mercer

Well Sony, Panasonic and Samsung were early adopters because they needed consumers to create content to watch on the 4K TVs they wanted to sell. Nikon, Olympus and Fuji followed suit because Sony, Panasonic and Samsung convinced content creators and consumers they needed to shoot Billy Jr's baseball game in 4K. Or should I say are now starting to convince consumers of that. Canon will flip the switch when their market research shows they are losing a lot of sales to the other manufacturers.

The problem with this argument is that it comes from a child's perspective. 20 years ago me and my friends didn't buy real cameras either, we bought disposables. Children never buy high ticket items and manufacturers don't cater to them for that reason. In 10 to 20 years when they stop going to the bars and start having children and hobbies, then they buy cameras. Sure the low end consumer camera market will never be what it once was but it hasn't been that for years and most of the companies have already adjusted for it. I'm sure I sound like a dinosaur but don't underestimate the amount of money a middle class man will spend on a hobby as they grow and accustomed to adulthood.

I highly doubt Canon has a huge attitude about how photographers should shoot or what tech they need... they have a board that they answer to and they are beholden to their shareholders. Through market research and profit margins they've come to the conclusion they don't have to include such features to make profits. It's really that simple. If the lack of video features begin to disrupt their profit margin, they will start including them. The End.

I think there must be something wrong with my eyes because I still kinda like the soft, organic look of Canon 1080p. I think the 1DC has the best 4K image around, specifically at its price point or lower, and I think the 1080p out of a hacked GH2 looks better than any of the new Panny 4K. Sorry I keep going on about this, but I am utterly surprised and I can't understand why hacked GH2 video looks better and more organic, to me, than the 4K from the GH5. Obviously the GH5 has more resolution, is sharper, has way better features, but there's gotta be a technical reason the GH2 videos look so filmic and more organic to my eyes?

Interesting, your footage lately has really looked like you are trying some new things and as usual it looks great. I know it's not your thing, but I'd love to see you shoot a narrative. We could use a modern Mean Streets shot guerilla style on the streets of NYC. I only shoot horror/thriller/suspense/mystery stories so I've really been experimenting with using my midtones to add my contrast. I'll raise my blacks to like 10 ire and then drop my mids to bring in the contrast and deeper color tones. But as we all know, there isn't a paint by numbers way of doing this. If you need to see into the shadows a little bit and you want them clean, with certain cameras, you have to overexpose slightly. Each shot is different but I think it's safe to say that with most of these cameras, the sweet spot is between -1 and +1 and the closest you can stay to +/-0 on your meter is the best bet. In my opinion. And if one can see some dynamic range in the shot while you're filming, then that will probably be the best you're gonna get, or the most you can expect. There's a reason why Hollywood films use lights and flags with an Alexa... and that has what... almost 16 stops of DR. Okay that makes sense now. The scene with the state trooper, in the last episode, looks insane. I have been really into B&W lately, planning a film in the Fall/Winter.

Yup I learned it the hard way. I wasted about 8 months of my life with the NX500 and G7 shooting everything ETTR. I stopped using zebras altogether... Well, I am shooting ML Raw now, so obviously I ETTR. But with other cameras I'll use the meter as a guideline, but my eyes are more important. Once in a while I'll throw them on to see if I blew out an important highlight but my eyes can usually see if I did. I hate color checkers too. I have also stopped doing pointless tests. If I want to test something, it is going to be something I can possibly use. I actually have a small short planned for late summer where I am going to test how close to the middle I can shoot ML Raw. I know it goes against the grain, but I have seen some amazing 5D3 footage that wasn't ETTRd. I assume I'll lose some DR, but I think in the end it could be easier to get a more uniform correction and better skin tones. But I will say with sLog you do need to expose to the right or you will have a hot mess going on.

If you can make money with an 80D, then I'd say definitely get that. It wins with photography and AF and it really has a decent all-i 1080p. Post work will be quick and easy. And you can get a Refurbished one from Canon for a great price these days.

Yeah she is a work of art. Good actress too.

