kidzrevil

@PannySVHS lmao this is funny as hell ! Btw bro did you hear the rumors of the panasonic g9 ?! I knew holding off on a gh5 was a wise move for me

Noooo I cant see the videooo ?

@Bioskop.Inc thank you for understanding we could/should start another thread about this so we don’t annoy the Blade Runner fans. I will say this though @Chrad @fuzzynormal we as filmmakers must be very careful with the films we endorse and the narratives they push. It isn’t “just art” anymore these images play significant roles in the lives of many. BOAN was shown to our president at the time to convince him to maintain and justify the oppressive systems of segregration, Jim Crow and the many other institutions of racism that have claimed the lives of many. It is bigger than just a film, it was a tool of propaganda using the technology available to them at that time. Again we can continue this is another thread if you guys are up to it ?

I get it, im very apprehensive about shooting LOG as well and have mentioned the drawbacks in other threads. I ran this test for those who need to shoot LOG on their productions or who are curious with experimenting with it. Any other time im shooting Cine1 & Cine3 for quick turnover times Definitely a challenge but there are ways to simplify your workflow. I use filmconvert to address that problem. I can even use it to match footage between my a6500 and pana g85.

Thank God...I got worried for a second ?

@maxotics now you’re understanding me. In the original post I mentioned sacrificing the highlight headroom for better noise performance and shadow detail and that is the trade off. That is very much in line with pull processing an image and is exactly what I did here. This is no free lunch and I apologize if I alluded to that but in the original post I mentioned what you do lose and what you gain from my method of exposing the image for post production. edit : also keep in mind that I included her in the test to showcase how skintones are handled when shooting in the overexposure range. She falls under a 1.5-3stop overexposure in these scenes

Im trying to shock you AND get an LOL out of you ! No seriously have you ever heard of rating film slower than the manufacturer intended by overexposing ? The opposite is true for underexposure. You should look up the principles of pushing and pulling film if you aren’t familiar because they are similar in nature especially when recording a logarithmic image. The camera isn’t gaining more light by raising or lowering beyond the native iso, it is sacrificing DR in the upper or lower range to rate the camera at a certain iso. It will always be an 800 iso sensor no matter if you select 100 or 3200 iso on the camera (the camera is only adjusting the gain hence the reason why some people prefer to read the iso as DB to avoid confusion) so I think you may have a misunderstanding of how ISO works in a camera. @maxotics

And that is the point. There is no noise inherent in the final image which = better compression. Also it is almost physically impossible to have noise in the image if the sensor is getting a signal with an exposure 2 to 3 stops over. All the shadow data is assigned to a code value in the upper range of the histogram above 40% ire where noise isn’t present before grading which also results in better compression especially since h.264 destroys details stored in the lower ire levels. Data people often try to raise in post shooting standard rec709. Also with rec709 profiles/linear curves a massive amount of data is distributed to the highlights and its another reason macroblocking and stuff occur in the lower range of the image with far less data assigned to the lower stops.

@maxotics idk man im just not seeing the problems you have experienced with LOG profiles shooting SLOG3. The crushed shadows were a stylistic choice but I will grade the image again. If you look at the clips under a waveform and vectorscope you will see that nothing is blown out. I made sure to expose below the clipping point to prevent any kind of overexposure. I chose to shoot this in LOG over REC709 for multiple reasons. 1) you are shooting at the native iso and also rate the ISO slower by over exposing. 3 stops overexposed at 800 iso is an image equivalent to one shot at 100iso 2) the cameras dynamic range doesn’t chance with any picture profile only the gain does. You will always get a better signal to noise ratio over a rec709 who’s noise floor is hidden in the shadows and will quickly appear when raising them in post. 3) sgamut3.cine works better with color than standard rec709 profiles because of how it handles saturation. After around 40 ire I believe colors don’t get more saturated they just get brighter like film. That color science is not present in any other profile. 4) Im not having the issue with loss of color data or banding because I raise the in camera saturation. SLOG3 white papers suggest to raise in camera saturation to emulate printed film. In post it preserves more color information. The SLOG3 & cineon white papers both state they were made to support 8,10 & 12 bit data so the 8bit argument when shooting log is null and void. Expose up to assign the higher code values of the codec to the image and you are fine. So in my experience there are significant gain in using LOG profiles over REC709 under the right lighting conditions. I will regrade this to look flatter. I have never experienced the banding problem. Do you see it present in my footage ? Im not sure if I missed it but I didn’t see ang banding when I shot or graded this Absolutely right. There is no exposure trick to get more color depth and this is why you raise the in camera saturation. Increasing the saturation holds onto more color information. SGAMUT3 is large enough to support this extra color info without blowing out a color channel. You can desaturate in post

more SLOG3 with custom settings

I've heard a lot about how awful the Sony Log profiles are and how we should stay away from them. Well after testing them extensively I conclude that it's not the profile that's inherently bad its how people are grading them especially when they use the in camera meter to set exposure and not the zebras. LUT's like visioncolor impulz are very aggressive on the blue channel and exaggerate noise. I find Koji advance and Filmconvert to work best with SLOG3. The official Sony LUT also gives you a nice neutral look with desaturated highlights. I found that If I use the expose all the way to the right exposing the brightest object to fall on 94 ire I do not get banding or color noise. 95 ire with slog3 correlates with the 14th stop of the camera so you are technically not losing data if you expose for the brightest stop. What that does is dedicates the rest of the sensor dynamic range to capturing all the shadow detail below the 14th stop (max brightness) which is incredible. When you underexpose and brighten in post is where all the problems start so my rule is shoot 2 to 3 stops over placing the brightest object you want to keep in post at or directly underneath the clipping point. Please keep in mind everytime you go up a stop you rate the ISO lower so 3 stops over on the a6300 and a6500 is 100iso. When you lower your exposure in post the image really pops and all the garbage data gets thrown away

