mercer

Idk, if you think you’re desensitized to that, then I guess I would start with something simple like looking at two shots of the same exact footage with one shot in 24p and one shot in 30p. Use the 180 Degree rule for both to keep the other variables consistent (so 1/60th shutter for the 30p footage and 1/48 or 1/50 for the 24p footage) See what you notice. If you notice no difference whatsoever, then you are probably 25 or under and it won’t matter because you’re the future and all of this stuff will be antiquated in 10 or 20 years when you guys are running the world.

Okay, I’d buy that but there has to be a threshold, right? Do you think it would be any camera over a certain price point, or any camera with specific features? We have some very high end users that visit this forum (yourself included) that shoot with an Ursa Pro or EVA1 or C200 and Reds and I assume John Brawley shoots with the Alexa regularly. Those cameras are designed for cinema. But for the rest of us that use consumer/prosumer gear and try to emulate the cinematic look, I believe certain cameras are better suited for that than others. I don’t know if it’s dynamic range, color science or a Log Profile, rolling shutter, etc... obviously it’s a combination of everything. But either way there are definitely sub-$2000 cameras that are naturally more cinematic than other sub-$2000 cameras.

You’re well on you way. Just understanding why you would use certain grading and lenses is great info to have. The war film was Saving Private Ryan and yes Spielberg is a master for shooting those scenes that way. As far as motion cadence, I’m sure there is a tangible reason but we aren’t privy to each camera’s special sauce to discern the exact reason. But you can quickly know it when you see it and which cameras have good cadence and which don’t. I’ve noticed that exact frame rates may help... so true 24p instead of 23.976... slow motion as well... lol. You have 3 cameras, don’t you? The XC10, a 700D and a 700D with Magic Lantern? You could always run some tests and do a motion comparison by messing with settings in ML?

Yup, this is why I predict Sony or Panasonic will get out of the consumer/prosumer camera business before Canon or Nikon will.

Oh I agree. I am liking some stuff I am seeing from the GH5s. I think I was looking at @mkabi challenge as which way is each camera easier to go... so I guess in a lot of ways, it is best to be closer to 5... but I also think if a camera can come close to a modern film look, it usually can achieve a vintage film look.

@webrunner5 which Zacuto rig do you have?

Damn it I wanted to give the 5D3 a 9-9.5 but thought I’d look like a dick because that’s what I shoot with. But yes nobody should care about my opinion. The best camera is the one you own. End of story. But okay... vintage vs. modern with 1 being closer to vintage look and 10 being closer to modern look... 5D3 (ML Raw) - 5 GX85 - umm 6ish GH5 - 7 GH5s - 8 1DXii - 5 t2i - 3 GH2 - 4 X-H1 - 7 A7iii - 7

Well, @mkabi I think this is a tough question because it so subjective, not just to taste, but also to what someone is capable of doing with said camera. Or if we haven’t used said camera, do we base our scoring on the best video we saw by the best operator or by the worst video we saw by the worst operator? Look at the 1DC vs 1DXii. Both are very capable cameras with similar specs. But the 1DC has a little bit more mojo (shit I brought the word mojo into the discussion.... we need another thread to prove that doesn’t exist) but the 1DC has CLog... so is that the missing factor? Okay if I am forced to annoy a bunch of people with one person’s opinion... here it goes... 5D3 (ML Raw) - 8 GX85 - 4 GH5 - 5.5 GH5s - 6.5 1DXii - 7 X-H1 - 6.5 A7iii - 6.5 Coincedentally, the camera I own gets the highest score... LOL. But part of that scoring system is based on what I think I could do with the camera or based on an opinion from an amalgamation of videos I’ve seen shot with that camera.

Ha, I don’t know, it may be easier to eff up a cell phone video. This is my theory and I expect a downvote or two for saying this but it isn’t directed at anyone specifically... On forums like this, a lot of people like to believe that skill and talent will push them and that they have it, so it becomes an ego thing. But if that were entirely true, then why would Alexas even exist? If talent was all it took, then just go out and buy a t2i and make some Hollywood level films. A hacked GH2 would be more than enough, you would think. Talent and skill is the unsaid-said... obviously talent and skill helps. But for amateurs, camera choice can make your life a lot easier... it does for me anyway.

Haha, honestly I am probably the last person to ask, but in reality I haven’t really watched that many videos from either. With that being said, I love the footage I’ve seen from the X-T2 so with the new Eterna profile and IBIS (even with its supposed issues... although I have read so many contradictory accounts that span from the best IBIS to a piece of crap) the X-H1 should be a great camera. I follow some Fuji shooters on IG, and their images have a glint of that modern “film” look we were discussing, so I could see Fuji being a main contender. I’ve always had a soft spot for Sony and their weird colors. So I love some original a7s footage and the a5100/a6000 footage and even the RX10/ii footage as well. But me and Sony just doesn’t mix. I have like 2 tricks up my sleeve and neither works with Sony footage. With that being said, the A7iii looks awesome and the price is amazing. So if I had to choose between the two I would go with the Sony... because I like to think I’ll figure out sLog one of these days but to date I can only get acceptable B&W with it...