I didn't think I could afford one either, but after selling a few things plus a credit from BH, I asked myself... why do I keep testing all of these cameras? I didn't have a good answer but I knew I liked the image I saw from the 5D3 better than anything I have seen from any 4K camera on the market I could afford. I figured, if my movie is gonna suck, it may as well suck on Canon Raw.

Man it was difficult finding some examples and these are the closest I could come across. It's crazy the amount of looks that they used this season. Honestly, you're a better colorist than me, so you'd probably know better if it is obtainable with a GH5. I think @AaronChicago made a LUT for the GH5 emulating one of the various looks from this season of Fargo, so he'd probably know better than me. Are you thinking of taking the GH5 plunge? Now I just like this shot and color...

Go vintage. There is very little so satisfying than using a lens from the 1970s or 80s with 5-axis IBIS. To be able to go handheld and focus with your left hand on lenses built for manual focus with smooth focus rings is just a joy with that camera. Plus you can find such bargains on old Nikon lenses, or Minolta MDs, or Pentax or Takumars, or Russian lenses. They force you to take your time with composition while setting up your shot and they help to take away that digital look inherent in modern digital cameras.

I remember after Technicolor released CineStyle, for Canon cameras, there was an onslaught of SOOC Flat "cinematic" videos posted on YouTube... I wondered if any of these people ever watched a movie. But has anybody watched this season of Fargo? The last couple episodes they did a beautifully desaturated look in the exteriors. I swear it was almost black and white but with color skin tones. It looked so cool.

Yup, Panny doesn't have the body only either. I think the mid range camera you're hoping for will be the one they're rumored to announce in August. If I get my high bitrate all-i, 1080p, I may reconsider my plan. But it seems they are keeping that for their GH and FZ lines. @jonpais

I don't know, I think with your discovery, the GX85 is the camera to get, but the little extra features are worth it for the G85. I'm so bored with most new cameras I've tried since going the 5D3 route that I am looking to the past for my future cameras. I think I see a 1DC in my future. But that's neither here nor there for this thread. For the money, the Panny GX85 or G85 is great for 4K and other features. If you don't need 4K, I still love the HD image out of the D5500/D5600. I would love to see more talented people than myself have a stab at it. But for the money, I think the a6500 has the best 4K around and respectable 5-axis.

What bothers me the most is why do I have to spend a thousand dollars for a Panasonic and I can't even reheat my burrito with it... why do they always hold back features?

Emmanuel I am dead serious. The best videos I have seen from the GH5 are from members of this forum. I've also seen a bunch of 10bit VLog footage that I believe could easily be accomplished with a G85 and a CineLike Profile. I had a G7 for a while and I loved it and I want all camera companies to make great cameras for us, but I just don't see all of this great footage from the GH5 that I expected to see. Even Andrew said a few weeks ago that he doesn't love the camera that much and finds himself picking up the Olympus more often. However, I commend Panasonic for releasing such a groundbreaking camera and it is easily the camera of the year... maybe next year too and hopefully it will force Canon and other companies to start taking video seriously as they develop future cameras. I truly think this 6D Mark II may get the backlash Canon needs to start some forward thinking when it comes to video. Hopefully the FF mirrorless will have the features we want. But as is, if money isn't an issue, which for me $2000 is an issue, but if it wasn't, I would rather raise the extra money and get a 1DC or save money and just get a G85. I am hoping the Summer FW update will give the GH5 that extra bit I'm craving because I really love the 200mbps all-i 1080p I used with the FZ2500... at 10bit up to 60p... it should be great. But in all honesty, why can't I get the high bitrate 1080p in the G85. Canon constantly gets bashed for withholding features but every single other company does the exact same thing... granted not to the same extent.

Anyone have experience with the ZF Zeiss lenses? And is the ZF.2 50mm that much better than the original?

Man, I have got to watch that film one of these days. It looks great and your shorts are probably the ones I look most forward to on this site. Of course, I think I liked the image you got out of that Nikon the best. You'd be dangerous with a 5D3 and ML Raw.

