Cliff Totten

So....the sensor is not having any thermal problems in 5.9k. Actually, 5.9k is its normal readout mode. It does this all day long in full frame. The only way to stop its 5.9k read window is to switch to APS-C. So....it reads 5.9k with no heat problems or time limits. It image processes that 5.9k with no heat problems and scales it down to 4k for recording with no thermal problems or limits. It sends 5.9k raw to the HDMI unlimited with no heat problems. It continues all its 5.9k sensor readout, 5.9k processing and 5.9k raw output unlimited with no heat problems....even after the 5.9k file finishes it recording cap. See?

No,...I'm saying the S1 does a 5.9k sensor readout, every day, all day long. 5.9k full width read window is it's normal every day scan. So, the "sensor" does 5.9k with no thermal problems. It always has from day one, even when saving 4k files, the sensor reads at 5.9k. The file saved is oversampled 4k from a 5.9k readout. The new firmware takes that same 5.9k sensor readout and instead of saving that file to 4k, it will now saves in to a 5.9k file and places a 15 min cap on it. The 5.9k readout, 5.9k image processing and 5.9k raw out to HDMI continues with no time limit or thermal issues after the 5.9k internal file ends. Im 99.99% certain this 15min limit is only a firmware cripple to protect the S1H

Clipping occurs when sensor photosites are saturated and can't collect any more photons. There is no "raw" on planet Earth that can "recover highlights" from a saturated photosite. The term "highlight recovery" that everybody throws around is not a real thing. You either clipped and saturated photosites on your sensor or you didnt. You either crossed that threshold or didnt. Neither Log video OR raw sensor data can save you from clipped sampling. Pure white....is always pure white. So is pure black. This goes for both log video and raw.

So here's the deal.... The S1 can do: 1.) Unlimited 5.9k sensor readout all day long 24/7 with no thermal issues. 2.) Unlimited 5.9 image processing with no thermal issues 3.) Unlimited 5.9k raw over HDMI with no thermal issues....even continuing after the recorded file write 15min. time limit. 4.) The GH5 with it's same encoder chip can record unlimited open gate 19mp 6k video....with no thermal issues in a much smaller body. Does anybody else believe the S1 was capped at 5.9k internal recording to protect the S1H?

I love the S-III....except for ONE thing. Sony spread the dual stage gain values WAY too far part. In SLog-2/3 have the "low" db set at 640 ISO and the "high" 0db at 12,800 ISO! This is crazy. That second stage preamp needs to be moved down to 4,000 ISO where the S1H and FX9 have it set. The S-III's ISO's on the first stage look TERRIBLE from 3200-12,800 because of this. I know why Sony dud this. The wanted the S-III to be the "low light king" for marketing reasons. So,...they sacrificed the lower gain amounts to collect higher performance on the extreme low light conditions. This was a $hitty trade off in my opinion. At least the FX9 and S1H have it right! Sony A7S-III - "Low light joker but no light King"

Wonderful!...I'm betting Cannot programmers just read this article and went; "Oh shit....we gotta disable this hack on the next firmware" Cannot is not going to just sit by and watch it customers try to circumvent all their hard crippling work. Cannot marketing people want this stuff there for a reason. Enjoy the hacks while they last!

I'm really curious to see what the market tolerance is today for contrast hunting AF. Years ago, Lumix had 10bit recording to high bit rate codecs. This gave them leverage over their competition and compelled buyers to tolerate contrast hunting AF. We never wanted "Depth From Defocus"...but we bought it anyway to get acces to the other features. Today?...that leverage has eroded. 10bit color and high bitrate codecs are now becoming standard issue on all the competition. Lumix's most valuable features are no longer exclusive and we no longer need to just "live with" contrast hunting AF like it used to be. The market has changed drastically in 2020 and 2021. People are demanding crazy good AF much more today than they did 3 years ago.

Andrew - You know Cannot was hacked by a data ransom organization. If Cannot doesn't pay them...could you imagine these hackers releasing all the internal confidential emails from R5 developers and managers and Cine team and marketing execs? Could we see all the dirty back room plotting and planning on how they were going to sham their customers? Woah...that would be massively embarrassing for Cannot.

At this point, now that we know what Cannot has done with the R5, why "exactly" are we all pissed off? 1.) Are we pissed because Cannot crippled the R5 to such ridiculas levels? Are we pissed because we think that protecting EOS Cine camcorders is a stupid idea? Are we pissed that Cannot just didnt let the R5 do everything it was truly capable of? 2.) Are we pissed that Cannot LIED to its customers by trying to make us believe that the cripples were not avoidable because of heat limitations? In other words....If Cannot just came out and said from day one; "Yes,...we have placed software blocks that limit the R5's ability to negatively impact our pro camcorder sales"....would that have made the cripples OK? If Cannot was just blunt and honest about the R5 cannibalizing camcorder sales...would we all have understood and given Cannot a cripple pass?

