Kisaha

Canon cameras have internal mics. They are REALLY cheap and already mounted, why bother with useless, expensive and bulky equipment?

@Andrew Reid Cheers! https://www.produzionidalbasso.com/project/samsung-nx-camera-to-full-frame-with-nxl-adapter/ Probably has a couple left, but he isn't in the forum lately. No aperture, just speedboosting! People seem excited about the quality, some say that it is equal, or even better than Metabones speedboosters. He has more videos about NX-L. This is the thread, to cut a long story short, the crowd funding campaign doesn't exist anymore, the he was working on a Aputure Dec to NX conversion, but he is lost for the last couple of months now. https://el-gr.facebook.com/NXL-284084538620105/ If you care about the NX-L, drop him a message on facebook (the crowdfunding campaign email doesn't work anymore).

@Andrew Reid First of all I am glad you are more active with your blog and forum. Most of us we are here because we trust and value your independent thinking and opinions. To add some things to the discussion. GH5 batteries are the same as GH4s while the camera needs more power to operate (a lot of extra features and processing power). I have read that power consumption in real life is much bigger than GH4s were. I can not be certain of course. I week ago a shot a 3 hours continuous performance with my NX1/NX500/NX3000 with only one battery each, and I own the cameras (and the batteries) for a couple of years now (the NX1 a bit less, and in the end I changed the NX500 battery, just to be sure). There is a whole thread about the NX1 EF speedbooster in your NX sub forum, people reporting great results, but it is a somehow specialized, and limited edition item so the price is to the higher side (600euros was it?), and it is called NX-L (it also has a Nazi thunder logo on it! Just kidding, but it does)! The main reason I didn't care, was the fact that I am covered with native lenses 100%. I used to use a 18-135 EF-S with a plain adapter, but no need for that anymore. In the Philip Bloom video, he added the NX1 probably just for fun, and in my opinion it was the second best after Dual Pixel. I have expressed my opinion, that even Dual Pixel canon in spec sheets seem less than Sony's latest AF trickery, in real life is the best AF system and the one and only for pro video, but in my experience NX is working sufficiently good (Great results with Ronin and sliders), and better than Sony's (yesterday on a short that I was doing sound, an a6500 on gimbal and slider was extremely unstable so the camera men could use AF). Plus, GH5 seems (and probably is) bulkier, and has almost 40% more weight than the NX1 (550 vs 725gr), if you add a cage, mic and a few extras, those 175grms are something. GH cameras are pretty reliable cameras and highly recommended for "serious" videographers. Something that is not mentioned a lot, and it should, is that H265 workflow right now is much easier than GH5 10 bit one, and 10 bit is demanding in both hardware and software, but mainly hardware!

Don't all act like the solution isn't already viable. JVC has a perfectly good little camcorder which is NOT a cine camera (even though it is great for shorts and in the fringe of higher spec-ed cameras) and it is NOT advertised by JVC as such, but it costs 2650$ in US, and it is 3000euros in my country, where everything is 20% more expensive than usual EU prices. What they did? Variable sensor, native m43 mount and S35 and even smaller formats. If JVC can do it for 3000euros, I do not see why Panasonic can't for 7500-8000 and still have better specs. The JVC does 4K/60p with an Atomos too. It is not science fiction, it is happening, NOW! https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333370-REG/jvc_jvc_atmni4k60pcb_gy_ls300_4kcam_ninja.html 3440$ !!! I wouldn't never buy a m43 "cine" camera, but I would definitely buy a variable sensor one, and a GH5 and some G85 as B and C, and photography and every day cameras, and I would have a huge advantage, because right now there isn't any mirrorless Canon cameras for the C100mkII or C200 worthy buying. A lot of friends and colleagues are asking me "what Canon as a B camera?", and I can't light heartedly propose them any. So they go with FS5s and A7sIIs and a6xxx cameras, but they are not very happy with those! C series have nailed AF and ergonomics, they are huge selling points for me.

https://cvp.com/index.php?t=product/canon_eos_c200_ef_camcorder&utm_source=mailshot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=email It is 8800euros, and CVP is usually the cheapest in Europe (I do my business in EU, so mostly German/Belgium/Netherlands as UK decided to exclude themselves from Europe, so I can't risk have any issues later on with my business paper work) and for such an expensive and pro machine maybe buying locally (will it be even more expensive) is a better idea. Euro prices aren't coming from US$ prices, we have a completely different pricing system here. We have the most taxes to pay. 1300euros MORE, than the US price, is 1500MORE US$, we buy the same camera that you buy for 7500, we buy for 9000$. That applies to everything, when people talk with B&H prices I weep.. @visionrouge All the reviews I have read the Sony lens is vastly inferior to the 18-80CN-E, is not a true cine lens (Cn-E ain't either, but at least it is close!) and has lesser servo mechanisms and features. In image quality and "cine" characteristics (focal breathing, par focalness) it is worst than the Fuji 18-55 and 50-135 ones, and Canon C200 will be out in a couple of months. FS7 and the lens is great for all around work, you are not going to miss much, but if I was going Sony, the Fuji lenses are excellent value for performance.

