Beritar

I'm more and more interested by the Nikon Z system. I'm a hardcore Panasonic GH and S user but I'm disappointed by the S5II and the S5II(X), they improved the AF and the IBIS a lot, but the image quality in video is not there anymore for me. The only advantage they have compared to other system is the IBIS now. Of course the 24-70mm, 70-200mm and 50mm S Pro are great lenses, but where are the 24,35,85,135 S Pro ? And I don't even speak about f1.2 lenses.

Do you shoot with the standard profiles or in V-Log ? A lot of people don't really see the difference in V-Log, but the standard profiles are really much worse, especially in 4K or C4K, a very bad mix of over-sharpening and chroma noise reduction. This is why I use most of the time 6K or 6K Open gate V-Log on the S5II. But on these resolutions, the IBIS is much worse than on 4K and C4K... Walking while recording is very difficult because the cameras makes more "jumps".

Each time I apply blur to my footage on the S5II, it becomes unatural, some textures look good and some don't. The sharpness is not the only issue, like I said. The S5II/X have more spatial chroma noise reduction, leading to loss of colour detail, like in skin texture and foliage, about a value of 20~25 in Resolve is required to match the S1/S5 chroma detail to S5iiX. But yes some people are prefectly fine with the internal output of the S5II, especially if they don't crop a lot inside their videos, but to my eyes, the S5II internal recording is really not as good as the S1, S5 and S1H. I am not even talking about the standard profiles in 4K or C4K, one of the worst image I've seen between every Panasonic cameras I owned (almost all since the GH4), the difference with the S1,S5,S1H is huge, very excessive sharpening and smoothed out details (I think I've posted some videos about the issue).

Yes the image is much nicer in my opinion. But outside of the AF, the IBIS of the S5II is also better, I can almost walk with the S5II with my 85mm S, you really can't on the S1 and S1H. And some features are great on the S5II too, like the zoom while recording. I hope the new S1II/S1HII will get the best of the old and new Gen.

You can't use H264 with 5,9K/6K/Open Gate. I don't see any crushed black on the GH6 between H265 or H264, the crushed black is only with Prores, it's because the levels are not set correctly.

If you blur the S5II, it will not get the same level of details of the S1. And vice versa, adding some sharpening on the S1 footage still make it nicer than the S5II. The S5II shows really harsher edges + more spatial chroma noise reduction, nothing comparable to when you add in camera sharpening in the S1 or when you add sharpening in post in Premiere or Resolve. I don't understand why Panasonic messed up their internal video engine like this, they were so close to perfect before. I don't want my image to be soft, I want details, but organic details, unprocessed. If I want a soft image, I still can shot in 1080P and upscale it. This is where I'm lost when I see some people buying 6K or 8K camera to finally destroy most of the fine details to look like 1080P footage I think the S1 has a really good balance between organic and sharp. For me it is still one of the most underated hybrid camera. The case of cameras like the S1H are different, they don't blur anything digitally, and while they make the image softer for both photo and video, they are most of the time free from moiré while still having a lot of details.

Agreed, it is not because PDAF because the external BRAW is flawless. However, unlike you, I see the difference with the first S cameras almost each time, maybe because I use big screen with high resolution, I also crop a lot inside my 6K video to make some effects. Yes V-log is less impacted than the standard profiles like you can see in the comparison, but for me it still not as good, it also has more spatial chroma noise reduction even in V-log.

For those who are interested by the difference of the fine details rendering (internal recording) between the S1 and the S5II in 5,9K. V-Log, ISO 4000, sharpness and NR at 0, internal recording, 10 bits, same lens, same settings : The S1 has at least the same level of detail but looks more organic. The S5II on the contrary, has rougher edges. Natural, ISO 1250, sharpness and NR at -5, internal recording, 10 bits, same lens, same settings : This time the difference is much worse with the standard profiles, it looks like smartphone footage, of course there are more details than on smartphone (even with 8K smartphone), but they are really over-sharpened. On the S5II, I never use 4K and C4K because they are even worse, especially with the standard profiles. But using the 5,9K/6K or Open Gate mode decrease the IBIS performance, it's very noticeable while walking (of course ambassasors never test the IBIS with these modes). I really hope the rumored S1II and S1HII will improve the video engine of the S5II.