Look....Cannot has worked hard to cripple the R5 and limit it's ability to be used as a replacement for their Pro Cine models. I'll say it again, Cine EOS managers were in the R5 technical planning and devopment meetings from the beginning. Nobody wants the R5 to take $1 away from the Cine EOS model sales. Cannot is not afraid of bad press on the R5. What DOES terrify them are customers circumventing the R5 marketing control measures and making it go beyond Cannot's intentions. It's vital for the R5 to live in the carefully calculated market "box" that Cannot made it for. We can all bet our lives that Cannot will work as hard they can to thwart any user hacks that crop up. They will likely reduce some of their original cripples in future firmware but never enough to match what "WE" want the R5 to actually be. What Cannot want's the R5 to be and what "we" want the R5 to be.....are two RADICALLY different ideas.....

Is modifying a product that belongs to you illeagle? How many things that we buy and then make changes to? People modify computers and electronic equipment every day. Could you imagine if Dell tried to sue you for modifying your laptop hardware? Could you imagine Ford suing you for modifying your engine...etc....etc. If you own it, it no longer belongs to the campany that made it. Its your thing and you can screw it up all you want.

Andrew....do you know the "Magic Lantern" guys? Do you know how to contact or reach out to them? I would literally bet my life that they are very interested in this R5 mess. If you want to upset Cannot and REALLY ring their bell, get some dialog going with ML and REALLY start a fire here.... If Cannot has not yet encrypted their firmware, could you imagine ML reversing all these cripples in firmware? Maybe It could be just as easy as taking timer values in lines of code and replacing them with high values like "99999" or something of that sort. Cannot doesnt fear bad R5 press....but they DO absolutely fear somebody circumventing their carefully chosen marketing strategies and tactics!

If this R5 firmware is not encrypted carefully and this thing gets "cracked" and becomes virtually limitless? If everything that Cannot has done, every measure they have made to cripple it....is reversed? This will terrify Cannot management more than any negative press that the R5 can ever have. If the cap comes off the bottle and the genie escapes? The R5 will run wild in places that Cannot desperately does NOT want it to ever be used. Cannot has a very "specific" intention for the R5 and they have worked soooo hard to keep it inside that box. It absolutely must stay there. They might make the box a bit larger soon but not by much. It would not supprise me if Cannot is holding R5 shipments to make sure its firmware can't be hacked before too many units get out. I bet "Magic Lantern" are licking their chops today.

Yes,...if the S1H did have phase detect AF, it WOULD be flawless. Too dangerous and that us why it won't ever have PDAF. The camera industry has a "pizza pie" of customers. They work together to divide the customer revenue so that each company has a "group" to live off of. Panasonic has its crowd, Sony has its people, Cannot and Fuji and Oly each have their own customers...for carefully calculated reasons. The Japaneese camera industry is an important one for the country of Japan. Its almost a "national pride" issue. They cherish it and the Japanese companies want each company to succeed or at least survive as a matter of pride and respect for each other. Each company will spar with each other, yes!...but always see that each refuses to deliver a true "knockout" blow to the other. Ot just won't ever happen. This is why every camera will be crippled in some way to save the Japaneese "brotherhood" from being destroyed. Everybody is given a bowling lane to operate and survive in. The camera crippling we have all seen in the past 20+ years is no accident. Its mostly designed to preserve the health of the Japaneese camera industry as a whole. Believe it or not....but Sony doesn't want Cannot to die. Cannot doesnt want Lumix to die...etc. They are each valuable to the country they all love.

If I were Cannot, I'd pray to God that I have security measures in place in the R5 to block it from being firmware hacked by the Magic Lantern guys. If somebody can hack and unlock the R5 software?...customers would be left with one HELL of a nuclear bomb 8k monster beast camera that would TERRIFY Cannot's marketing execs and cine EOS managers. Yeah....you better pray the R5 does not get hacked.

No...this is true gossip. I know somebody who is a sensor engineer and his company has fab'd with Sony before. So he knows them fairly well as an engineering customer. However,...this is only industry insider "chatter" and nothing that Panasonic or Sony has ever publically stated is a problem between them. You can bet your life that Sony and Panasonic will never discuss this publically or out in the open. Treat this as a rumor only.....

I'm just tired of everybody saying "Panasonic is stupid" "Panasonic is arrogant" "Panasonic doesnt understand how PDAF works and why is great" "Panasonic thinks DfD is better than PDAF" Ugg....Panasonuc being stuck without PDAF has NOTHING to do with that crap. People also make this RIDUCULAS statement" "Sony imaging and Sony Semiconductor are two SEPERATE companies.....and Semiconductor has ZERO concerns with the heath or competition if imaging' I mean, this one guy told me "Semiconductor just wants to sell sensors, they don't care at all if Imaging dies or not" Who believes that???

