mercer

Regarding no budget features... I've heard of projects made for less than $10,000 that will get a streaming deal but I cannot imagine there is a lot of money to be made? What does the average filmmaker/producer make for getting a steaming deal with Tubi, etc...?

Honestly, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. I am just a hobbyist who has been using a 5D Mark III with 1080p ML Raw for the past 5-6 years as I attempt to make a few short films in my spare time. I'm hardly chasing cameras. I picked up a Sigma FP a few months ago, on a whim, and I like it. It has a nice image, I can't say for sure that it's a better image than the 5D though. I assumed the 14bit color from the 5D may be evening out the playing field, but what do I know... as I said... I'm not a professional like you guys are. I've always been a writer first, so story is the most important thing to me, but I'm not delusional enough to think I am going to sell a screenplay or make a film that will have any impact on anything. I enjoy doing it, though and I suppose there are worse things I could spend my money on. Next year I may buy a camcorder, making movies was a lot more fun back when camcorders were the only option for zero budget filmmakers. I will end with this, though. Since we're all being so brutally honest... none of these cameras look that good. If you're shooting with a P4K and a Sigma zoom, or a 5D3 with ML Raw... they all look amateurish. So when you guys attack other people for their choices... remember your choices probably look questionable as well. Then again, I've never seen any of your work, so maybe you guy's are artistic geniuses, but how could anyone know... only a few people share any of their work on this forum and when they do, the posts about the next best camera gets way more attention... Good luck to you.

Yes, I believe uncompressed raw is true raw no matter how it gets down to the final resolution. Look at the difference between 1080p raw from the 5D3 and 1080p raw from the Sigma FP... there's no comparison. That said, I don't really care how it gets there, all I know is it is the purest image I have ever used... absolutely no noise reduction or sharpening added. You can change the WB from 2800 to 7500, in post, without any degradation whatsoever. It's as pure as it gets at this price point, especially considering it's full frame. With that said... since you have shown zero interest in the 5D3, then why do you care either? And finally... It's more raw than compressed BRaw.

1080p raw video with 12ish stops of DR is hardly an obsession in IQ. Isn't the goal to get more DR, more bitrate, more color information? I, believe, @TomTheDP 's point in this post is that a group of part time coders were able to unlock, and write, a fairly stable firmware which opened a zeitgeist of cinema settings and 14bit raw video on a prosumer camera, so surely official firmware from one of the manufacturers could easily match their efforts from 11 years ago 12bit video can display up to 68 billion shades of color, 14bit can display up to 4 trillion. Surely, those numbers will be closer when the image goes through the pipeline to an eventual rec709 delivery, but to say it will have zero effect on the final image just isn't true. If it doesn't matter to you... cool! It doesn't mean it isn't important to someone else. That said, I agree that story is king. But as you suggested, any aspect that supports the story and the director's vision is a worthy goal.

To be honest, probably 90-95% of the people on this forum should not shoot with the 5D3 and ML Raw. It obviously causes a strange behavior and response. There are so many other cameras out there that are probably more practical. For most people on the forum, I would suggest a camcorder. The experience will be much more enjoyable and the results will look beautiful on YouTube. You can even add a LUT and you'll have instant cinema. Turn the camera sideways, press record and you'll be the envy of TikTok.

I may have shared these frames before somewhere on the forum, but I'm in the middle of finishing this short film all shot with the 5D III, using a nightly build in 1080p and with a Canon FD 50mm 1.2 L lens I had modified by Simmod so it will work with EF mount...

The workflow is so simple now. MLV App is straightforward for correction and "CST" and you can export to ProRes so you can edit in any program you want. Or you can use MLVFs and open up the files right in Resolve as if they were any other video file from any other camera. Btw, I loved your B&W short film. I watched it on Christmas morning and it brought a smile to my face. I've been meaning to comment on it, but now I'm so far removed, I'd like to watch it again. The mouse was a whacko, cool idea that was done so well and made me think of the old Bass and Rankin Christmas cartoons.