@mercer in 5-6 years 8K will be the standard and the conversation will probably shift to full frame video cameras, or medium format video. I was expecting the Panasonic to be around 6500euros and Canon at 7500euros - but hoped for 500euros less! I don't know the US pricing, but right now, Canon is more than 9000euros in Europe. That's a lot of money, and I do not think that it is a viable option for this market and me specifically, especially if someone wants to pair it with the 18-80 CN-E lens. Now, (I know it is too soon probably) I am wondering what a C100mkIII could bring to the table. A 4K/30frames and 1080 10bit codec and 1080/120frames 8bit is all I need, no raw, no 4K/60p, Dual Pixel - yes, please - and with a touch screen, and that close to 5500euros, so 12.000euros with the lens, while is 15000euros for C200 and CN-E..hm.. In the end, pricing and features sets the market. I am expecting Panasonic to lower the price, or it won't be easy to take a lot of FS5 and Canon users. @IronFilm I wouldn't call any Canon codec as "shitty shit shit". What history has taught us is that Canon can have a shitty shit shit sensor, but never a shitty shit shit codec! All their low bitrate ones over perform and deliver. I am not going to dismiss a Canon just from the spec list, or else 98% of the world and 90% of the professional world, would be shooting with the a6300, and that is a really bad implemented camera. In the end, numbers are just numbers, real life samples and workflows are the final judge. Monday we are going for an ok corporate (big winery and alcoholic beverages company, at least for our standards - probably New Zealand's too, but "middling" production), camera of choice? Canon C100markII, with a shitty shit shit codec!

I posted this elsewhere, but now I sense this is more appropriate for this thread. Until the 2 cameras are out, and final specs and prices are set, Canon still can be a great option, this Panasonic isn't a C200 killer -if the rumored 8000$ stays. The ND in Canon is 10 vs 6 here, it seems like Sony will be ahead of those for the next 3-5 years with their e-ND. Internal Canon raw, even for 15minutes per 128GB is a thing, can't complain about it, better to have (ain't this right @mercer ). The Panasonic raw is rumored to be a paid upgrade in the feature (we certainly do not know, it seems possible for a company that sells log for 100$!), still I do not blame them, if it save the camera a 500$, but still.. Canon C cameras are no slouch in high ISO, maybe not native 5000, but certainly no problem to work with a similar number. We don't even know the base ISOs of this camera, it can be 800/3200, and 3200 is perfectly fine for C cameras. The camera is still in development while people will have C200s in August or early September (and still in development, 5 months before its estimated release, is a bit worrying, it is not good to rush things). Dual Pixel AF is something I want in my next camera. I have enjoyed using it occasionally with the Canon C100mkII, and I am hearing great things from C300mkII users. AF it is not a gimmick, and having a touch screen to choose AF on a less than 9999$ camera, it can be exactly what will make it more mainstream in video professionals. 240frames slow motion ain't even a thing for me, I have used 120(100)frames on my NX1 twice in the 2 years I own the camera, and a couple of times we have rented a FS700 for slow mo purposes in the last 3 years maybe. 60(50) frames is mandatory to have, 120(100) is perfect for most uses. I won't deny the Panasonic advantage, even for small bursts is a great feature, but I won't base my decision in this (while internal raw and Dual Pixel are huge!). That dramatic slow motion effect is over rated in my opinion and this is coming from someone that used to be a high speed camera operator for some time! The price difference (8-7500$) is not that huge from the C200, while a JVC LS300 (that keeps mentioning here and for good reasons) is 2650$ (that is a competitive price! not even close in specs, but hold some aces into its sleeve as well, and for the price..). Panasonic should be closer to 5500$ to be competitive to Canon/Sony, not 7500$, and that shows something about how much a really competitive S35 professional video camera can cost. If Panasonic can't make it cheap (while selling a camcorder with a fixed lens at 4500$), and BlackMagic can't make it cheaper, then maybe it ain't possible (that goes to everyone complaining about C200 pricing). Of course we have to address the elephant in the room, C200 has no middle codec. This Panasonic announcement will probably push Canon to announce in winter time a middling 10 bit codec I guess. While they still can sell cameras (Panasonic has no definite delivery time, while Canon has) and keep the C300mkII people silent for a few more months, but C200 (as the name indicates!) is the perfect "middling" tier camera, only that it isn't! Fs5 mark II anyone?!