I don't know are they really? I have seen maybe a dozen videos from the GH5 that look like they couldn't be shot with the G85. Your GH2 videos are better, or as good, as the best GH5 videos around. And let's be honest here... the ONLY reason Panasonic added 10bit to the GH5 is so they could add a LOG Profile that didn't have banding and magenta issues... they didn't give it to us just to be kind or to be ahead of the technical curve. If they did, the new EVA would have 10bit 60p in 4K or better than the 400mbps codec they're offering Now, I don't disagree about the 6D ii being bullshit but is it really a surprise? The problem is there are no great $2000 cameras. $2000 for a micro 4/3 camera is kinda ridiculous. As much as I want an e-m1mkii, I could never pay that kind of money for a Micro 4/3 camera. I made that mistake last year with the XC10 and it's one inch sensor. So, what else is there? A Sony that will overheat? What good are all these features if you can only shoot reliably with them in 30 degrees or less? I think we should continue to call Canon out on this bullshit but at least when they offer a feature... it works.

@cantsin okay thanks, I thought with the crop alone it may work, didn't know it needed the flange distance. I wasn't talking about Raw on the newer EOS-M models, just the 3X crop mode. I'm pretty sure the M2 was released from Canon with the crop just like the t3i and the 80D were. In fact with the original EOS-M, you can use ML to turn on the crop and then it stays on if you return to the original Canon firmware. ML just made the crop accessible but it was there all along to be turned on, Canon just chose not to. I shot some 3X crop with the factory firmware last year with the Cosmicar 12-75mm f/1.8 lens and I think it looked better than the original Canon factory eos-m footage. I was hoping that some of the later models, that have focus peaking, might have the crop as well. I'll check when I get home from work. Thanks for the 720p heads up... didn't know that.

Haha, I was thinking about buying an A7ii. I am so yesterday with this stuff. I am holding out for the Canon FF mirrorless but may buy a D7500 in the fall for the right price as an interim. If the FF Canon mirrorless doesn't occur or isn't up to spec, I will probably sell the D7500 and put that money go back in time again and buy a 1DC. By next spring, they should be selling for around $2500 on the used market. And to be honest, 4 years later I don't think there's a better 4K image in that price range.

@cantsin aren't there d-mount to c-mount adapters floating around? Also there's a Russian Super 8 camera that comes with a c-mount lens... unsure if it will focus to infinity like the ones you've tested though. I have it in storage, I'll give it a test one of these days. Does anyone know if any of the subsequent eos-m models have the digital crop? I think M2 has it, but it doesn't have focus peaking. I would actually enjoy using c-mounts with original Canon firmware and focus peaking... Downscaling to 720p should look pretty organic... not as good as Raw but at least you could have audio without the camera freezing on the second take.

Will that look better downscaled to 720p or upscaled to 1080p? I've always liked the idea of 720p Raw. Any word if the 10bit variant cures the pink dot issue? I'll have to pull mine out from the depths of my gear closet and give this a test one of these days. I have a bunch of c-mounts just dying to get used.

Well aren't still photographers more interested in burst speed, focus speed, weather sealing, articulated screen and ISO performance, etc...? The 6D Mark ii is a big improvement over the 6D with lots of upgrades just not for video. Of course I think it's ridiculous that in 2017 Canon is releasing a $2000 camera body that doesn't have 4K, but shrug... that's Canon. In a lot of ways it really pisses me off because after using the 5D3 for the past two months, and witnessing the build quality and design of the controls, I was really hoping the 6D was going to be the 4K camera I am looking for... unfortunately it will not be. Hopefully, the rumored FF mirrorless will be released by year's end and it will be priced for less than the 5D4. If not, I am going to just save up for a 1DC because in all honesty, I have not seen a more cinematic 4K image from any other manufacturer that looks as good. However, I am interested to see if the 5D4 has the same mojo as the 1DC once it gets Canon LOG, because I would love DPAF.

Honestly without the all-i MOV files, none of these cameras are a mini 80D. The M series wins for size, lens adaptability and focus peaking. With DPAF, there isn't as much need for focus peaking but it's definitely nice to have when you want to use a vintage lens.