Yeah, the 5D Mark III. Haha. I haven't checked the used prices, but I assume you can find one in great condition for around 1000 USD... maybe more, maybe less. I bought mine new, 5-6 years ago for around $2000. Now if you're referring to a new camera you can buy today that will look similar... I don't know. The Sigma FP has a nice image downscaled to 1080p and its full frame, but not 14bit. The R5 and R5C both have nice images, but I've never used them. I guess it depends on your needs.

No that was 5D Mark III with 1080p ML Raw.

I found too many issues with the experimental builds as well. I know you have to shoot 2:35 to shoot the 3.5K but, as you said, there's a crop and the Live View is wonky. The compressed 14bit 1080p raw files are good and doubles your storage but I found they too will freeze once in a while. I think there have been some advances since I tried it a couple years ago, but there seems to be more interest in the eos-m now. The stable 1080p 14bit MLV Raw files from the Nightly Builds are the camera's strong suit and all I shoot with it. It truly has a special image. If you can't see the difference between iPhone footage and raw video... then God bless you and roll with that iPhone. You'll be much happier. As far as lack of good, quality videos from the 5D3 ML Raw... I don't know... maybe you're not looking hard enough because there are a ton out there. But yes, it is a hack, and it became really popular 10 years ago when they figured it out but it was still very buggy at the time so a lot of people that tried it didn't want to deal with the storage or any other issue that arose so you see a lot of short test videos. The 1080p is completely stable now and works like any other camera does except for playback... which I don't really use anyway. This camera is for low budget filmmaking and personal projects. I don't think it would/could ever replace a dedicated cinema camera or mirrorless or even phone if you don't want to put the time into it. With all that said, a filmmaker named Pete Ohs has made a couple films using it and his recent release, Jethica, was shot on it, it premiered at SXSW and it received a theatrical release...

@TomTheDP I assume you mean an external monitor? If so, then I'm not sure, I've never used one with it. I know you need to use a different firmware for it... I think Canon 1.23 and then the coinciding ML Firmware. The LCD works fine for me. I use the Raw Histogram with Over Exposure Warning to judge exposure... it works good enough for my needs.

Not only can I notice the lower bit depth, I'm fairly certain there is some type of noise reduction occurring behind the scenes with the FP. The extra resolution from the FP is nice but I feel like it resembles a lot of other camera's images from compressed codecs with just more leeway in post to make some changes. The 5D3, on the other hand, has a higher end look in my opinion and the image is more malleable especially in the highlights, but the shadow detail is much cleaner with the FP. They also share a similar post workflow for me... bring the footage into Resolve, correct/grade, export as ProRes and import into FCPX for the final edit/grade. At first glance, the bump in resolution may make you feel like the FP has a superior image, but once you get into the files... let's just say that if I had to choose one, I'd sell the FP and keep the 5D3. With that said, I think people underestimate the benefits of 14bit color. In some ways, it gives a perceived bump in DR because it is capturing the minute differences in hues. I notice it in skies and in tree bark. I'm also a fan of shooting with DSLRs... especially chunky, full frame ones. If I could afford a 1DX iii, I'm sure I would love it.

Other than a quick test of an early eos-m ml build, the 50D was my first real foray into Magic Lantern Raw and the image was amazing. It was the first time I was getting an image I was pleased with after putzing around with cameras for a couple years. That said, the 50D has a ton of limitations which include overheating, the LiveView freezing at will. Usually the fix was as simple as shutting down the camera and ejecting the battery, but it became a major pain. Also the lack of audio made the camera kinda unusable for any real production because you kinda need a scratch track, at least, to synch audio from an external recorder. So, if you just want to mess around with ML Raw, then yes for the price, it's a great camera and an amazing feat since Canon's original firmware didn't even offer video. But if you want to shoot with ML Raw and have zero issues, the 5D3 is king. The 5D2 is also nice with a slightly different color science than the Mark III and also not too expensive. Beware though, if you're anything like me, and you get a 50D, you'll be selling everything else and saving up for a 5D3 very soon.

