mercer

Honestly, I don’t worry about crop factors any more. I have FF Raw with my 5D3. Everything else is just a crop. I get other people’s issues with it but I am really just kinda tired of adapters. I used only vintage glass when I first started shooting video, so I bought an adapter for every lens and rear lens cap for every adapted lens. Now I have 3 boxes of adapters and lens caps taking up space. Ever since I got the 5D3, I am slowly building a small set of EF lenses and with the two vintage sets I am building, I am searching for copies with the Leitax mount or plan on having them Leitaxed. I may eventually change the F mount to EF on my ai-s lenses. Not to mention, with the BMCC it has the same crop as the GH4 with native lenses so... and the EF is an active mount on the BMCC. So, with all that being said, I would definitely get the EF version at the right price. But with that being said, your final suggestion is probably the right way to go... I’ll probably end up getting a Micro for the 60p. I’m in no rush right now to get any camera. It was a one off, I’m pretty sure the guy just wanted to dump it for some quick cash right before the holidays. But I’m still kicking myself. I’ve made a list of saved searches, on eBay, for everything I would need to build the smallest, most useful BMMCC rig to fit my shooting style and by the end of the year, I hope to piece it together for a grand or less. Of course, if I hadn’t cancelled that order, I would have been under $800... damn... what was I thinking?!?!

Yup, there is so much juice in the files, I don’t see why people would need much more than ProRes in most instances.

I hear ya but there’s a 60 year history of F mount lenses... that’s a lot of lenses to abandon for a new mount on a professional FF mirrorless.

You can adapt Nikon lenses to anything you just can’t adapt other lenses to a Nikon camera. But yes, AF has always been an issue with the F mount.

Yeah Zak, that has a nice look to it. That red flare is nuts.

An EF Mount brings millions of lenses to the table. It keeps professional photographers from having to fiddle with adapters or starting from scratch with a new lens line. It could also easily bring back the plethora of Sony users who left Canon for Sony but kept their Canon glass. I have a couple of friends that are pretty serious about video and they only use native lenses. They would rather buy into a different system than use an adapter. And even myself, I’ve only just started using native lenses and I am already tired of adapting my vintage stuff... I’m tired of dozens of adapters lying around. So much so, I am slowly building a small set of Contax Zeiss that I am having modded with Leitax adapters. And once I know for sure that Nikon is introducing a new mount for their mirrorless cameras, I will most likely Leitax my ai-s lenses to EF as well. I actually don’t care if they go Mirrorless, it just seems they will give more video features with a mirrorless cam than they do with their DSLRs. I love using DSLRs. I prefer the form factor and the weight. I get other people like EVFs but I literally only use the LCD screen.

Well it’s still a big market so 5% is a lot of people but it would be pretty nuts for Canon or Nikon to abandon what their professional photographers would want in a professional FF mirrorless. Obviously, the GH5s is geared toward the videographer but it is a niche product for a niche market... it’s also questionable if Panasonic will make a huge profit off the GH5s. On the day of release, anybody could have walked into BH and bought one off the shelf... so it may not be as hot of a seller as Panasonic hoped it would be. But it’s also a great bridge between the GH5 and the EVA1... so even at a loss it could prove to be a success in the long run As far as the Canon Cine line... are there numbers out there that confirm the lion share of C100 or C300s came from a DSLR background? Or did pro camcorder users move over from the XH line into the C line? Obviously, I want as much video features as possible in all of these cameras but there seems to be this neverending idea on this forum that video users are the bulk of users for these cameras and that Canon and Nikon should be introducing features solely for us. And it just isn’t correct. If Canon releases a professional FF mirrorless that doesn’t have an EF Mount, it would be the dumbest move of the year. And I personally think that Nikon is making a mistake as well introducing a new mount.

@mkabi well like it or not, video users represent... what... 5% of the market for these cameras. You can call it conservative but I consider it being realistic.

@Snowfun are you having issues preserving quality exporting from Resolve as a ProRes master file? Now this is slightly irrelevant, but I have noticed a lot of the higher end creators use Parallel Uploader on Vimeo... do you or anyone else know if there is a reason. I keep meaning to research it but I have so many other things on my plate, I haven’t gotten around to it. Yeah, I would agree it’s more than slight, but I also think I, or people like us, are the only people that would notice or care. And with the benefits of shooting ProRes instead of Raw on BM cameras, one really needs to weigh if that gain is worth it... especially if you’re an FCPX user. Good points and something worth considering. I went from the BMMCC to the XC10 so I understand why you chose the way you did. But I only tested the 4K on that camera and mostly worked with the 1080p C-Log... so I am not the norm of most of the people on this forum. My opinion with most of this stuff is based on my very specific needs and thoughts. Pretty nice color work, especially considering you didn’t use an IR filter. I attempted to go handheld with the Pocket and the 12-35mm and the 14-45mm and found it possible but limited and probably only works in bare bones setups.

A smooth integration means an adapter. For us video guys, we don’t mind adapters so much. But will a professional photographer... (you know the guys and gals these cameras are made for) ...will they want to use an adapter with all of their FX lenses just to have a mirrorless camera? Each lens becomes larger so some of the benefits of the smaller form factor is gone and with every connection there is a slight risk of failure. Nikon has way too rich of a lens history to muck it up IMO.

