mat33

Yeah, I also think the endless drive for 'see in the dark' low light performance hasn't helped with reviewers saying 'this is not a low light camera' over and over. With all the excess NR being done we end up with 'plastic' looking images and people adding film grain overlays left and right to make it look more 'filmic'. I personally like some luma noise when shooting higher iso (not so keen on ugly chroma noise), so can camera manufacturers please just let us turn off in camera NR and sharpening completely so we can just do it in post if we need/want it.

What part of the video boom has cooled? Just the pro work or general interest including amateurs?

Considering the Digital Bolex and BMPCC come out in 2013 from very small companies (what digital bolex was really quite an achievement for such a small team) it's somewhat surprising we haven't already. Instead of spending R&D on all the whizz bang features and compressed codecs, couldn't at least one larger company focus on colour science, motion cadence and using prores and raw. Maybe now the C200 is out with raw being the big feature, we'll start to see some movement in this area.

I have simple wishes and I am happy for a smaller sensor camera to not be a low light monster. All I wish for is the GH5s is to combine the best of smaller sensor video with the colour science, motion cadence and global shutter of the digital bolex, the prores and raw of the BMPCC (2.5K or 3k raw would be fine), 13-14 stops DR and the shooting/focusing aids of the gh5.

I suspect all of the crippling in the D850 video is what you get when you rely on Sony for your sensors. I imagine Nikon have some contract that allows them to use Sonys latest sensor tech but they aren't allowed to provide certain features like peaking in 4K for a period of time. If you produced you own sensors or brought them from someone else like BM does then it makes no sense to hold back unless you are protecting your cinema camera range or are engineering limited.

Panasonic putting a m4/3 mount on the eva1, and using adapters for EF and PL lens would have been just crazy for a professional cinema camera. It would have crazy just like if Sony put an E mount on the FS7....

The digital bolex has an iso scheme similar to Arri, BM and Red that shifts the amount of highlight range you have. I do think CCD's (such as F35, Digital Bolex, Leica M9) do have some special magic in their rendering of micro contrast, tone transition, and skin tones. At low iso and with the white balance nailed, the images are just spectacular with no significant mucking around in post. Now you may be able to get a CMOS close if you are suitable skilled but with a lot more tweaking needed.

I use the SLR zoom model which I think is the largest, and for a GH size camera it has worked just fine for me, its never collapsed or bent when using it as additional support against my body. Sure it may not be as sturdy as a specific shoulder or chest rig, but compared to those its very covert and dual purpose when travelling light. Sorry, I've been swamped recently. We could 'borrow' one of Kodaks old film challenge logos:

How about the 'The SUPER 8 BIT Challenge' -back to basics filmmaking with extra kudos for older cameras such as GH1 and GH2 and the less gear that is used, the focus is on working around limitations and maximising creativity -3 to 5 minute short by end of year with as many submissions as you like -any genre allowed -No 4K -All footage to be captured in 1080p and glorious 8bit color I've had good results using a shorter camera strap around my neck and then pushing against this so the strap is taut, can get some subtle camera movement with this that looks fairly fluid and stable. The other thing I use for low-profile filming is a gorilla-pod with the legs pressed against my chest.

The GH2 will have a smaller sweet spot to get the best out of it for sure. When I got my GH3 I found this to be very useful and it is using the GH2:

I had originally envisaged keeping it to older cameras like GH1/2/3 to help resist the urge that you need the updated colour/IBIS/4K etc of a newer camera. But its all meant to be fun so not too worried if the GX85 or others are included or not. If they are, they should be shot in 1080p and with the internal 8bit codec-could well be interesting to compare the GX85 1080p to the older cameras. How about this: The Back to the Future challenge -3 to 5 minute short by end of year with as many submissions as you like -any genre allowed -No 4K -All footage to be captured in 1080p and 8bit -Extra kudos for the older cameras and the less gear that is used

Sounds good, I'm in for the challenge, shall we say a 3 to 5 minute short by the end of the year, and anyone else can join in. I understand keeping the 5D -it does have a beautiful image. Kind of crazy you now have two of the legendary amateur cameras, both improved immeasurably by hacking, one from 2010 and one from 2012 and they still hold their own and even exceed (5D raw) cameras that are being released in 2017.

@mercer I think its great you got a GH2, now you just have to go the next small step and take up the Back to the Future challenge™️ to improve your filming and cure you of GAS. The main challenge is to use the GH2 for a entire year but if that too much to commit to up front then at least 2 months without any thoughts of a new camera purchase -you really don't need that E-M5ii or Canon M6 or D500 I will be your sponsor if do the challenge, and will join you with my GH3. I missed the GH2 era and started filming with a GH3, I agree that some newer camera may have a better image with colours, tonality etc but in reality these are small improvements over the GH2/3 and can be overcome with creativity. Now if your shooting for broadcast or theatre projection then it makes a difference, but for youtube or vimeo I don't think it really makes as much of a difference as we like to think. Some of the colour issues with say the GH3 are mainly due to everyone shooting with all settings at minus 5 and then expecting that slapping a few LUTs on the footage will make it look like an Alexa. If I look at what I've done mainly as a hobbyist (I do the occasional paid wedding as well), I have been far too distracted by gear and the technical side -60p, then 120p now 240p, 4K (which I only use to get good 1080p, so why not just shoot good 1080p), shooting contrast at -5, then shooting log, so many LUTs I've lost count, big rigs, small rigs, I hate all rigs, monitors, evf's, external recorders, gimbals, sliders, ultra contrast filters, black satin filters, speed boosters and on it goes. It some ways its refreshing to go back to basics, which was all there was for hobbyists really at the beginning of the DSLR revolution. I suspect that for a new filmmaker or someone who has been distracted by gear, the best advice is to get a decent camera such as a GH2 or GH3, a few good primes, and decent sticks and shoot the crap out of it for at least a year before contemplating any further gear. Learn to compose, to light, to get good audio, to tell a story, learn to edit and grade. The GH5 looks great but in someways has more options than most of us need, and you can end up spending all of your time testing all of these options rather than being forced to shoot something creative. If the Watchtower of Turkey was filmed on a GH3, with a 12-35mm and 42.5mm lumix lens, and a tripod, and it has 4.3 million views on Vimeo, then do I really need anything more?