The GH5 and GH5-S are Sony IMX272 and IMX299 sensors. I don't know if these Sony sensors have PDAF photosites or not. "If" they do have PDAF photosites like their MFT cousins on the Olympus side, then Panasonic does not have the liscense from Sony to use them. I don't know. Anyway...on the full frame war. Who else besides Sony makes full frame PDAF sensors with EXMOR patents and on-board A/D converters? Where else is Panasonic going to go if they can't negotiate with Sony? Cmosis? Aptina? Sure they could buy other sensors without Sony architecture patents......and sit back and watch their camera get smashed on test sites like this or YouTube when compared to a Sony camera. They HAVE to buy from Sony to compete with Sony. My source (this means "rumor") tells me that politics between Sony and Panasonic are very "complicated". I dont know. I am not in those Panasonic/ Sony sensor licensing/purchasing meetings and very few people in Japan actually are. Bottom line?....guys don't blame Panasonic so hard for not having PDAF sensor liscensing. Its not their fault in the way many people are guessing. Panasonic engineers (at their level) are doing the very best they can with the sensors they have. Again...they FULLY understand the contrast hunting AF hole that they are in.

Ok...lets clear up some common misunderstandings.... Panasonic does NOT hate phase detect AF Panasonic has PDAF cameras in their labs and PERFECTLY understands how much better they perform over contrast hunting AF Panasonic is absolutely, completely, 100%...PAINFULLY...aware that they are at the bottom of the industry AF performance list....and will stay there with contrast hunting AF. Panasonic is again....PAINFULLY...aware that being the only major company without PDAF is killing their sales numbers. They FULLY understand this at every level. Panasonic is not "stupid" or "arrogant" or "stubborn" or "blind" as many of declared. Panasonic wishes they were not in the situation that they are in today with AF. They don't WANT to be in this situation!! However,...Panasonic engineers are given non-PDAF sensors and YES!!...this SUCKS! Their task is to make the best contrast AF they can with the sensors they have. These guys are trying as hard as they can! They are given lemons and asked to make lemonade. Politics between Sony and Panasonic are very complicated. Today, Panasonic is stuck where they are. Hopefully things will change in the future but for now, this is the reality they MUST live with. Everybody just blindly blames Panasonic for being "stubburn" with holding on to contrast AF.....I really wish it was that simple of a problem that so many think it is. Guys....Its just not that simple as we make it out to be.

Eggg-zactly.... If it has contrast hunting AF then it's dead on arrival. Sure they will sell some but the market is demanding incredible AF these days. Panasonic is the last big company to not have phase detect AF. They are tbe last man standing and they cannot survive on the "manual AF" crowd in the future. Panasonic better figure out how to negotiate phase detect AF sensor liscensing from Sony for the GH6. If they cant....they will die.

If the R5 hardware is [somewhat] sufficient in terms of its heat stability and the majority of its problem is software related...why not let the ship? All Cannot needs to do is rewrite the firmware crippling values and release that to the public afterwards??

I refuse to believe Connot would be THIS underhanded. I'm sure it really IS a true heat problem and NOT a software programmed timer. What programmer would do this in the office, go home at the end of the day and still be able to sleep at night? I think the problem is probably with your fridge. There is prolly something wrong with it. Can you test with a freezer instead?

I swear....I HOPE Cannot engineers had the DECENCY to call Tilta up and say: "Guys....before you lose a ton of money on manufacturing, we highly recommend that you NOT waste your time and money on this as we made sure that trying to cool the R5 won't work...." Then again, I can see Cannot engineers saying this too; "HAHA....look at these Tilta idiots TRYING to cool our R5. They have no CLUE they are just chasing a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow" Wow......just.....wow.

Haha....I just thought of something.... This new Tilta R5 cage with fan cooler? This information makes it 100% USELESS! I really hope these Tilta guys have not gone into manufacturing yet!!

90% of us here are NOT shocked about this R5 stuff. We have been watching the industry do this same sort of crap for 20+ years. Camera crippling is a necessity in the camera industry. Its a vital strategy to separate, split and divide camera models into various customer teirs. Without crippling, every company's fleet gets overlapped and consumer cannibalism goes wild. So yeah....if anybody is in the 10% "shocked" catagory,...then shame on you. I have to laugh as either you are a complete industry "noobie" or you literally just have NOT been paying attention whatsoever....not even a little bit! I posted at the beginning of the year that the R5 would have extremely limited recording restrictions due to a Cannot source that tipped me off to this. This was a calculated marketing decision, NOT a mistake in any way. Sadly.....camera crippling has served companies very well for 20+ years. It will still be here long after all of us are gone.