mercer

Haha, no I’m not waiting for that but I could see how you might think it by my post. My point was I don’t need 4K Raw right now. So even though 1080p Raw would be a crop of the sensor by nature, since I don’t need or want 4K Raw right now, then the inherent crop is a negative of the camera for me. Although I may be interested in 4K Raw with B-Raw... if implemented.

I would assume from the nature of his posts, he may have a project he’s working on that is a micro-budget or less and he wants to swing for the fences. I work with a small group of friends that are also filmmakers and at least one of those friends wants to follow the Netflix guidelines as close as possible even though we work with zero budgets... meaning filmmaking is not our full time jobs and we self fund our projects. I’ve decided to shoot with ML Raw and they are going 4K.

Well I think there is a notion that if you are planning a spec project that you’d like to eventually sell to Netflix, that you may have a leg up if you follow the guidelines that Netflix uses for their original content. With the GH5, and possibly the P4K, being readily available at near consumer prices, it isn’t necessarily a bad idea to use one of those cameras, but in the end, the quality of the spec film will trump the camera and codec it was shot with.

Yup. I’m still keeping the P4K as a possible option for me in the next 6 months or so. But I have no interest in being an early adopter. And I’m unsure if I am going to get one at all. As I’ve said, the 1080p Raw crop is really bugging me. So for me, I need to know how the footage looks when more units are in the wild, what growing pains the early units have, if B-Raw is going to be implemented, and finally ML’s progress with the 5D4. Needless to say, I don’t need a new camera right now and I am a few projects away (6 months to a year) before I would use the camera for a film. So hopefully all of my questions will be answered by then.

I would argue the issue is with the electronic/camera companies pushing tech that align with their television sales. Unless you are an SFX firm, I see absolutely no reason why any camera company would be pushing for 8K. I honestly don’t see why a television manufacturer would either.

Well I already have EF lenses. And when I wrote that, I thought the Ursa Mini 4K had an SD slot because supposedly they are getting the 4K 12:1 Raw to work with SD cards used with the BMPCC... which is huge for the P4K but the Mini 4K does not have an SD slot and instead uses CFast cards which are considerably cheaper than CFast2 cards... so that’s not horrible. But you are right, the prices could rise on the used market. There are also some theories that the processor in the Micro may be able to handle B-Raw... which would be great if implemented. According to members on bmcuser, B-Raw has improved FPN issues on the UMP, so it may help with the UM4K as well if implemented. Along with Gen 4 color they are also claiming a better noise floor and more organic noise overall.

I just read the entire thread on B-Raw on bmcuser. According to some of the posters over there, it should be in the P4K as Grant said they are working on it, but it seems it will be down the road... whatever that means. They also are under the impression that the entire Ursa Mini line will get it before the P4K. If the Mini 4K gets B-Raw, I may have to pull the trigger on a used one. I really like the image out of that camera without B-Raw, with it... it becomes one of the cheapest S35mm Raw cinema cameras on the market at $2000 used.

@Jonesy Jones don’t you have an Ursa? It does look really good, I wouldn’t say it’s my favorite, but it’s up there. The Alexa is still untouched in my opinion.

Well obviously I missed that part... ah doy

Crap, for some reason I thought that video was going to be Ursa footage. When I saw Fujifilm X at the end of the video, my jaw dropped.

@Sage can you post another link to the manual? I know it is somewhere in this thread but I can’t read through the entire thing again and I don’t see it on your website. Kern’s are Swiss, but as a general rule anything over 25mm SHOULD cover the sensor. It gets a little more complicated when you try TV lenses, then you need to look for ones that are for 1” sensors. With the G7 and GX85 I was able to get full coverage with 12.5mm Fujinon and Canon 1” TV lenses but those cameras had a slight 4K crop.

They probably will but a little skepticism isn’t the worse thing in the world. I believe I am buying a camera based on the definitive given specs, if I get anything more out of it, then great, if not then I knew what I was buying... which was an issue with the Micro when it was released with the lack of global shutter that was promised at announcement.

And this is exactly what I find ridiculous about what the “dslr revolution” turned into. I am fairly certain that the owner of that rig could have just gone out and bought an FS5, an Ursa Pro, an EVA1 or a C200 and saved some money and pride. When I had the Micro, I hated myself for rigging it up this much...

Nah, what they may have done is forced Apple to go a step further with ProRes Raw but I doubt Apple will abandon one of their products because a small company in Australia made a competing product.

Well, there were a few instances in the past that BM said a camera was getting an upgrade or a spec was going to be included that never panned out so although I believe they are trying, I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t happen. As far as what is available to other manufacturers, all I’ve heard is that the SDK is free for post workflows and an insinuation that other camera manufacturers can include BRaw in their cameras but I’m assuming there will be a licensing fee for those companies.

I hope so.

For sure it will be free? Because I’m not so sure. At a certain point we need to question what BM’s end game is here. This idea that they are for the little guy doesn’t pay their bills. Somebody posted that Olympus loses $150 for every camera they sell in the US... well at BM prices, how much are they losing? Is this just a way to get the user to an upgrade path? Are they only making a little per unit, so they are relying on quantity sold to make their profit? Are they going to release a better Resolve next NAB that makes the studio version antiquated? In the end, it doesn’t matter much because the price of the P4K is still unbelievable and is the best deal on the market, but I think there may be some assumptions floating around. Good news is that the investment isn’t that large and BM doesn’t really drop the price of their cameras, so the resale value should hold up pretty well if the tool isn’t for you.

Well IF BRaw gets implemented in the P4K, I believe he said they are working on it, do we know for sure it will be a free update?

Are they shipping next week, good news. I’m looking forward to see what camera nerds can do with the camera. Also, I hope when/if the P4K gets BRaw, that it has the 1080p variants like the Ursa Pro has and that it isn’t cropped.

Raw is unnecessary for 95% of the people on here... as is ProRes really. IBIS is definitely a more relevant feature for a videographer. With that being said, I’d love for one of the major manufacturers to license ProResLT, I just watched a few videos online from the Ursa Mini 4K, since it can be had for about the same price as a kitted P4K, and the ProResLT videos looked amazing... for web consumption at least. Since ProRes is less processor intensive than an h.264 codec, it would have been a great move for Canon if they are indeed having heat dissipation issues. To add, I am very intrigued with the Z6 and the 10bit external. I’m probably going to pick up a BMVA this Fall, for a project, does the Z6 output 10bit 1080 as well, or is it just 4K?

@Jimmy those car shots look unbelievable. This is some of the first consumer 4K that looks organic to me. I cannot believe a lot of those shots were Eterna ungraded. With every passing month, my hybrid choices just keep getting cluttered with more options... definitely a good place to be, though. Man I hope they release an X-H2 soon, because these features even with moderately good IBIS will be unbelievable.

Is their codec going to be 800mbps all-i? If Panasonic is really going to go all in with 8K FF, they could be the next company out of the camera business. IMO.

I thought I read that there is a strong rumor suggesting 16mm flange distance and a 2x crop mode, so in M4/3 crop mode, with an adapter, m4/3 lenses will work. Not a bad idea to keep existing customers that may be interested in moving to FF. Unless there is some type of internal/external Raw or internal ProRes, I don’t really see the point of a FF Panasonic. It seems like they’re grasping at straws here... especially if it doesn’t have IBIS.

The comments section was as interesting as the article.

@KnightsFan I doubt ML will implement BMRaw in camera but it may be possible for some of the post apps to convert to it. But I don’t know about this “encoder” how were they able to implement BMRaw into the Ursa Mini Pro?