (more compression). You would need to increase the bit rate of the 10bit footage before your computational power equates that of the 8bit.

I bet within 6 months and after A7sII gets announced it will be closer to $1000.

This an interview of a Sony manager that I found on SAR today... "Sony will concentrate on full-frame cameras in the future. In the short run, we will target existing full-frame camera users and then attract those who use entry and mid-class models to upgrade their cameras in the long run, raising the popularity of full-frame cameras. To do so, we plan to boost our presence in the professional market such as photo studios and wedding photography. Besides the stagnant growth of the camera market, the entry-class segment of the lens-interchangeable camera market is slowing down drastically.We held a 59 percent share in the mirror-less camera market last year and have been the top seller of mirror-less cameras for the last five years, but we have never topped the gross lens-interchangeable camera market on a yearly basis. Our goal this year is to become the leader in this market for the first time."

This is from their main article: "In this video I used both shooting modes and I dare you to spot the different between them….(1:45 to 1:51 is a good example)."