markr041

Are we judging cameras by manufacturers stock prices now? 🙂 I have been shooting with GoPro's since the Hero 4 (including 3D!). GoPro has indeed from model to model made substantial improvements while essentially keeping the same form factor and price. That is the history. The 4's, for example, overheated but did not have thermal protection so that they did not turn off (and thus you got images that bloomed), each successive model had an issue. But also new capabilities. I agree the 12 is a very, very, very trivial improvement on the 11, especially if you use Labs firmware - amazing capabilities. GoPro software is irrelevant (and they mostly have dropped whatever they had)- but who needs it who is serious about editing? Subscriptions do give you discounts on new cameras, so it does cheapen the hardware upgrades non-trivially. If you subscribe, sell the Hero 11, you can probably pay a net of $150 for a new Hero 12. Yes, that's a lot for a "firmware" upgrade, but you do get an added and fresh battery and a new warranty (including the subscription insurance)! Is it fair to say the 12 has the least "bugs"? And, if it has some, what exactly are they? I have shot loads of Hero 12 video at 5.3K 60p - the most extreme and taxing mode, at 180 Mbps, with 10bit color and the full color gamut and log gamma. And 4K 120p too. I have not encountered a single problem. What am I missing? should I worry about something? Let us all know. I have a shoot coming up.

Btw, according to one of the crew in a blog post, GoPro's were also used. But that is true for many productions.

I understand what you want to know and why, but I do not shoot 4K, only 5.3K, I don't shoot clips more than a few minutes in length, and I do not shoot underwater. So, I cannot help you. When one shoots short clips like I do, battery life is irrelevant - carrying an extra GoPro battery and switching are not important burdens. I would suggest searching "Hero 12 underwater video". I found a bunch of videos of people shooting underwater with a Hero 12 and who formerly used a Hero 12. You could ask them in the comments section about battery life. "Fintastic Films" is one example,. That is better than listening to anyone quoting a site or to somebody, like me, who gets nothing from longer battery life (overheating is another thing).

I am sorry, but where exactly did you get that info? I went to the PetaPixel review of the Hero 12. Here is a direct quote: "The Hero11 also had some throttling issues due to overheating. Shooting 5.3K 60 FPS video would usually top out at around 35 minutes. The Hero12 must have a more efficient, cooler running processor because we are now getting around 75 minutes before it needs to take a break. " That IS more than a doubling of effective battery life (taking into account overheating). Here is the link to the review: https://petapixel.com/2023/09/08/gopro-hero-12-black-review-a-step-not-a-leap-forward/ I hope that you can clarify the basis for your claim of a 10-15% increase.

Yes, always base ISO (800). And I do not think that clip was underexposed overall and pushed up in post. Could be just as you say, small pixels necessary for high resolution.

More 8K frame grabs from RAW video:

My experience shooting 8K RAW with the Nikon Z8 is similar - the 8K videos look stunning even viewed in 8K on 4K monitors. Of course, extracting stills from video slips runs up against shooting at low frame rates and shutter speeds. I shoot at 8K 60p because I am into "you are there" video, not filmic video. And shooting at 1/125th is sufficient for most stills-from-video to avoid blur. An 8K video, and extracted 8K stills: You can only watch this in 8K using the Chrome browser - neither Edge nor safari will display in 8k no matter what (actually I got to select 8K just clicking on the video here and I am using Edge!?). Some extracted stills:

Noise reduction OFF. Better.

And now, G-Log and Native WB Color Using the GoPro LUT for that setting (Native is the widest color gamut of the GoPro sensor). The LUT is not a simple transform - apply and you are don. I had to much around with enormous changes in luma, contrast. I did not touch the color. Here is what an ungraded Native color clip in G-Log looks like: And here is wha the clip looks like after applying the GoPro LUT and fixing it:

Meanwhile here is a video I shot with the Hero 11, with exactly the same settings (5.3K 60P, 10bit color, AWB, 180 Mbps, sharpness low) except I used the Flat profile, not the G-Log (since there was none). This light was lower, and noise reduction was turned off but yet the video appears to have little noise and to have higher resolution: I was happy with the result. I am not happy with the Hero 12 G-Log result.

I think that's a good idea.