@Cinegain the size/weight and simplicity appeals to me the most. Little things like the monochrome live view mode help me focus on composition & exposure

@Cinegain im really holding off on that camera for now. I want a gh5 so bad its not even funny ! My gut feeling is that the pana g90 or whatever it is that will replace the g80 will be a monster. Im gonna wait a little while longer before I decide on getting the gh5 or not

As a black filmmaker im going to go ahead and say idgaf about Birth Of a Nation for obvious reasons and I will not try to justify its importance or even entertain the conversaion. There are better movies to use as a reference point. Movies that weren’t founded in racist propoganda. Thank you for understanding. @Bioskop.Inc @fuzzynormal @Chrad Anyway im excited to see Blade Runner. Seems like they found ways to improve upon the Original

@mercer I appreciate that bro ! I look at these cameras like yesterdays high end tech now small enough to be used handheld. these Nikkor (nippon kogaku era) lenses are amazing to me. I can use them on both my Sony & Panasonic bodies and they all fit my 52mm filters. With the speedbooster the lenses sharpen up in the center and gradually get softer in the corners. The way the OOF areas render & the random flare gives the image a lot of texture. I never got subject separation like this from my other glass. Not even my zeiss milvus set. @Cinegain I could see the Veydras being for someone who shoots a lot of corporate stuff and needs to play it safe with a picky client. I have one client that I swear must zoom in 200% when I send them work because they pixel peep for any type of distortion or corner softness. For a client like that those veydra primes would create a uniform look they can live with. Me personally I rather lenses with characteristics I can’t replicate in post. The Veydras seem like a lens set that can give me repeatable results

@Cinegain yup ! The g85. I love this little camera

Some screen grabs from a project I shot recently. This is shot with the nikkor auto 55 f1.2. Personally I love the style of rendering when combined with the speedbooster xl. I used a tiffen satin filter to diffuse the highlights

Wow....sounds progressive ??

Lmao SHOCKER !

Yup but don’t worry. Someone will develop a LUT for it to transform those 58 shades of green into “true Canon colors” ?? Absolutely ! Panasonic already had an awesome codec since the GH4. Im still surprised with how far I can push my g80 so I can only imagine how thick those files are !! Don’t sleep on SONY though man XAVC is no slouch neither. These companies are tech giants working in the film & broadcast industry for years. Their compression tech is extremely efficient.

Yup. 10 bit is overrated unless you are doing heavy grading i.e. vfx work. 8bit is more than plenty especially since the way people generally grade is by slapping a curve on the image and adjusting the levels. That is not an extreme grade by a long shot LOL. People are getting caught up in the more is better thing so much they forget 8bit is an imperceptible 16.7 million shades of color and not 64 colors in a crayola crayon box

Yeah @panasonic why’d you create the GH5 ? We just figured out how to use the GH4 !!! LOLLL

I don’t think anyone is that invested to care. So what if they are protecting their high end products ? Who doesn’t and who wouldn’t ? Business is business. I think with the amount of cameras that are out at all these different price points there is something for everyone. The a7riii is certainly not for me. I would waste that horsepower shooting HDR for the 2-4 people in the world with HDR tv’s to support it. That means nothing because someone is going to find some feature available in this body that’s useful to them. Thats way better than only having a handful of cameras to choose from at $10,000 price points like how it was when videography wasn’t an accessible thing. Remember when SLOG was only available in $10k cameras ? All this cutting edge tech in their high end cams just means eventually its going to trickle down into the smaller units like the sony a6xxx series. So I don’t think people are defending Sony as much as we are all just accustomed to their business practices. It’s not like they are forcing us to buy it you know ?? If it flops they’ll have to change that abhorrent business practice BUT people will buy this camera and the world will keep spinning

You are not mistaken at all, but you never know Sony may have found a way around it hence the 4K HDR tag all over the products promotion. Im sure a multi million dollar tech giant like Sony wouldn’t advertise something that doesn’t work with new HDR standard the industry is trying to push. Im sure they want to be at the forefront of that. Hell Kodak white papers says Cineon was designed to support 8bit / 10bit / 12 bit. Same with SLOG3. 10 bit is something that was reserved for heavy post production. 16.7 million colors are imperceptible to the human eye thats why the 8 bit standard was created to begin with.

I personally think Panasonic does this to be “ahead of the curve” and to ensure compatibility with emerging technology. This works for them because the life cycle of their high end products lasts a longgggg time before they upgrade. You can see this with the gh4 tackling 4K under the expectation that it will be a standard. My assumption about Sony is the fact that they develop SO much technology they shorten their life cycle of their products to make use of their emerging tech. Its no mistake that Sony is pushing HDR over 10bit with this camera because the assumption is when you use a 10 bit camera you are going to output to 8bit anyway. HDR compatibility would be a better match for their new 4k HDR TV’s than a 10bit 422 camera would. Sony keeps their entire technology eco-system in mind when developing products. That’s just my two cents