DBounce

You really can get them to look near enough to identical in post. That said, after spending more time with the pair I can confidently report that the Nikon trumps the Canon in image quality. AF is near enough as makes no difference... if you do not shoot N-Log. The build is better on the Nikon. Reliability is better... zero issues to date, while the Canon did experience three errors... granted easily recovered from. Where the Canon excels is in usability. It's very easy to shoot with. The flip screen is wonderful. The controls are also easy to manipulate from both in front and from behind the camera. Shooting to SD cards is great if you have tons of them laying around like I do. My overall impression is that when Nikon released the Z6 they aimed to knock one out of the park. It's a camera they intend to be in the lineup for some time. They are committed to improving it and adding features over time. Whereas, I get the sense that Canon released the EOS R kicking and screaming. It feels like a camera that is intended to have a very short lifespan; destined to be replaced by another model soon.

And what happens when you want to take a picture at more than 8MP? Hmmm? Or maybe it's raining outside? You are comparing a dedicated video camera to a true hybrid. Before franken-rigging up a P4K, I would just reach for my Canon C200 and be done with it. The only appeal imo of the P4k would be size... which is defeated once you start rigging it. Like I said, it was interesting before Nikon decided they would stop protecting Canon's and Sony's and Panasonics cinema lines, but those days are over. BM had better come up with one hell of a plan B.

I understand perfectly.... READ THE SIGN BEHIND THE NIKON REP in the video I posted above... I believe this is the new way Nikon intends to build value for their cameras. Add features via firmware updates as opposed to releasing new bodies with requested features and pissing off those that have the older model.

Notice that the Nikon rep also states @ 1:27, that firmware support for CF Express is going to boost the video quality for video shooter. This would seem to lend credibility to what Jeremy of Atomos said during his interview with Newsshooter, when he said the Z6 and Z7 can record raw internally.

Until they add internal raw recording... which will likely happen once they release the firmware that supports CF Express. Atomos said the camera is capable of internal raw... the Ninja V is just a quicker way to deliver it development wise. Shooting with an unrigged P4k sounds like an exercise in frustration. You need external power... you need a screen that tilts... you need an external recorder... you need a speedbooster. Without these things the experience will be less than optimal. However, right now... without anything added, the in camera footage from the Z6 is excellent. Add a decent mic, lower the internal pres and add some gain from the mic and audio is more than usable. I know... I’ve done it. The Nikon is fully functional right out of the box. Not sure how one can even compare the two with any credibility. Yes, the P4K sounded like a deal before this breakthrough, but what has happened is pretty substantial. I honestly would not consider a P4K in light of this announcement. This is why the new Z mount lenses are designed to accommodate video. The real question is... how will Sony answer this without threading on the toes of their cinema division?

With a sensor that is 1/4th the size and a body that is 2x larger... and battery life that is 1/3rd. But yeah... the P4k “manages” 4K @60.

Atomos recorded demos in ProRes raw sent from the Z6 and was showing the footage at CES. This footage was recorded from a 12 bit signal. This isn’t a theory... it’s a fact. Also you totally misquoted @Django twisting his words to support your view?

Jeremy Young is the CEO and founder of Atomos... And that is where the buck stops my friend. He didn’t say it “could” do 12 bit... he said it “does”. Oh snap... you didn’t buy a P4k did you?

A good compressed raw interest me more than 8k. Mainly because of the resources needed to work with 8k in post.

I think you left out a few things there buddy... what about, Stills, battery life, weather sealing, flash support, state of the art AF, flippy screen ability to travel ultra light boby only... no EVF. I could go on, but this list would consume a whole page. Let's keep it real... the only way to get the most out of the P4K is rigged. That 5" screen is great, but she doesn't tilt or flip. And many have reported poor performance in sunlight. The batteries last 40 minutes... that's not too long. And most are shooting to external ssd's. Add all the items you are omitting and you still have a fraction of the functionality and features as the Nikon... with a sensor that is 1/4 the size. Nikon has made the ML dream real. Finally, at long last the hybrid is being unleashed onto the world. One last thing, Jeremy from Atomos mentioned that Nikon can do Raw internal... but the Ninja V makes it possible to do in the near term. I would not be surprised to see this feature added when CF Express is released.

Jeremy from Atomos stated that the resolution in the video was 4k or higher. I'm thinking it can shoot 6k and perhaps some anamorphic options will be available. Nikon is taking off the gloves.

If you are referring to the Nikon Z6 it is definitely 12 bit raw... Per Jeremy Young founder and CEO of Atomos. Not sure where you heard otherwise, but you are misinformed.

Here is the Newsshooter interview with Jeremy from Atomos. Fast forward to the 5:55 in the video. They ask Jeremy from Atomos point blank about bit depth. Listen to his answer... nuff said! @androidlad and @Eric Calabros Oops wrong video... this one same marker 5:55... he is asked about bit depth.