High bitrate h.265 combined with the high dynamic range of sLog3 does sound like a winning combo. I took the FP out for another spin yesterday, and I really do like the footage. It handles very similarly to ML Raw while also losing a step in my post process. Even a few years after its release, with the help of Sigma's continued devotion to FW updates, I think it's one of the best buys out there right now, regardless of its limitations. But again, it is very similar to working with 5D3 files, minus some detail that the 14bit ML files offer and the pure, unencumbered joy of shooting with the 5D3... so I'm still on the fence. I still prefer RAW to any other compressed codec. It really helps to fix both my mistakes and the inherent obstacles of perfect shooting conditions with run & gun/guerilla filmmaking. I've submitted to the idea that it's going to take a lot of storage space and a longer post-workflow getting the footage into FCPX. I'd love to see 5D3 ML Raw mixed into your test, pleas do that. If you do get a chance, I'd love to see some footage from the XH2 ProRes. There really isn't much online. Originally, I preferred the idea of the "s" model, but after more thinking, the XH2 offers a very unique feature set... plus I didn't realize that the XH2 also shoots internal ProRes... which is huge for me and would really delineate the purpose of a second camera.

@Andrew Reid Interesting test. A few moons ago, I briefly owned the a6500 shortly after I sold my first BMMCC, and I was surprised at how juicy the sLog3 files were. I felt they were the closest to raw video that I had seen. And when shot with the monochrome setting, in sLog3, the banding that plagued those 8bit sLog cameras seemed to disappear. So I'm not too surprised how well the A1 holds up against the competition. I recently bit the bullet and bought an FP. I've been having some fun shooting with it, but I also find it to be a miserable camera in some ways. Due to its size, I want the camera to stay small and stealthy, but I think that was the design flaw with the camera. If Sigma had just made the camera a bit bigger and allowed for internal 12bit, 4K raw, I never would have missed the smaller size and the overall experience would have been better. Like your disdain for external monitors, I despise external SSDs just as much, especially when only a select few have proven to work with the FP. That said, it's a really nice image and I am enjoying using my Minolta lenses with it. But at the end of the day, I don't know if it's much better than my 5D3. Sure it has higher resolution and doesn't need specific lenses to get a really sharp detailed look, but I believe the overall IQ from my 5D3 beats the FP and the cameras are a bit too similar in a lot of ways to keep both. With all of that said, I've noticed you mention the XH2 recently and am very intrigued. I'd be curious to see how the ProRes holds up in this test if you have the time or inclination. I've only recently gotten my FP rigged up to where I feel comfortable using it, so I want to test it a bit more... maybe with a short film or something, but unless something really clicks, I may have to look elsewhere for an upgrade. The XH2 is interesting, but so are some of the Canon offerings... R5, R5C and of course the R3 which I doubt I'll ever be able to afford. Thanks again for the test and I hope all is well with you and your family!!!

You know you can set the ae/lock button to one touch af on Panasonic bodies while in MF.

To be fair, I read this recently... "Panasonic cameras have cooties, but Canon cameras are anti-vax..."

You mean 8K 120p isn't industry standard? Don't tell the forum this, there could be a mutiny.

I saw a videographer shooting a trade show with a C100 yesterday. I didn't get close enough to see if it was a Mark 1 or Mark 2 but I assume it was the latter. It's still a moneymaker.

@Anaconda_ thanks for all of the tests! If you have the time and feel inclined, could you try taking a bunch of 30 second to 2 minute shots consecutively for about 20-30 minutes and see how it goes? I just don't understand why some people are having zero issues with these "custom" drives and I can't get one to work consistently.