Well wouldn’t the camera with a higher base iso have the advantage especially when considering lowlight and DR? But I think overexposing sLog by 2 stops has to do with noise in the curve and not DR?

So it’s obviously a flawed test because the GH5 starts off at a disadvantage being a stop over its base ISO.

At second glance, I stand corrected. I thought he was doing a respective ISO test going from each camera’s base iso but he was actually doing an even iso test which is a strange DR comparison test. I think I am also tired.

Right but I think the test in question from the video was showing the difference in DR from their respective base ISO. So vLog’s base ISO is what... 400? And sLog is 800. So when you go one stop up in ISO with vLog you’re at 800 ISO and one stop up with sLog you’re at 1600 ISO... two stops up with vLog you’re at 1600 ISO and two stops up with sLog you’re at 3200 ISO... etc, etc...

That’s the point of the test. You test how well the DR holds the further you are from base ISO.

I think you may be tired. As you said, it’s a dynamic range test... open the iris, close the iris, the DR won’t change at the same ISO at different apertures... only lens sharpness will. So to test DR, you need to change the ISO on both cameras to see which does better.

Thanks for sharing it. Would you mind sharing some of your workflow? How big of a rig did you use? Lenses? ProRes or Raw? Etc...?

Yeah, the ProRes is gorgeous. I started shooting ProRes when I had my Micro and I was astonished by how clean it was. But I did notice a slight difference with textures. I live on the edge of the woods, so trees are prevalent in a lot of my shots and the Raw footage definitely would pick up the texture of the bark a little better than the ProRes would, but moire isn’t as bad with ProRes, so that is what I mostly used... not to mention better storage. Plus I edit on FCPX, so it was great to just copy the files or bring them right into FC without any transcoding. I had the opportunity to buy another Micro right before Christmas for $450. The guy only used it once. I am kind of annoyed that I didn’t. I am very happy with my 5D3, but I wouldn’t mind some slow motion ProRes/Raw options for the toolbox, for various projects. I am not that great of a colorist, and the Micro was the first time I shot with a camera (other than my old Canon days) where I knew what it was like to get a cinematic image. I think I might be on the lookout for a used one and try to build a manageable rig for less than a grand... hopefully way less.

That’s true on some level, although I think ProRes HQ out of the Pocket and Micro has a higher bitrate than that. But your 4K examples aren’t the price point I am referring to. In the sub $1000 market, 4K bitrates hover around 100mbps, so really not that much higher than the 90mbps all-i 1080p out of the 80D. With that being said, I don’t hate 4K, I just feel consumer 4K is often thin and brittle and oversharpened with too heavy of noise reduction. For $500 used in ProRes and Raw you are getting a purer, thicker image, with a better basis for cinematic grading. The cheapest I’ve seen is $7-800. It’s pretty crazy that you can get a camera that shoots 2.5K Raw for around $500. I know the camera has its quirks but for smaller projects, that is a steal. And since I am slowly building my EF lenses, the EF version is exactly what I would want.

Yeah, me too.

I read the comments and it looks like it may have been shot in ProRes. I would have guessed Raw.

Wait, @lucabutera I never attacked you. Not once. If anything I agreed that the kid should have shown his cards. And I never defended the kid either. I was as skeptical as the next guy. But I also didn’t care because I never thought it was likely to begin with, nor would it ever affect me because I have no interest putting good money into a dead camera system. However I do love Raw video. But just because I was interested in watching this play fully out doesn’t mean I thought you were wrong.

Yeah I’ve seen them but they’re not really streamlined. A company named Kino... something makes a wooden handle version which looks cool but they’re almost as much as the camera. Well, either way, I’m not buying one today, so please keep us posted on your progress with the monitor. Sorry, yes that’s what I meant.

As soon as that Small HD Focus came out, I thought it would be perfect for the BMPCC, until I saw that it has a Micro hdmi cable on the one end... I guess an adapter wouldn’t be the end of the world but on of the benefits of the Micro is the full sized HDMI. Once you set the shutter angle you don’t really need to touch it again. So the only reason to go into the menus is for WB... and yes it’s a pain... I ended up setting it at 4400 or 5000 and treating that median number like it was AWB. It requires some correction in post but it was fairly simple... especially in Raw.

@BTM_Pix how long would a charge on that credit card sized power bank last? And how long do they take to charge? Because yeah, if it has a full hdmi port (or hardwired cables, plus one of those cases with a tripod thread that little guy could be perfect for the BMMCC. If you get it working and want to make a little cash, I may be interested in buying one from you. If you could come up with a side handle that would work the camera menus and the record button... I’d also be interested... asking too much? I honestly loved that camera. I finally knew what it was like to film with a real camera, but it was just too cumbersome for my style of shooting. For budgetary and time constraints, I need to drive down the road, get out of the car and get the shot, then move onto the next location as quick as possible... rigging that camera up for shooting and unrigging for safe transport became too much of a chore for my needs. I did get it down pretty good using small Slik quick release plates but it was still way too long and too big.