I agree, I always shot 4K 8 bits on my GH4/G80/NX1/GH5/GX9/S5 and I never had serious issues. I'm forced to use 4K 10 bits on the S5II everytime though, because V-log (while not as good as the first S5) has nicer details rendering than the standard profiles.

Not so much. My wife uses Sony cameras, I'm not a fan of them but I like some FE lenses so I use them occasionnaly ... Otherwise, I only use M43 and Panasonic L mount (I also have my good old NX1 and NX500).

Yes, on M43 it's hard to get the same look than a FF 35mm f1.4 or f1.2. I have the 35mm GM for that, awesome lens, ultra sharp wide open with nice bokeh, and not so large and heavy. It's one of the best lens I ever used. I would love to put this lens on my Panasonic S cameras ...

Sadly the 20mm f1.7II is still very noisy, but at least the AF-C is not bad on the G9II !

The AF-C is relatively fast on the G9II, it's very surprising :

The 25mm and 45mm Oly Pro lenses are even heavier than the 50mm and 85mm f1.8 S. But yes both the Oly share similar size and weight. Technically, you can say they are close to f2.5 for DOF and Bokeh, they are also less sharp wide open than the S 50mm and 85mm Panasonic FF. But their bokeh and rendering are great, and we can't get the same IBIS quality, the same rolling shutter and the 4K 120fps when using the S lenses on the S5II.

For sure, the 50mm f1.8 S is much smaller with the S5 or S5II. Very sharp lens, almost clinical, with good bokeh at short to medium distance. But the G9II with the PL 25mm is still nicer to use (smaller and lighter) and has IMHO better character : And just for fun, a comparison with the little 20mm pancake 😅 :

Always amazed by the size and weight of the 25mm f1.4 (or 20mm f1.7) and 35-100mm f2.8. When I compare them to my 50mm and 70-200mm (f2.8) S Pro, I think I will not sell my M4/3 stuff anytime soon. There are some alternatives to the 25mm PL for full frame, I tried the 45mm f2.8 Sigma for my S1/S5III (very similar for dof, bokeh etc) but I prefer to use the PL, better rolling shutter and stabilization on the G9II. I really can't see an alternative to the 20mm f1.7 and the 35-100mm f2.8 though.

A GH5 with the colors of the GH6 and the AF of the G9II for about $1K would be perfect for me.

There is a benefit though. Much less moiré than the GH5 and G9, also the footage can look more cinematic without doing much in post because some fine details are smoother. The GH6 and G9II also use more noise/chroma noise reduction with most profiles than the first GH5 and G9. To get ride of it, you must use the "huge" 5,7K Pro Res mode in V-Log. But the AF is so bad in 24/30fps (AF accuracy issues) that I never used it. In any case, to really see the difference you need to crop a lot, and the details become really nasty only in low light, I'm sure 90% of users will never see the difference, like most never seen the edge sharpening/chroma noise reduction difference between the S5II and S5/S1. I even think most people prefer to get slightly altered details with less noise than more preserved details with full of noise.

I still have my good old NX1 and NX500. Indeed, even at ISO 200, with bad light, details fall apart, very mushy. Back in 2014/2015 I was really disappointed by this mushy rendering in low light compared to my GH4, I was one of the first to point out : This exactly what the S5II is doing with most picture profiles (internal), of course the S5II has much better low light performance so it's much less worse, but when I crop inside the low light videos of both my S1 and S5II, I can see more or less the same difference, the S1 keeps much better details than my S5II (V-Log is really better but details are still not as good as on the S1, mostly because of weird edge sharpening). About the rolling shutter, it is really bad in 4K on the NX1, one the worst I've seen, but the image was and is still gorgeous with the right light, especially with the 16-50mm and 50-150mm NX S. Iirc, the RS is close to 30ms. I also have the NX500 somewhere in my house, but I never really liked the video quality compared to the NX1. In good light the NX1 is full of details, the NX500 much less, probably because of the big crop. Also the NX500 has more difficulty to nail the focus in 4K, and it has no electronic stabilization, which is very handy with the little 30mm and 45mm on the NX1. I used the hacked firmware of the NX500 allowing the 2,5K mode, the rolling shutter was excellent, below 10ms for sure, but the image quality was not good, there was sometimes weird lines and aliasing.

