Cliff Totten

By the way. I have a contact that works for Canon and he told me the R5 would have recording time restrictions over two months ago. If you look back at my posts here, I warned everybody here over and over again about it. Non if this was news to me. Although, I had hoped he was wrong in any kind of way.

The past 3 months of R5 waiting and wondering and hoping has turned into a virtual train wreck for many of us. This is bad for any kind of moderate long form event shooting. Downright impossible. The Canon Cripple Hammer has struck again! Again...I'm sure that the Canon video camera division managers and sales people are sleeping perfectly fine tonight. CT

look....Canon never wanted the R5 to be used in place of camcorder jobs. They have camcorder models for this purpose. Does anybody think that Canon or Sony is going to screw their video camera divisions? Many people actually believe that Canon Cine managers and Sony XDCAM managers don't care about R5 or A7S-III planning meetings. Believe me....XDCAM managers are right there at the meeting table with the Alpha managers of A7S-III design and marketing meetings!! BELIEVE IT!!

Yup,...that heat has to go somewhere. Without a fan, how else were they supposed to move it out of the body? Some people claimed that Canon developed some kind of new magic metal heat pipe tied to an invisible heat system. To most of us here, this was absolutely expected. Lumix did the right thing buy using a REAL active cooling system for unlimited 6k recording. Something else. Canon and Sony can allow their sensors to run hot. But, hot sensors are NOISY sensors. More heat causes more noise. Cool sensors are cleaner sensors. This is why most large sensor camcorders have fans. To keep their hot sensors running cooler and cleaner. Major screw up Canon. Let's see how that R6 runs.

The catch? Time limits. Canon does not want you to use the R5 to record live music, or stage plays or long interviews. They have other cameras they want you to buy for those things.. I'm told by a Canon rep I know that it will have crippled recording limits. Although my info is now about 2 months old. At that time, Canon mamagement had not decided what the final time restriction numbers would be. I have not talked to him since then, so will find out soon what numbers they chose. So yeah,...if your kid is singing in a stage play, make sure you start and stop it on some other kid before yours starts to sing. If you are recording a local band, make sure to stop/start in between songs so the music doesn't cut out in the middle of a song. A wedding ceremony?....ugg. There is no good place to stop/start in those events.

Has anybody found out what the recording time limit restrictions are yet? Yes, it will have time restrictions. I have a Canon rep that confirmed to me that they will restrict video recording limits. Although, at the time he told me, he said that management was still debating what the final limits times would be. So, yeah, if you want to record your local live band or your kids school play or drama theater event, get ready for forced stops and restarts in video. Let's hope it shuts off at 29 minutes and not shorter.

With all its cripples....this camera is truly a bizare marketing decision. It's actually scary to think that Panasonic management asked engineers to design it and then green lit it to go into manufacturing production. Huh?...who was in charge of this project at Panasonic? Who actually believed it would sell enough to justify its R&D cost? We can forgive weak DfD auto focus because the GH5 and GH5S gives us so much more besides AF. But this little thing gives us weak DfD AF with no other great (or even good) features to back that up and compensate us for it. Its just a little hunk of junk that is badly crippled to protect higher Lumix cameras. With all the camera choices today....i can't see anybody saying "Oh WOW....THAT!!!...is the camera I really want" Panasonic management is starting to scare me. What is going on up there?

Hmmm....the Lumix S1H will give full pixel readout and full sensor width in raw. Same sensor?

This is a 4k, APS-C windowed raw readout? Full width sensor readout would generate 5.9k raw sensor data.

There is a Spanish saying that goes something like: "It's easy to talk $hit and not fear the Devil...until the day you see him standing at your front door" We said and heard a lot of talk for the last 2 years about camera companies not surviving the changing market. Not everybody actually believed it. Today is a shock because the Devil is now standing at our front door. Its our first actual, "Oh $hit ...the Devil is real" moment. More to come.....

I have been told that organic sensors are great...."if"....you can find a way to keep them cool. Supposedly, they require large amounts of power to drive them and all that power generates high heat. Will we ever see organic sensors in a GH5 or S1H sized body using existing sized batteries?. Prolly not for a long time from now.

Its not just the processor that needs cooling. Reading out a large sensor in 8k at 30+fps will heat that sensor up...big time. Its going to suck amps galore and get really hot. Sony often clocks their sensor readouts down to keep them cooler in small passive Alpha bodies. A fast clocked 15 millisecond readout in 8k 30p....in a passive cooled body?...no damn way!!! That sensor will be clocked at 35-45 milliseconds and will jello-o like crazy. Even THEN, it's still going to get hot. I'm betting on 8k clips no longer than 5 min and a required cool down in between clips. 4k?....be ready for pixel binning/line skipping and a forced 29 minute recording limit. You guys wait and see....the "Canon Cripple Hammer" is alive and well. They have to also make the Cine EOS managers happy too. And please.....nobody tell me; "Canon Cine EOS managers have ZERO concern for anything that an R5 has to offer" or "The R5 doesn't compete with the C200 or C300 so Cine EOS managers don't even pay attention to the R5 because they are two different markets" Oh...they care and the have a lot to say about how the R5 should be "properly" crippled.