Raw requires less processing power from the camera, as all the processing of the image and compression is done in post or by the external recorder. The main bottleneck with internal raw is the write speed of the memory card. This should not be an issue with XQD/CF Express. From what Atomos said, Nikon has been working on this for some time, but kept it under wraps until now. I would not be surprised to learn that they can output both 4k and 6k... or perhaps even anamorphic modes. It seems a given that Nikon will offer internal raw at some point. This is what we have been waiting for. Camera companies that are unrestricted by cinema divisions, that are willing to take the gloves off and add features that video shooters have been asking for. It's like Magic Lantern has their own department at Nikon. Did the release of the X-T3 sporn this seed? Who knows? One thing is certain, once the Genie is out of the bottle, it's near impossible to put it back in. This development is a logical step forward... why should Nikon and Fuji protect Canon's, Sony's and Panasonic's cinema lines? This move will inevitably cause these companies to have to offer up more to stay relevant. Either that or give up on mirrorless. I sense a shift in cinema coming. And it's a great time for hybrid shooters.

I’m thinking this is going to be getting a large price cut shortly. Nikon putting everyone on notice??

The Atomos guy states the Nikon Z6/7 internal raw is absolutely possible. He even makes it sound like something that they might well plan to implement at some point, The Atomos guy said they recorded in linear gamma.

Looks like Atomos is saying the Nikon can output higher resolution than 4K. Their video at CES was shot in 4K or more and at 12 bit.

@Geoff_L I had the view assist on when I made that video. Maybe the issue goes away in ProRes Raw... that would be nice.

My bad, I thought you meant the EOS R. I’m not sure... but if I was a guessing man I would say it would be pretty close. The C200 has advantages it’s a true cinema camera, but man this Nikon is surprisingly good in many ways.

I’m certain that we already know the outcome. Man this Nikon Z6 has me confused. 12 bit raw output. They are truly unburdened by a cinema line and can just offer anything they please. If not for this news the choice to stay Canon would be easy. But I’m doing repeated test back to back against the Canon and honestly the Nikon is better on most counts. But not flippy screen and AF are it’s Achilles’ heel... and slow glass. But it’s impressive on all other counts. BlackMagic Design should be worried... I can’t see too many people opting for a P4k over a fully weather sealed Nikon that is smaller, with better battery life, awesome photo mode and VR (IBIS).

Good point... then this is sort of a big deal. 12 bit raw in any flavor is huge. Wow is all I can say.

Hi @DaveAltizer I'm a bit confused about the Nikon Z with the Ninja V... I watched a video where they claimed the Nikon is outputting a 12 bit raw signal... not the 10 bit as expected. Could you please check with Atomos if this is true? Below is the video... check in his description. If so it could be a pretty big deal.

Would love to see RawLite with USB out on the EOS R. I'm sure they could do it.

I don't think the Fuji would embarrass any of these cameras. Though the Fuji is a great camera. The bar has truly been raised. If not for the AF performance the Nikon would be amazing. Looking back at that video, two notes: 1. I screwed up with the C200 in the scene at around the 2 minute mark... where all three cameras are shown. I was setting up the Nikon and was very close to the lens of the C200, so it was constantly hunting to try to get focus; so I switched off the AF. I didn't discover this until later. So the focus on the C200 is a bit off. 2. The Nikon with face detect AF enabled and set to optimal settings was out of focus the entire time. I moved around in front of it, hoping it would pick up on my face... but clearly it never did. I could not see the back of the camera and did not bother with connecting the Ninja V as I wanted to understand what to expect when traveling light. As it stands, I think the EOS R has the edge over the Nikon in usability and practicality. The Nikon can produce great imagery... I have seen it do this. But you really have to be on top of it. The EOS R can mostly be trusted to just perform. The C200 is s C200... we know if holds focus. It only failed as I was distracted by the Nikon trying to get it setup. With IQ as good as it is, perhaps the focus ? now shifts to easy of use, setup and handling. In my experience those qualities can be the difference between carrying a camera or leaving it behind... the difference between a stressful shoot or a pleasant one. When I'm out casually, I do frequently like to take a camera along. But seldom would I also take a monitor/recorder. So a flip screen is important. I think it's this reason that I tend to stare clear of small cameras that require rigging to be functional. It simply defeats the purpose.

If the differences comparing SLog 2 to ProRes Raw are minor, I have to imagine even less difference when comparing 10 bit NLog to 10 bit ProRes Raw. I’ll need to see footage before I’m convinced. Imo, they should have focused more on fixing requested bugs and adding requested features. Now if this was 14 bit raw video things would be different. But as things stand... Idk. You will not see more dynamic range. That will still be set to whatever it is limited to. They need to put out some footage.