Thanks for the info. I've used the custom setting and still had issues with NVME drives. I never shoot a shot longer than 2-3 minutes and most are less than a minute. But they are consecutive, with little time in between. As I said, some drives will work normally for a while, but then after 10-20 minutes of running and gunning a bunch of shots, the recording will just stop and then that will continue from that point on. Which internal drive are you using with the DPL? It seems the guy who shot the video you posted tested all of the DPL recommended drives and had the same issues I am having with these alternate drives. I figure I'll test a couple more and then maybe I'll try reflashing the newest firmware.... if that's possible.

Cool, I'm thinking of doing the same thing. I really like the 12bit 4K and shooting at 3200 ISO with my small collection of Minolta lenses. But a lot of its appeal is that it's a tiny camera that shoots FF Raw. These external drives are the antithesis of that. What internal SSD are you using with the DPL? And have you tried any kind of stress test with it? The issues I'm having with unofficial drives is that they're fine for about 10 minutes, then all of a sudden the recording stops... I assume due to buffering. If I switch over to a Sigma recommended drive, the camera works fine, so I don't think it's an overheating issue. I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep the camera, it's just finding the right setup for it. FD lenses are great on almost any camera. It helps that the adapters are also a little smaller as well. Very nice sample from the FP, but YouTube compression torments it. Which really gets you thinking... Sadly, in the comments, he mentions similar SSD issues with the DPL rack that I'm experiencing with unofficial drives. It seems these NVME drives work if you're casually using the camera during a trip, on a walk, or at a family event. But if you're firing off a lot of shots successively, or planning dialogue scenes... I don't know if they're a great solution. Damn.

Whose to say, that technique always worked with cheap mini-dv camcorders too. They were marketed as having a parfocal lens... or it was just a side effect of the tiny sensor... either way, it was a cool feature to nail focus.

Sorry for the late reply... Honestly, I haven't tested either enough to say with certainty, but I wasn't impressed at all with the 1080p raw. Without question ML Raw from my 5D3 is vastly superior. The only positive being is the higher frame rates from the FP, but I VERY rarely need slow motion. The 4K 8bit raw wasn't bad. It seemed like a really good compressed codec that you can bend a bit more with the raw settings. I'm having so many issues finding an SSD solution that I really wish I could just shoot internal 4K 8bit raw but the SD cards are just too damn expensive... 10 minutes of footage on a 128gb card is just too limiting and at $150 a pop... too expensive. With that said, I think the 4K 8bit could be useful for very specific projects... micro-short films where you may have a low shooting ratio... projects or sequences that may be finished in B&W or have a very basic analogue look... vintage S8/16mm type of thing. With the MC-21 adapter and a Canon IS lens, it could be a really interesting set-up. Thanks for this! I've been testing numerous drives from the recommended list and unofficial drives and I have yet to find an unofficial drive that works for any extended period of time with run and gun shooting. A few I've tested (Kingston) work for about 10-20 minutes of extensive shooting, but then will start acting up and stop recording after 5-10 seconds. I assume it's a buffering issue. The two recommended drives I have (Sandisk Extreme Pro & Samsung T5) seem to work without issue, but to be honest, I don't think I pushed them as hard as the unofficial drives because I just assumed they work. The internal Kingston NVME drive I have installed inside a SmallRig enclosure is actually an okay set-up... That said, the DPL seems damn near perfect, except for the price. I was regularly checking for a great price on an FP, but I needed a deal to make it worth it. For what I do, my 5D3 is more than enough for my needs. But I found an FP that was too good to pass up and I really like the IQ (and finally having a camera where I can use my Minolta lenses) but I still want/need to keep this camera set-up as stealthy and CHEAP as possible. I guess I try one of those Sabrent drives. I tested the Rocket Nano drive and it didn't work at all. Thank God for liberal return policies. Do you know which version of the Sabrent NVME you are using? Is it the Blue or Brown Rocket?

The C200B is on sale at B&H right now. I think it's $2400.