mercer

I could deal with a 2.34x crop, the NX500 was 2.5x+ It was annoying, but it was definitely usable. Also that kind of crop would open up some fast c-mount options on the M5. But again, I agree it would be highly unlikely. But then again, until it is announced, the hope is alive... I would love to see them implement the 5-axis IS used in the xc10... hands down the best 5-axis I have used... of course I have only used one other... the GX85, but the Canon is like using an actual steadicam (almost)

I thought the DCI crop for the mkiv is 1.64-1.75 (arguably) but yeah you're probably right, 4K is highly unlikely. I just wouldn't be surprised by anything with Canon. It is curious that they're skipping the eos-m4 moniker and going to the m5, though. It's also curious that they are announcing the m5 at Photokina and not the highly rumored full frame mirrorless that they're supposed to be releasing by year's end... unless they're one in the same.

Here's another from the XC10. This screengrab is from a clip that originated in 4K. The first is ungraded Canon Log... And here is with Andrew's Cine 3 LUT...

I purchased the profile and the LUTS. I haven't had a chance to load them onto a camera yet, but I did test the LUTS on Canon LOG 1080p footage from my XC10. They work pretty well. Cine 3 is definitely my favorite so far. Ungraded Canon LOG from XC10... XC10 with Cine 3 LUT, no other adjustment... Now I need to do a test with a Canon DSLR to see if I can match the look of the XC10 Canon LOG with the EOSHD C-LOG. If so, this opens up a couple opportunities for a 2 camera set up. The XC10 for general shots... the meat and potatoes of a shoot, and a DSLR for any close up requiring shallow depth.

Yeah, I guess rotational could mean roll, pitch and yaw. But with the e-stabilizer definition, they explicitly state, "Jitter during motion picture recording is corrected along the vertical, horizontal, roll, pitch, and yaw axes by making use of the In-Lens Image Stabilizer, In-Body Image Stabilizer, and Electronic Image Stabilizer. (5-Axis Hybrid Image Stabilizer)" It's obviously a poorly written manual, and if "normal" IBIS worked as well as e-stabilizer, I would chalk it up to that. But since it does not, that is why I am questioning it. Do you have an ois lens? I don't have one, but that would be the way to test it. If Dual IS works better than Normal, but the same as normal with e-stabilizer, then I would suspect that the normal ibis is not true 5-Axis. That was going to be my next comment. In the end it doesn't matter. As long as everybody is happy with their settings, then who really cares, I just wish Panasonic was a little more clear with their instructional and marketing materials.

Perhaps, but if "Normal" is 5-Axis, then I am not very pleased with it. I like the e-stabilizer, but does that in fact pose issues with artifacts? Hmm. I honestly bought the camera because of the 5-Axis IBIS, without the mic it still seemed to make sense. I think a lot of the videos, I have seen online that impressed me, the videographer was probably using e-stabilization.

I spent a few minutes looking at some videos online, and I am really impressed with the 80d. Some of the videos I saw looked as good as Panasonic 4k downscaled to 1080. I am kind of in a weird place with cameras. I have two Canons... an XC10 and a 50D and one Panasonic... the GX85. I have only one native m4/3 lens... the Sigma 30mm f/2.8 and no native EF lenses. Although I really enjoy using the IBIS with the GX85, it would seem maybe a 3rd Canon to complement my XC10 may make more sense. I am also in a transitional lens phase where I am starting to swap out a lot of my manual, vintage lenses for a smaller, better overall collection. I have been looking at the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 for Canon and some of the videos I have seen from that lens with the 80D look beautiful. Do you know how well the DPAF works with 3rd Party lenses?

Yeah, it's definitely functioning. I just messed with it for a while with different lenses, it seems better now than with my quick test yesterday, but nowhere near as good as with e-stabilization on. With normal stabilization, I have to really concentrate on staying steady. With e-stabilizer, I can just shoot. I also can confirm that it seems to definitely handle pitch and yaw better with e-stabilizer on. I really think there is something strange with how they are describing the 5-Axis IBIS. From the picture you posted, it clearly shows that there is 5-axis IBIS in the body, but it is also a graphic just demonstrating Dual-IS. In fact, I have yet to find any information from Panasonic that mentions 5-Axis without mentioning Dual-IS in the same sentence or graphic. I understand Panasonic manuals can be confusing, but in this instance, it is clearly stated that 5-Axis, in movie mode, is obtained through e-stabilization and the symbol for normal IBIS clearly defines it as only being 3-Axis of stabilization. Something is suspect here.

I did as well, with eos-m the c-mounts were a joy to use. It was also pretty cool because, even if you reverted back to Canon mode after using ML, the 3x crop option stayed. I assume with the 80d, the 3x crop is... 1.6x + 3x = 4.6x crop? It makes sense with the eos-m because you can use c-mounts, not so much with the 80D, the 10-18mm becomes a slow normal to small telephoto. I guess with one of the Rokinon fisheye lenses it would be a normal lens, but still pretty slow.