We know as a fact the Nikon Z6 and Sony A7-III use the IMX410, a really nice sensor. I good source of mine tells me the Sony A9 and new FX9 use the SUPREB IMX310 which is an upgrade over the 410. Im also told that the Lumix S1H and S1 use an "extremely close relative" to this IMX310 sensor. Again, this 310 is Sony's absolute top of the line model sensor today and with a Sony front-end that good, it explains why the S1H looks so fantastic. It's a shame that Sony crippled the FX9 and didn't use all of the IMX310 readout modes....and Lumix DID take advantage of those 6k/5.9k options! It's hilarious that Panasonic would buy Sony sensors and turn right around and beat XDCAM over their heads with Sony's own chips!!

We have been seeing these R5 prototypes out there for a couple of months now. Maybe with the final R5 production model, Canon will sneak in a proper cooling fan? Without that, I don't see how Canon can do this 8k/4K properly. The Canon C200, C300, C500, C700, all REDs, All BlackMagics, Sony FS5, FS7, F5, F55, FX9, All Varicams, EVA-1...and S1H have cooling fans to control sensor and processing heat in 4k/6k/8k. If the R5 really can do all that they say it can with no line skipping and/or pixel binning.. .in a passive cooled body? That would make the R5...THE..greatest electronics engineering marvel that man-kind has ever seen! Absolutely no question at all! It will literally make all the fan-cooled Canon Cine models look foolish. (And any other fan cooled 4k/6k/8k camera too) Hmmm...or maybe it's just me that is foolish for expecting all this incredible R5 8k/4k 10bit and raw capability to be fan cooled in 2020. I'm telling you guys....the devil will be in the details, asterisks and fine print that Canon will only reveal the day this camera actually hits the streets and all NDA's are expired.

Funny question. Too early to say but its fun to guess.....what are the odds of this thing getting Netflix approval like the S1H did?

Canon is pushing "full sensor with" and "no cropping" but they are being very careful to not say "HOW" they are doing this. I'm expecting gobbs of line skipping and pixel binning in 4k. The fact that this camera has no cooling fan is also HIGHLY suspicious. It wouldn't surprise me if the 8k limit was no more than 30 seconds long per clip. Even line skipped 4k will not be longer 30 min. Many people expect this to be the 8k version of the S1H. But, the S1H is fan cooled, has 6k-4k-1080 full pixel readout, no recording limits and no overheating problems and is designed to be as 100% reliable and is built like a true camcorder. The R5 will be nothing like this because its not designed to be and it can't be in this form factor.

Canon is not talking abut the recording time limits that are going to be imposed. I have a Canon insider that tells me that time limit cripples ARE in this equation. Although he knows they exist, he does not know what those times are and he told me they were still being debated internally. So, it's not set in stone yet. (This info to me is about 6 weeks old now) Anyway,..you can safely bet your life that there will be video time recording limit cripples that WILL frustrate many people. I'm curious how they are reading out that 8k and making 4k out of it. Are they going to line skip or do a crude pixel binning process to save image processing work load? I SERIOUSLY doubt Canon will be able to do an on-sensor, "Sony-style" full pixel readout at the A/D converters. I smell some 4k line skipping from the full sensor width....hmmmm.

But how is Canon getting around RED's internal raw recording patent? We know how BlackMagic beat RED. They took BRAW and deBayered the RGGB channels before they save it to file. Arguably, it's not true "raw" any more because it flattened. This stops RED's lawyers dead in their tracks. But Canon? Is their raw light deBayered too? Is this why they call it "Raw-Lite"? We know that ProResRAW is true "raw" and it doesn't get significantly screwed with in the CODEC itself.

Rolling shutter is a side effect of the sensor read out being clocked down. Companies slow the read cycles down to controll heat because these chips are installed into cameras with poor heat management ability. Sensor "x" in a tiny body will be clocked down very slow to keep it cool and that sensor will produce a nasty rolling shutter skew. However, that same exact sensor placed in a larger actively cooled body can support faster readout cycles and can greatly reduce rolling shutter artifacts. Remember, the data "amount" a read cycle produces is the same weather it's scanned at 30 milliseconds as it is at 15 milliseconds. So ram stacking doesnt exactly effect rolling shutter readout clocks. Ram buffering DOES effect the data "amount" that can be collected in that read cycle. (4k, vs 6k vs 8k worth of photosite voltage collection values per second) In other words, a sensor with plenty of stacked RAM could easily still have a rolling shutter problem if it's readout needs to be clocked down to keep it cool. So an 8k readout with a zillion megs of onboard RAM will still have crappy rolling shutter if it's read clock is 30 milliseconds. Heat control is why we have rolling shutter today....especially on Sony cameras because Sony is forced to clock their sensors down because of the size of Alpha bodies they are installed in.