Hypersmooth is great, not matched by anything. No blowouts - dynamic rage good, colors good. But... More noise, softness I never saw before. Shot in Linear + Horizon Leveling, 5.3K 60P, 10bit, G-Log, auto WB. Edited using the G-Log LUT, with no other color changes, but lots of luma adjustments (many of the clips were overexposed (but no clipping - maybe does on purpose for G-Log). Shooting without worrying about focus, color, stabilization, keeping the camera level and being able to move with the camera effortlessly without extra equipment is always a pleasure.

Interestingly, that picture is NOT the Canon V10 - it is Canon's Legria Mini/Mini X from long ago, as a poster indicated. Kye is correct, there is a thread on the V10; as usual filled with YouTube influencer videos, misinformation, and no original contributions from any users. some sneering, as usual too. My post is a parody (sorry I did not place a proper emoji to indicate that). But I am so glad that Kye has straightened us all out with his categorization. It is really important to classify cameras - what is a P&S, what is a cinema camera, what is a hybrid camera, an action camera, a real cinema camera. Maybe he can supply a spreadsheet of all cameras with columns for his classifications. Here you are: it does not matter what a camera is classified as; what matters is what one can do with it. actually, I would have thought Kye would have agreed with that obvious thought. ;)

Sony's Cinetone-S is not the only OOC pseudo-cinema look. This camera has a dozen. This camera also has a real built-in ND filter, cinema aspect-ratio LCD guidelines, external mic jack, manual control of audio, wind protector attachments and a cage available. No IBIS-distorting stabilization, just like real cinema cameras. LCD red border tally for live recording. .

Bluetooth audio, likely not possible by a firmware upgrade. Not saying that is important or not important. Took out GPS - also not possible with firmware downgrade. 😆

Americana: 12bit RAW, and I needed all the latitude I could get given the very mixed lighting levels (luma adjustments in post) and the different colors of the lighting (WB adjustments in post).

4K 120P NRAW. Hot card warning. Short original clips extended and trimmed in post..

Th recordings of the violinist were about 2-3 minutes each. The rest of the shots were about 10-15 seconds. The camera was out for two hours in the sun, 78 F.

8K 60P RAW. Hot card warning only.

180 Mbs HEVC, 5.3K 60p, 10bit color, wide gamut, but all transformed to 8bit REC709. This was mainly a test of some guy's LUT to see the colors. Do you SEE mush? Does this LOOK bit-starved, even though it has gone through YouTube compression (another high efficiency codec) at a much lower bitrate? And, the video was cropped in camera to reduce fisheye distortion. I think there are people who are not up to date on what modern codecs/processors can do, perhaps because they have not used any newer cameras they comment on. They rest on their decades-old film school habits. Now they just read or, in some cases, misread selective specs (bitrates). Yes, bitrate matters, but so does the codec. Which is not news to just about anyone, just about anyone. I have shot the highest bitrate real RAW video, and I find it hard to distinguish the quality from much, much lower bitrate H265 video, recorded in the latest cameras, at least in terms of resolution (lack of mush). Codecs, codecs, codecs. And processors that can execute them, all advanced enormously in the last few years. Everyone needs to keep up. And, no, the Hero11 video quality is not as good as the latest ARRI. But it's not chopped liver either.

GoPro Labs firmware also enables customizing the gamma curve. You can in fact emulate, for example, Fuji's log F-log. You can also select the color space (gamut), for example, REC2020. You can also select the amount of noise reduction. I have done all this, not just read a Wikipedia article. Fact.

Wiseguy, do you know about GoPro Labs firmware? As usual, you get your info from the internet and pass on what you read. Two people instruct you on your false information, but you go on. I have personally shot 200Mbps 5.3k GoPro videos. Read by metadata as 200Mbps. I can't say I notice a big difference, but the option is there. GoPro Labs firmware. Google that. Maybe also get a GoPro, learn what it can do, and get back to us after you have actual experience. Let's see if you can refrain from making a nasty reply to cover your doubling down on your mistake.

You not knowing GoPro do not know that you can up the bitrate right now on the Hero 11 and earlier models to 200 Mbps using GoPro Labs firmware. This is H265 (10bit). And, btw, you can turn off all noise reduction (unlike some fancy cameras). I missed the post right above! Sorry about that.