I enjoyed 13 reasons why, watched on not an expensive TV set, really excited about the Varicam look. Until the 2 cameras are out, and final specs and prices are set, Canon still can be an option, this Panasonic isn't a C200 killer -if the rumored 8000$ stays. The ND in Canon is 10 vs 6 here, it seems like Sony will be ahead of those for the next 3-5 years with their e-ND. Internal Canon raw, even for 15minutes per 128GB is a thing, can't complain about it, better to have (ain't this right @mercer ). The Panasonic raw is rumored to be a paid upgrade in the feature (we certainly do not know, it seems possible for a company that sells log for 100$!), still I do not blame them, if it save the camera a 500$, but still.. Canon C cameras are no slouch in high ISO, maybe not native 5000, but certainly no problem to work with a similar number. We don't even know the base ISOs of this camera, it can be 800/3200, and 3200 is perfectly fine for C cameras. The camera is still in development while people will have C200s in August or early September (and still in development, 5 months before its estimated release, is a bit worrying, it is not good to rush things). Dual Pixel AF is something I want in my next camera. I have enjoyed using it occasionally with the Canon C100mkII, and I am hearing great things from C300mkII users. AF it is not a gimmick, and having a touch screen to choose AF on a less than 9999$ camera, it can be exactly what will make it more mainstream in video professionals. I have used 120(100)frames on my NX1 twice in the 2 years I own the camera, and a couple of times we have rented a FS700 for slow mo purposes in the last 3 years maybe. 60(50) frames is mandatory to have, 120(100) is perfect for most uses. I won't deny the Panasonic advantage, even for small bursts is a great feature, but I won't base my decision in this (while internal raw and Dual Pixel are huge - for me!). That dramatic slow motion effect is over rated in my opinion and this is coming from someone that used to be a high speed camera operator for some time! The price difference (8-7500$) is not that huge from the C200, while a JVC LS300 (that keeps mentioning here and for good reasons) is 2650$ (that is a competitive price! not even close in specs, but hold some aces into its sleeve as well, and for the price..). Panasonic should be closer to 5500$ to be competitive to Canon/Sony, not 7500$, and that shows something about how much a really competitive S35 professional video camera can cost. If Panasonic can't make it cheap (while selling a camcorder with a fixed lens at 4500$), and BlackMagic can't make it cheaper, then maybe it ain't possible. Of course we have to address the elephant in the room, C200 has no middle codec. This Panasonic announcement will probably push Canon to announce in winter time a middling 10 bit codec I guess. While they still can sell cameras (Panasonic has no definite delivery time, while Canon has) and keep the C300mkII people silent for a few more months, but C200 (as the name indicates!) is the perfect "middling" tier camera, only that it isn't! Sony FS5 mark II anyone?!

I use NX cameras for recording live performances, for a couple of years now, I hope my "luck" won't stop any time soon. I am looking right now at a live performance we did a few days ago, and I have a 60 and 50minutes files (and a few smaller ones). I usually have 4-5 files on 3 hours performances, and I cut just to be sure (for people not familiar with NX1/NX500 there is a 73min limit, and NX300 unlimited). Today I had a meeting about a shooting we have in the weekend. There was a friend with an a6300, he also has the A7Sii, and last year we had a heated (no pun indented) conversation about how the small Sony could cope with the hot Mediterranean conditions that we have for 6-8 months per year. Last year he defended the camera, but today he told me that he wants to throw it away. The camera is shutting down, AFTER the firmware update, and in 1080p, he lost something critical once ( I do not know the details, and I wouldn't like to be the "I told you so" guy), and now he is trying not to use it that much, or at all. He also mentioned batteries and ergonomics. Now it is 3 out of 3 from people I know . From my perspective, this camera has overheating issues. The way Fuji faced this issue for this similar sensor, is more straightforward and honest in my opinion. And Panasonic made a huge m43 camera (while small size was a huge advantage of the system until now) to overcome heat issues (it is well documented in many interviews). Sony just changed the threshold of the sensor..

