Fredrik Lyhne

I tend to underexpose to much at times and that's is something I really need to get better at. It's different but the same as overexposing and very hard to make it look good in post. Your videos look very nice and the exposure is very consistent so I wouldn't worry about cc and grading. I only had to do very slight correction on it which to me means you're doing things very right. I think your documentary/filmic style works very well for your videos. Grading looks however is off course a whole nother chapter.

I think @jase made a very nice video with that lens.

Here's the graded shot of the new shot which I would say is a normal exposure. With this shot and the one "ETTR"? from yesterday I had to lower the midtones, but on this shot I could also raise the highlights slightly without loosing to much detail on the shirt. I would say it's a very good exposure for skin tones, but the shirt is loosing some detail, so I think 1/3 stop less would be perfect. On the ETTR I had to lower the midtones, but can't raise the highlights more and lowering them doesn't help with the skin tones or the shirt. On the -2/3 I had to raise the highlights and because the skin tones and shirt was not overexposed it didn't affect the image in bad way. I still think this was the best overall exposure of the bunch, but the new shot from today is also good. To match the brightness of the ETTR and -2/3 I raised the highlights even more from +5 to +10 and even though it seemed to clip the red channel slightly it still look better then the other shots I think. @jagnje we're just trying to find the best exposure settings as these cameras can go from good to great if you nail the exposure. And looking at these test I would say it's worth the time and effort we put into it I understand that ETTR is the way do to it with many cameras, but these cameras seems to perform best when they are slightly underexposed.

Haha, glad we're finally on the same page! Your test's have been very helpful and this really shows that one should pay more attention to exposure. Paul's histogram is indeed very misleading and I think it's just a case of an expert trying to explain something to non-experts but forget that they are not experts! The shots I graded are ETTR and -2/3 but I didn't try -1/3, maybe that one will work too? I find it a bit strange that your shirt was overexposed beyond repair when you followed Paul's advice with 100% zebras. Did you try to grade the different shots to see which was easiest for you? But you are right about the noise Jon, it's less noise in the shadows when done right, but unlike raw theres only a very small window where color, noise and highlights are perfect.

I'm really trying but there is no way I can fix that ETTR shot, especially the shirt. Could be my grading skills though...

Doesn't look like ETTR on the histogram either and it sure looks a lot different from Noam Kroll's ETTR. https://www.provideocoalition.com/use-ettr-technique-maximize-dynamic-range/ I believe when Paul Leeming used the term ETTR to explain how to use his LUT he should have explained that this is really ETTR light version or something. I took the shot off Paul holding the color checker and checked the histogram in Lightroom and it's very different from the one in his picture. Looks like he just used a another histogram to make his point, and this can be a little confusing when you're trying to match Paul's histogram in a shot with skin tones cause you could very easily ending up overexposing and possibly ruining the shot. ETTR is for raw, log and maybe jpegs/8 bit video without skin tones. If you look at Paul's images and explanation I would agree that you should adjust the exposure until the zebras disappears from the face, but that is definitely not a good idea. http://www.leeminglutone.com/#howtoettr But's kind of funny how we're arguing over this, but we're actually kinda agreeing Thanks for the tests @jonpais!

Yes I'm just making stuff up. That's why I use my real name when I discuss things on the internet @mercer I think you might be right that it's not as noticeable in daylight. I noticed a big difference in color when I compared the 12mm to 12-35mm, but it seems to be a smaller difference in daylight. @kidzrevil yes, there is a noticeable color shift to yellow from +/-0 to -1. And +1 doesn't do for me. Did you see that color shift in your tests as well? One important thing to remember is that we all have different shooting scenarios so I don't believe there are different methods that can work in different situations. Thanks for sharing your opinion guys. I will do more testing to see what suits me the best and it's probably gonna be zebras at 90 as many of you are saying, but I will do more testing with 100 as well.

@jonpais Are you sure this is ETTR? Looks more like +/-0. Can you post a frame of the ETTR soon so I can see the histogram i Lightroom?

@Orangenz So it’s ok for Jon to state his opinion without any images and not even having the camera, but I have to show proof? Jon didn’t mention the GH5 and neither did I in my reply to him. I was talking in general with my experience with Panasonic cameras. And as many others have stated before me they are getting better color when underexposing a little bit. Not better DR, not better noise performance but color. This is my experience as well but I have not done any extensive testing. Both @kidzrevill and Shane has done extensive testing and I agree with their findings. If you don’t agree that’s fine, but you should accept that there are different opinions on this subject, and if you believe ETTR is the only way then please do a test like Shane did and post it here. @jonpais v-log should off course only be used when you the time to do it properly.

@jonpais I think it's a little more complicated than that. What really matters is what you expose for, skin tones, skies etc. And it's really difficult to get it spot on without a light meter and a monitor as Curtis mentions in the video. It's a lot harder to expose v-log than cine D with just the camera. I mess up the exposure to often when I shoot, but I agree with @kidzrevil that the colors look better when they are slightly underexposed, and corrected in post. You've probably seen it before but I'm really curios to hear your thoughts on this test by Shane Hurlbut? http://www.thehurlblog.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh4-vlog-l-latitude-test-cinematography-education/

Wow, looks great!! What is the post workflow on this?