I’d agree with this statement... I mean how could I not. But I know for a fact that I can shoot the same exact shot with a GX85 and with my 5D3 Raw and the 5D3 footage will look more cinematic. Hopefully you take this as a compliment because it is meant in no other way, but I think your 1Dxii footage looks more cinematic than your more recent Panasonic stuff. Now I assume you haven’t become less skilled over the past year, so there has to be a camera element involved? To clarify, I do not think your Panasonic footage looks bad, it looks cool, but I do see a difference between the two.

So you don’t believe there is a camera element involved and it’s all based on the users skill level? You know The Revenant is the perfect example of the modern “film” look to me. And Scarface is the perfect example of the vintage film look. When the DSLR revolution began, I believe a bastardized version of the vintage film look was possible with a 5D2 or a t2i or a GH2 and now it seems we’re almost at a point where a bastardized version of the modern “film” look is possible. If I was forced to explain what about the image makes those films cinematic... I would be at a loss for words other than... open your eyes. But in forums like these where tech and creativity are merged, that is not a good enough answer to many... but unfortunately that’s the best I can do... I know it when I see it. And I know it when I accomplish it... Sadly, I see it more often than I accomplish it... lol.

Yeah I’ve heard that too. I love shallow depth of field and use a lot of it in B-Roll in between scenes to show time passing or to introduce a new location and I realized how great 60p smooths out my handheld rack focuses... I too drink a lot of coffee.

Yeah that is way too technical for my interests and brain. I’ve always thought of motion cadence to be directly related to how things look when they move within the frame... be it a person’s stride or a car driving across the frame.

Yeah I am pretty sure I could make Alexa footage look like pixelvision, so you’re right. But I’ve always subscribed to the notion, show me the worst footage from a camera and that’s what one should expect from it. It’s one of the reasons I decided against the GH5. Obviously in competent hands, the GH5 and almost any camera available is capable of great imagery. But the operator should know what they’re capable of and those limitations should be considered when purchasing a $2500 camera, or a $500 camera.

Do you have Popeye’s Chicken in the UK? It’s pretty good, but there is something strange happening in its chemical makeup... it literally smells exactly the same going in as it does coming out. And let me tell you, the motion cadence as you run to the toilet is not very cinematic.

Yeah that “safari” video does nothing good for the GH5s. In comparison, it looks like the Nikon D850 “safari” video was shot on an Alexa.

We have a chain of gas stations opening up in our area that is known for its fried chicken... yup a gas station. I haven’t tried it yet but everybody says it’s better than KFC and Popeyes. Chicken Treat sounds delicious. Now I’m hungry.

I’m sure there is a scientific cocktail that explains why professional cinema cameras look more cinematic than consumer cameras and why some consumer cameras look more cinematic than others. All I know is that I know it when I see it.

Yeah I love 50mm lenses. On FF they’re perfect all arounder and if I was forced to have one lens, it would be a 50mm or a 35mm. IMO, cropped or FF, they’re both great focal lengths and a whole film could be shot with either if need be.

@Papiskokuji I agree about the RX10ii. I’ve had it twice and the camera has something really cool about it. It’s 1080p is soft and sometimes even ugly but there is something thick and filmic about the image. The slow motion helps give it a cinematic look because motion cadence with slow motion always looks spot on. But the 24p also has a cool feel to it. I also agree that it can have a BMPCC feel to it. Great little camera... even the audio is pretty awesome in a pinch.

Chicken Treat sounds about as real as motion cadence and cinematic. Lol.

Exactly! I read the BMCUser forum and am surprised by home many diehards have abandoned their Pocket cams solely for ease of use. There’s an idea that good enough is okay... as long as it has 4K and IBIS. Lol.

I’d take a BMPCC/BMMCC over a GH5 any day of the week, especially for narrative work. Sure the GH5/s may be an easier solution but at a certain point, getting a great image isn’t necessarily supposed to be easy. But if you want an all in one easy solution, the GH5 will beat the BM cameras every day of the week. But if you want a more cinematic look at half the cost, the Pocket or Micro wins.

I’m interested to know this too. Have you found any info on the internets? I’m also interested to find out if the crop modes or experimental builds allow for any continuous slow motion. If I could get a constant 60p... or really just 15 seconds... at close to 1080p, I’d be more than happy. But I’d love 72fps if possible.