I propose to change the thread title to "The Canon C200 is here but we don't care about any camera that costs more than 2999", but be aware, then we have to exclude the next A7 mark III cameras too! @tugela Canon C200 costs 8000$ (or whatever) but there are C100 I and II and PDAF under that, and the C300mkII, and the C700, and in between you have Sony cameras such as FS5, FS7 I and II and the high end Sonys, Ursa Mini Pro, Red, Alexas etc. Why do these cameras exist? Canon value this camera as such, if there is a market we will see really soon. I commented on that ABC pic above, I do not like to repeat myself, it is pretty obvious that that crew isn't a professional one. It is pretty obvious that you can NOT shoot video and stills in the same time, you shoot either video, or stills. So, you either do the interview, or taking stills, but be aware if you have a dSLR and I do the sound, because ain't worst than the shutter sound on an typical interview. You say you are a scientist, you should know that "a sensor in a box" can be more expensive than whatever your family owns right now, and in the next 2 generations, don't simplify so much extraordinary things such as modern digital video cameras. The amount of processing and digital data that come and go and become something else is just amazing. What camera you owned 10 years ago? Was it more than a sensor in a box? @Damphousse Do you think that I still use Hi-8 cameras?

The only serious issue of NX (and that goes to most modern cameras) is the aggressive noise reduction in higher ISO. Where in your tests are those artefacts you are talking about? Obviously is not Alexa, but "full of artefacts" is a stretch for sure..

What is your indented use? We have some recent threads comparing Fuji and NX1, X-T2 and X-T20 are your only Fuji options. It is difficult to find something similar to NX right now, ticking so many boxes. Don't underestimate the GH5, is a reliable workhorse, Panny cameras really work.

a6300 is a no go if you are a NX1 user. Everything (except ISO as you mentioned) will be much worst. Maybe you can try Fuji, or GH5. Panasonic seems like the best bet right now, especially with the 12-60mm kit. How much is the refund, and where did you send it? Did you have the warranty and receipt?

What @gt3rs said. Because something is "enough", doesn't mean you have to do it the absolute minimum way. Cave and palm paintings were enough for humanoids, why do we need iMAX cinemas? I mean.. come on.. Where I disagree with @gt3rs is that, C200 IS the camera to do everything. For me the perfect combo right now is the C200+18-80 Cine lens, and you got everything, you can take this combo and do a short film, a corporate, ENG, wedding, school play, whatever you want. In 5 school plays you can get as much as a short film's work, and you got less stress! You can add up these 2 different incomes, and pay your newly bought C200! This combo is 12-13.000$ or 15.000euros. The US price is really great. It is a combo that you can use easily for the next 5-6 years (if it doesn't broke) and upgrade for workflow and production. And I am pretty sure that everyone will support whatever codec/format Canon will adapt in their latest cameras. You can take a JVC LS300 and stick an ENG lens over there and you got it all, and the JVC is around 2650$. There are options and people can act accordingly. Because at some point, some people used a dSLR to shoot something, doesn't make them industry standard, or most convenient for pro people - of course it doesn't make them worthless either, I just do not get your point. There are a few films shot on a mobile phone, I assure you that most people CAN'T have a great film shot on a mobile phone, some do, well done, but the exceptions are there to confirm the general rules . The pics from the ABC interview shown some people that doesn't look at all as videographers, not even amateur ones. There is a girl nicely dressed, a guy that is holding a camera 3rd time in his life, and another one that seems like he was passing by to his way to the opera and they stopped him and give him a camera to hold. They ain't even dress as working professionals (comfortable clothes, good shoes). If you are working for an ENG day you want to feel comfortably, not sweat, not getting cold, you are about to stand most of the day, you have to hold your own equipment, etc etc. The Sound bag probably costs more than the total of their setup there (especially if he has an advanced Sound Devices and Lectrosonics!). That Sony lens isn't that great, it is just cheap. I would rather have the 18-135, and it has a servo motor too..

I have yet to deliver any 4K content. Our TV stations just last year started to send HD signal, and not all of them, and people (and clients) still ask for DVDs. This is our market. I just started recently to work with -very limited- 4K, and the only reason is re-framing. BUT, I wouldn't buy a no 4K camera in 2017. This Canon is at the top of my list right now, I feel there will be a FS5ii really soon, and the new Panasonic, but I am valuing dual pixel AF greatly, and the 18-80mm lens will be a perfect workhorse combo for some years to come (maybe with a better middle 10bit codec later on, maybe when C300mark III has 4K/120f and what not). C100markII still is pretty much relevant in our job (in a few days I am going for a corporate shoot with it and a case of L lenses), I expect the C200 to be the standard workhorse for at least half a dozen years, even 8K in the future will be optimized for VR and 360, for 2D presentations 4K will be fine for a lot of years to come! We have to admit, Canon really tried with this one, it is a major upgrade, still missing a robust middle codec (which is a HUGE omission) but in general is ticking a lot of boxes, and for a 9000$ camera, you spend another 6000$ for the 18-80mm, and you shoot all day, and all night. I saw somewhere that Canon said it is the C700 sensor, but the specs show that it is the older one. Does any one know for sure what sensor do they use?