Yeah,....with this "8k" R5, I would almost best my very life that it wont be anywhere close to the doomsday dream camera that we all want it to be. I fully expect that Cannon will cripple it in the grossest and most heart-stabbing ways. By the time we read all the Cannon asterisks and fine print clarifications, 90% of the air will fly out of our balloons. Cannon's DNA will just never allow them actually build the camera we all want. Oh well....it was nice to dream for a couple of months...

I really don't know about this. Cannon's massive, INTENSE and irresistible desire to cripple the HELL out of their cameras....is going to make them shoot themselves in the foot again. I just know it. Cannon pays more attention to their feature limiting tricks than their focus on feature enabling work. Cannon is just like what Yoda told Luke: "Always with you, what CANNOT be done..." Cannon cares more about what they cant or shouldnt do then what they can or should do.

Was looking to see what Sony APS-C sensor does 6k, 60p and I didn't see any. Who's sensor is this?

Panasonic is not stubborn about contrast AF. Many people believe that Panasonic engineers are "stupid" or "unaware" or "uneducated" about how hybrid AF works and how good it is. Hybrid PDAF uses TWO data sources to make focus decisions with, target contrast and waveform phase correlation. Panasonic uses contrast only for its decision making. Many think that Panasonic are "holding on" to the idea that phase correlation is not necessary. Yes, it gives you exact focus direction between a target moving in the forground and background....but that Panasonic is not impressed with this information like the rest of the camera world is....because Panasonic is "ignorant" about the entire process. Panasonic believes that ONE inaccurate data source (contrast) s better than TWO data sources. (With the second being highly accurate and directional phase corelation) Don't believe this. Panasonic is not as stupid as you might think they are! Panasonic knows VERY well that their lack of modern PDAF Sony sensors is the #1 most damaging sales problem that Lumix has! They KNOW this 100%. Believe me, Sony PDAF sensors on future Panasonic cameras would upset Sony Alpha managers TREMENDIOUSLY! Sony sensor sales are NOT hurt by Panasonic ANYWAY! Panasonic can't liscense PDAF sensors...but STILL liscense the non-PDAF versions anyway!...no Sony money lost!. BTW...Sony will not liscence PDAF sensors to BlackMagic either. They are forced to use the IMX294, the sister chip to the GH5-S iMX299. (No PDAF onboard...no, Sony is NOT giving PDAF to BlackMagic either) Again....Sony will NOT help Panasonic fix their thousands of AF complaints that Panasonic gets. Instead....Sony Alpha RELIES and counts on Panasonic AF complaints. Jeremy Young of Atomos said it best. "If you want to get Canon to do something, get Nikon to do it first. If you want Sony to do something, get Panasonic to do it first" Sony Alpha does not fear Nikon, Olympus or Fuji. They DO fear Panasonic. Panasonic competes against Sony on more products than cameras alone and that rivalry is old and very strong. It's not even just a tribal rivalry issue alone. Sony Alpha NEEDs at least one of its major rivals to have focus problems. Especially when it does NOT hurt Sony SemiConductor's bottom line in sensor sales. It's a win for Sony Alpha and a win for Sony SemiConductor. Panasonic is still forced to liscence Sony non-PDAF chips anyway. Panasonic is not "stuborn" with contrast-only AF....they just have their hands tied today and are doing the only thing they actually can with the sensors they can actually liscence. Anybody that thinks that Sony is TRYING to sell PDAF sensors to Panasonic but Panny REFUSES to buy them?...is absolutely wrong. Anybody that thinks that Sony is NOT overjoyed that Panasonic is stuck in contrast AF Hell?....is absolutely wrong.

It's important to know this is just hearsay and not a verified fact. My source is a sensor engineer that does not work for Sony or Panasonic but his company has done busines with and fab'd with Sony. This is just something he told me at NAB and I know him well enough to believe him.

Panasonic is NOT being "stubborn" with PDAF. In order to have phase detect AF, you need to buy a sensor that has dual PDAF photosites. Sony sells them to Fuji, Olympus and Nikon. I'm told by somebody I know in the sensor industry that Sony REFUSES to liscense PDAF sensors to Panasonic "specifically"....by request from Alpha. Panasonic has no choice but to go the contrast AF road. This is a harsh marketing tactic by Sony and everytime Sony reads complaints about Panny AF....Sony Alpha is VERY ...VERY.....V E R Y....happy. Panasonic is going to have to fix their AF complaints...on their own. Sony is NOT going to help Panny fix it! Sony can live with Nikon and Olympus as competitor's but they will NOT help their long time rival, Panasonic. Believe me,....Panasonic is TIRED of hearing their AF complaints. They KNOW....believe me,...the know! They are doing the best they can with what they have.