As an enthusiast, I have found it very easy to be distracted with the technical side of filmmaking, 4K cameras included, and not spend as much effort on the basics like composition, lighting, story etc as I should. Maybe there should be an EosHD back to the future GH2 challenge™: only a hacked GH2, 17.5, 25, 42.5mm voigtlander (or equivalent) and a tripod for a year, no reading camera reviews, no LUTs allowed, with monthly online weigh-ins with fellow filmmakers for critical feedback. Would be interesting to see what you were producing at the end of the year.

Thanks again @whoisjsd, appreciate your help. I guess I'll need to just test it on the XC10 -I suspect it might work from 35-80mm or so before the rear element is too far away. I also have a GH3 that I can use it on, maybe with the 20mm pancake or I have some Contax lenses. Does anyone know what a reasonable price for the 8/19/1.5x is these days?

Thanks @whoisjsd that all makes sense. It looks like on the XC10 when its at its widest at 24mm the rear element is ~2.5cm from the front element and this distance extends to ~8cm from front-rear when at 240mm -how does that compare to your 45-175mm? People have used the Canon WD-H58W wide angle convertor lens on the XC10 without any issues, and this weighs ~700grams so I thought an anamorphic adapter + clamp would probably be ok? Would the AF work ok with the anamorphot if I had it dialled in roughly using the distance scale?

Hi, I'm thinking about finally jumping into anamorphic shooting. Top of my list at the moment is the Moller 8/19/1.5x which I would like to use on my XC10 (and a GH3). The XC10 has a 1 inch sensor and a fixed 8.9-89mm lens (24-240mm in 35mm). The front element is ~34mm in diameter, and I imagine there will be vignetting with the wider angle but do you think there would be any issues at the longer focal lengths? Also, do anamorphic adapters generally play well with zoom lenses or are they likely to be quite soft compared to primes? I am also unsure how the XC10 autofocus would work with the dual focus -would I just set the focus on the anamorphot using the distance markings and then use the touch AF on the XC10 like usual? The XC10 lens is a f2.8-5.6, and I usually shoot at f5.6 so I'm not looking to use it at a very wide aperture. Thanks for your help.

Doing an interview by yourself is a challenge, trying to engage with the interviewee during the interview and not being hidden behind the camera the whole time, monitoring audio levels and keeping focus all at the same time is difficult for even an experienced operator. I would think about getting a Canon with Dual pixel auto focus for the interview, maybe an 80D or used 70D with the 50mm STM prime and a used XC10 for a 2nd angle and B roll with the 4K and great IS. The DPAF gives you one less thing to have to worry about and you can focus on the interview. There is no point having super crispy 4K only to find that the subject moved and is out of focus.

Makes sense, the 1dx is far to large for me, so downsizing to the GH5 + smaller lenses is definitely more travel friendly and low-key. I really like my XC10 and find it much easier to grade than my now sold GH4. I have even been considering getting a 80D for shallow DOF shots and stills or maybe even (gulp) a M6.

If you have the 1DXMK2 and want a second small/light camera for one handed gimbal/travel etc then I would consider the XC10/15 -should match the 1DX well and if you need low light or shallow DOF just switch to the 1DX.

Watchtower of Turkey looks great but to get this look Leonardo exported the clips as an image sequence and then graded them in photoshop camera raw using VSCO and then exported back to a prores clip. So the Panny's can look very very good but may be very labour intensive compared to a Canon, all depending on your grading skills.

I prefer the rendering of the Olympus zooms to the panny 12-35. The only advantage of the panny is the OIS but with ibis that is probably less important. I haven't used it but I love the look from the old 4/3 14-35 Olympus which is great wide open at f2.

I suspect you are right and I guess its a testament to the role of execs versus DoP's in the industry. If you believe that sensors/cameras are the digital equivalent to film stocks, then this is the equivalent of an exec saying that a film has to be shot on Kodak film stocks and not Fuji because they think it has slightly higher visible resolution (according to the Kodak sales rep).

No disrespect for the GH5 wonder cam, but the fact that the GH5 will likely be a Netflix approved camera and the Alexa isn't makes a bit of a mockery of the whole thing. Maybe the Netflix execs had a good sales pitch from Sony/Red that they thought was a proper comparison which Steve Yedlin alludes to in his ASC interview. I'm not sure I buy the whole future proof argument either, going by current trends any good films will have had at least one remake by the time an Alexa-shot film looks bad.

I guess thats the case -it easy to advertise and promote resolution to consumers compared to better colour/motion/black levels. If it wasn't we would't have the situation where a Pioneer Kuro from 2006 or 2008 has better motion and colour than the majority of TV's sold today.