Exactly, the value is so little, that it is not worth to buy anything else right now, while I have a 3 camera setup able to video most things, and take pictures of most things. The C200 is on my radar for sure, but until I have a similar setup in Canon M (a professional M camera, and a smaller 4K everyday camera at least), then I am keeping NX. The cameras are making their money, and then some, so no reason to rush and get something inferior that I will change next year. There is no way 3 cameras and 8 lenses loosing 80% of their value in one year. I am looking forward to move everything Canon, until then NX check most of my boxes while others do not.

@Andrew Reid wow Andrew, you said it all dude! I was considering selling everything NX (NX1/NX500/NX3000+lenses and accessories) and buy into GH5 and whatever Varicam Mini Lite Micro comes soon, but I think I will just keep them and used them until they melt. I just recently started shooting 4K, and that opened a whole new world for me. Plus, the 28MP BSI sensor is still top APS-C sensor around for photography - a true hybrid camera- while battery/heat management/ergonomics (even the NX500 for its class is a breeze to use)/connectivity are just top of the tops (perfect for 3 hours live performances, Saturday I shot one without changing NX1 and NX3000 batteries, and barely used another NX500 one). They also record 73minutes straight and with good H265 file sizes (didn't changed any SD cards at all!). Selling everything buys me a GH5 and a couple of the good lenses. I prefer my 3 NXes and my collection of native lenses for the time being and the next couple of years I guess. Not selling when the panic started late 2015 actually saved me more money, as people have changed 2 or 3 systems since then.

Crickets and cicadas are very sensitive to highlight rolloffs, so they use Alexa's mainly; or just jump around and/or sing.

@Hans Punk Thank you very much, my impression is that they offer the easiest and most portable solution (for the price), but 4 Tentacles is a big cost for low budget productions. Maybe the good old "manual" sync in post ain't that bad! Especially with the NXes that record 73 minutes per take. Cheers!

Yes, how many do you need for 3 cameras and a sound recorder?

@Hans Punk Have you used the NX cameras with the Tentacle?

@ssrdd I am waiting for a 4K C100 type of camera 1 and a half year now! The LS300 @Alt Shoo mentioned is a great option in 3000euros, +1000 for a Atomos, you have 4K/60p, great (and too many) codec options, variable sensor (native m43 and whatever else through adapters) and a 7" monitor (the Atomos), and a great run and gun 4:2:2 camera on its own with Prime zoom function.

Guys, the solution is already done, LS300, variable sensor.

@Andrew Reid From where the industry is (and where it goes), Canon has nothing to do with entry-entry-entry level devices such camera phones. It's ok to have a couple of dead cheap compacts, just in case, but in a couple of years that won't even make 0,000001% (add zeros accordingly!) of Canon's net profit. Canon has to move into mobile phone's territory, look at Leica and others, it is an industry they will never compete, it's better to get something -imagine a mobile phone "powered by Canon"- that will appeal to a lot of Canon lovers (and they are a bunch), than nothing to do at all, in the biggest retail industry in the whole world. Also I doubt that alone, Canon can compete with the 90% (or something) of a Sony dominant market. Remember 2014's NX1 sensor? and CPU? and fast memory read out? I doubt that Canon has reached this level now, even 3 years later. The Sony sensors are MANUFACTURED by Sony image sensoring division, are not designed by them, and why not utilize one of the few things Canon has a clear advantage against Sony? Canon without Dual Pixel would be nothing in 2017. Anyway, we will see, we don't really know for sure any of these!!

@Andrew Reid Truth is, that only Samsung has Dual Pixel technology in their mobile phones, so I would guess there is some kind of licensing going on. Co-operating with Samsung would be very positive for the older players, such Canon and Nikon, that seem to missing some innovation in the connectivity/touch screen/mirrorless era. Samsung is the only other sensor manufacture that can make a dent to the Sony-owned industry. Also, there are a lot of us, even here, preferring the C100/FS5 form, as our workhorses, and dSLR/mirrorless as B or C cameras to our workflows. Also, A7sIII needs more things than better AF to compete with these kind of cameras (C200/C100iii-Panasonic light mini).