Sadly, this is just a stupid nickname 🙃. About the mambo jambo textures, when using BRAW on the S5II, the image is free from the weird edge sharpening, the image is great, juste like the internal S1 and S5 with their last firmware. So yes, like you I hope they will allow to turn off most of their bad processing, they surely can.

Hard to say because I already sold the GH6. However, like the S5 and S5II, the G9II and GH6's colors are slightly different. But honestly the G9II's colors are really good, the best I've seen (with the GH6) from a Panasonic camera. From what I've read, the sensors inside these two M43 cameras come from TowerJazz, as opposed to Sony with the GH5/G9/S5II/S5/S1H/S1.

Ahah, no, of course it is on the original files, I never pixel peep on converted files. I don't like the digital look at all like on smartphone (when everything is oversharpened), but I don't like digital processing making the image soft or sharp artificialy either. I sometime need to keep all the fine details for my videos, I don't want they have digital sharpening, I just want the same details as a raw photo without any digital processing. If I really need a soft image looking, I think the 1080P of my GH5 with a bit of un-sharpen is perfect, no need for a 4K or 6K camera. If I un-sharpen a video file looking like a raw photo, as on the GH5, the result is good, because every details are there. But when I un-sharpen a file like on the GH6, it just doesn't look as good in my opinion, especially in low light, it looks more like if the image is upscaled. My S5II also has bad processing going on internaly compared to previous S cameras, bad edge sharpening even in V-log, making the fine details less thin, and also chroma noise reduction more or less significant depending on the profile used. Of course, most of the time and depending on your screen, you need to crop in order to see the difference. Digital processing like the Intelligent Detail Filter on the GH6 can certainly helps with moiré, but nothing come close to a OLPF like on the S1H for the nicest image quality. I even prefer to use my GH5 in low light compared to the GH6 below 1600 ISO, sure the GH6 is cleaner, but something just looks off about fine details rendering. Of course, downscaling the file to 1080P or viewing it on small screen doesn't make a big difference between both cameras. Again, it's really when cropping we can see that the details rendering is not the same. But it is not so simple, because the colors of the GH6 are really really nice, I just love their new 25MP M43 sensor, it has natural and rich tones in video (and photos of course), nicer than on my S5II IMHO. Last time I loved the colors of a camera as much was with the Samsung NX1. My G9II has more or less the same colors than the GH6, but on the cooler side, and more magenta overall. Nothing that can't be fixed in post though.

Yes but it is not only a problem with sharpening, both the GH6 and the G9II have a digital filter to remove moire, but the result is not so great, some details looks smoothed out, especially in low light. I much prefer the details of previous Panasonic cameras. On the old G9 and GH5, the fine details looked really like on a raw photo, it was very sharp but like you said it's pretty easy to un-sharpen in post. But on the GH6 and G9II, the Intelligent Detail Filter just destroys fine details making some areas of the image soft and some areas very sharp.

Yes, IBIS is very good on this lens, especially with the S5II and S1. Sometimes you can get it for about 800€ in Europe with cashback. It's a fine lens, even the colors are pretty nice. The 70-200mm is pretty heavy yes, but the Sigma is not so much lighter. The bokeh is nicer on the S Pro. And I just love how the light renders on this lens, the local contrast and colors, this is truly beautiful, it's similar to the 24-70mm S Pro and it is why I prefer the S Pro lenses over the Sigma DG DN.

Yes, the 70-300mm is a nice "little" zoom. I have both the 70-300mm and the 70-200mm S Pro f2.8. The 70-300mm is sharp across all focal lengths, maybe a bit softer at 300mm but still very good. The difference with the 70-200mm F4 is not so huge since the S cameras have excellent low light performances. The 70-200mm S Pro f2.8 is a different beast. Yes, it's sharp, but the rendering is outstanding, maybe because of the implication of Leica (or not), one of the best lens I own with the 24-70mm and 50mm S Pro.