The life vest was very witty.

I've only tried "Normal" IBIS with the Nikkor 28mm and I couldn't keep the thing still. With e-stabilization in 5-Axis Hybrid mode, it floats.

Idk, the m5 could have a lower bitrate mjpeg 4K. The m3 is the first Canon non-Cinema or camcorder to have focus peaking, so I wouldn't be surprised at all. Since Canon is about product segmentation, the mirrorless division has a different competitor base than their DSLR arm. With DSLRs, their major competition is Nikon who also just released 4K in their flagship models. With Mirrorless, their biggest competitors are Sony and Panasonic that have 4K capable cameras on similarly priced cameras. Just saying I will not be surprised if it does have it. Either way, as you said, it should have 60p and DPAF, which will probably get me to buy one to complement the 1080p from my XC10. If it doesn't have those two features, I may get the 80d for the same reason.

Yeah, I don't know. I think there is some form of 5-axis in the body for dual is in photo mode or with an ois lens, but I have my suspicions that it doesn't translate the same way in movie mode and Panasonic is using creative and confusing language to sell 5-axis ibis in 4K if..., ..., ... I will say this though, unfortunately, Hybrid 5-axis works way better than just Normal ibis. It's like night and day, so if Normal IS is 5-axis ibis in video mode (I have my doubts) then their implementation of 5-axis ibis is not very good at all.

No you're fine, I was more worried about my tone. Take a look at this graphic, it shows Sony's system but I think it's relevant to this discussion... In their system the lens' ois provides the pitch and yaw, as it does with Panasonic Dual-IS. But if you take the lens out of the equation, you lose pitch and yaw, the e-stabilizer gives you back pitch and yaw. Again I may be wrong here, because I have read conflicting statements all over the place about this, but the manual, when you add up the confusion, I think I might be right. The question is, if I am, does the e-stabilizer degrade the IQ by leaving artifacts, or is the crop the only disadvantage?

Honestly, I don't want to argue about this. I was wrong about what the symbols mean. After looking at the next page of the manual it is clear that the hand in the center of (( )) symbol is the symbol for normal body stabilizer which is indeed 3-Axis, up/down = 1 Axis, left/right = 2 Axis and roll = 3-axis. With e-stabilization you get pitch and yaw which completes your 5-axis.

Go back to the chart, under non-ois lenses for photo mode, they show two graphics, the second one shows an up and down arrow symbol that is for 5-Axis ibis, but it is for photo only. To get 5-Axis ibis in video you need the hybrid version which requires e-stabilization + the 3-Axis in body which is the symbol of the hand within the (( )). Again maybe I am wrong but I don't think so. Either way it doesn't matter, if you are happy with (( )) stabilization then that's all that is important. I noticed a lot of jitters without the e-stabilization.

Personally, I think Panasonic isn't being forthcoming about exactly how you get the 5-Axis. To me it seems like Duall IS is 5-Axis - 2 from the lens and 3 from the body + e-stabilizer for that extra goodness. But for non ois lenses you need the e-stabilizer to get the full 5-axis, otherwise you are only getting 3 from the body. I think the confusion lies within how they explain dual is.

When you have just the body stabilization on, do you have the symbol, on your display, of the square with the hand in the center, and 4 arrows? Because I only get that symbol when I use body stabilization + e-stabilizer.

How is DPAF with 3rd party lenses?

That was too easy...? Honestly though, on my GX85, I can't even get the symbol for 5-Axis to show up on the screen without activating E-Stabilizer. There is no option for it in under the Photo or Video menus. This is with a Nikkor ai-s 28mm. Maybe the GX80 is different?

I don't mean to be a contrarian here, but I think you are setting the in body 5-Axis to "on" for photos only and you aren't getting the full 5-Axis in movie mode. If you look at the chart and asterisk, the language is pretty plain... E-stabilization needs to be activated for non-ois lenses in movie mode. But I could be wrong. I don't have my cam near me right now.

Really?! Shit, I have to check my settings, but I think I have been using E-stabilization all this time and I have been pretty blown away by the IQ. I can only imagine how nice it looks without it. Then which stabilization setting do you activate to get the 5-Axis on manual lenses?

Yeah, I think for non-ois, non-m4/3rd lenses, e-stabilization needs to be activated to get 5-Axis IBIS... Correct?

Thanks a lot, Pedro. I have the m1, and an XC10. The M3 had a few extras (focus peaking, IS, tilting screen) so it could be a great complement to the Canon Log in the XC10 if Andrew's profile matches well. Of course, the eos-m5 is supposed to be announced sometime next week, so I would hold off to see what the new model offers... DPAF, 60p and hopefully 4K... but doubtful.

Andrew, if your profile works with the M3, do you think your C-log would be a good match up with the 1080p Canon Log from the XC10 to add some shallow depth of field close ups?