The other videos are actually shot with the GH3, except a few B shots in a couple of videos. The other videos are shot with LED's in the winter and these new ones with natural light so they are not 100% comparable. Anyway, the color coming out of the newer camera models are just so much easier to handle in post. The DR gained in this shot is probably lost in the grade I don't see much either and this location is a bit tricky to say the least. I've tried covering up the windows, but it looks a bit weird and I obviously loose a lot light. I'm still getting used to exposing v-log and these were a bit too much underexposed if I remember correctly. But for what it is I'm happy with the result for now. I just got the G85 really cheap and that is a great camera. The GX85 is much better looking, but the ergonomics on the G85 is in another league. Compared to the GH5 and GX85 it's easily the most bang for buck for enthusiasts who wants a small footprint. The GH5 is much more a "Pro" camera which can be built into a low-budget cinema camera. The GH5 is also a lot bigger and heavier. Have you went to the store to check it out yet? When the GH4 v-log was leaked I was very excited to see how good it looked with just a small contrast correction, unfortunately it didn't work well without an external recorder. Now with the GH5 you don't need that unless you want to shoot 4K 50p. I probably don't need the GH5 or v-log but it's very exciting to shoot with and I also enjoy the challenge of mastering it and improving my skills. This camera will be with until 1) the GH6 comes out with or 2) someone starts paying me and I need something better (which is very unlikely ). What I like about the GH5 though is that there is nothing to miss. Every feature I need is there and it just feels solid. And even though I've had it for a while I've barely touched the surface, there are so many new features to explore like the Like 709 profile that I just tried and looks very promising. Slow motion is also very cool!

If someone want to have a look at v-log skin tones I also made these videos. The grade is a little bit different between the and I guess somewhere in the middle would be better, but I'm very pleased with how easy it is to get good skin tones in v-log. At least I'm satisfied with the result and it can only get better. Turn down the sound if you don't want to listen to a strange Nordic language

400 is closest to the true color.I believe it shifts towards yellow the higher you go. It's more pronounced in the side by side but if you stack them on top of each other not that big off a difference. 3200 is also a little bit brighter. It's also noticeable in @Neumann Films video posted below. No post noise reduction in this one, but check out @Neumann Films test with Neat video. Yes, but it's still a pretty good performance for a m43 camera.

I made close up skin tone ISO test in V-log. It seems to hold up a better in the noise department than the GX85 and G85. I see that I should used soft lights instead of window light, maybe next time.

4K in a Canon Cinema camera you say. How does $ 8 000 sound? I'll bet they will continue to sell c100 mkii and c300 mkii at the same price as now and place this new model right in the middle.

If they made the focus transition feature controllable via the image app it would be much more useful.

It's a really strange list and if I were a newbie I'd be more confused than anything. Lot's of people rate the Nocticron as number 1, but other than it's a very random list. I think it's based on their ratings and when they give the Nocti 5/5 on value vs 4/5 on the much cheaper Oly 75mm which most people rate as almost equal in image quality with a less useful focal length. To me that equals the same value, certainly not 20% less value than Nocti.

The 15mm Pana Leica is excellent, my favorite among the cheaper lenses. I don't think you can go wrong with a used 25mm 1.4 used or a new Sigma 30mm 1.4 either (similar priced and the Sigma is probably a little bit better, but also a little bit bigger). The primes @Borbarad mentioned is the best lenses in the system but they come at a high cost. And obviously there are great native manual lenses but I'm guessing you want AF.

Yeah, I have experienced that myself a few times with the Cine D lut. When I have used the v-log lut the results have been very good every time. In Norway they're in stock everywhere and has been for a couple of weeks. Excited to hear how you like the camera!

And judging by your latest videos it doesn't look like you need 4K 50P

I agree and other than 4K 60p it's hard to see what else they can add. 20mp sensor, lossless ex. tcv, headphone jack, 120p? I also agree that they could put 60P in the next G camera some time next year maybe, but I'm not sure it's possible due to overheating. The GH5 is huge compared to the G85. I think the next will be GX9, and it will be aimed for photographers with dual card slots but not v-log, 10 bit etc. Only time will tell, but for now I'm very happy with my setup with G85 and GH5 Will probably sell the GX85 soon.

The color is similar to the GX85 and G85, but with Cine D and V-log it's better I think. I need to shoot more but for now I'm very pleased with the results I've been getting with 10-bit 25p v-log. In post I use the Leeming lut as base and grade from there. Grading from scratch is doable and a nice way to get better at grading. The camera is very much as I expected, a big upgrade from the GH4 with all the new features from the GX85/G85 and more. It's not going to compete with BM, Canon and Sony for DR, RAW, low light etc, but who was really expecting that? It's an amazing camera for the money, but you can get better images less money (I know you know that). If you don't plan to shoot v-log, 4K 60p, anamorphic or slow motion I would probably recommend the G85 for less than half the price. It's more power hungry though, so you need at least 2 batteries. Note that I shoot with Panasonic cameras because the image is good enough for me and I think it's the most complete system for my needs: reliability, price, size, weight, ergonomics, lens choice etc.

Very nice video @jase! I just bought a G85 as they were on sale for almost 40% here in Norway. Keep looking and maybe there will be similar deals in Germany. My first impressions is that ergonomics is much better than the GX85 (obviously). Compared to my GH5 it's very small and light, and even though Panasonic is releasing new models I very much doubt any of them will have 4K 60P if that's something you want. The GH5 is big for a reason. The size and weight difference to the GH4 and G85 is much more noticeable than in pictures.

@Brother I've noticed it too and had to double check if the monitoring was turned on. I think @Orangenz is right and it's just the implementation of the feature. It's not quite what I was expecting but It's still very useful.