Kisaha

Imaging products is 41.8% and they try to reduce it even more. Eventually cameras will be just a legacy thing for Nikon, and probably for most of us.

I never dismissed any camera (or object/item/product/person, for that matter, everyone and everything has their role on a market/planet), I simply replied to the idea, that the 6K is a no brainer, quite the oppossite of what you say, I said, really! The 6K is a no brainer, it is difficult to choose between the 2. As of the forums, we talked about the 4K on the 6K thread as well, I know, because I was there commenting! The P4K was a shocking announcement. Since then a lot happened, other companies offer 6K or 5.6K. The fact that you are considering the 6K as "an additional camera", like me, is self-explained really. You didn't say, "I will sell all my GH5 and GH5s and the P4K cameras to grab the 6K". Right. The usual price before the price reduction was around 2700euros in Europe, that was almost half price of the P4K, a young dude, or someone working on the lower spectrum of budgets, couldn't easily reach the P6K before, and if anyone was going above the 2500, there were some choices in full frame hybrids or used Cine cameras, so making the choice more difficult. We all are consider getting one because of the price reduction, NOW it is a viable option, before, it was an exotic choice. I am pretty sure if we had the info, there are at least 2 to 3 times more P4K in the wild than P6K. When/If you buy a 6K, let us know what do you think.

What servo lens are you referring to? The 6K, not? What about the 18-135 with the servo thingy under it?

@independent As I said, use specific, the 6K is better for you. Fine. I just pin pointed some things that make the P4K an indie hit, while the 6K is still not as well received. You claim that one should buy the 6K, but I proved with real life examples and reasoning that it is not the case. P4K is the first choice, and the 6K is an afterthought for the majority. 1.270.000 views and 453 pages in this thread 74.000 views and 33 pages for the 6K one. It is pretty obvious you are not talking for the masses. The Viltrox adapters start from 99$, you do not have to buy Metabones, and if one want to invest on Metabones XL that goes from X1.56 from factor to X1.25(do not remember exactly the number) which is a quite significant difference. That is not even close. One case you stick with X1.56 (not even S35) and the other X1.2X to X1.9 (great tele reach for live performances or shows). Also, when speedboosting, the 4K erases what benefit the 6K has in low light, which was like half a stop or something, not a huge difference anyway. I never shoot in high ISO, 3200 has me covered 100%. I am not a speleologist. As of the audio side of things, when we use Red cameras the workflow is a lot different and quite honestly we are trying to avoid them for scripted drama (for other reasons than sound). Usually we use them for video clips or small projects such these. Isn't the fan stoped when you record on a Red camera? I am not sure, but I remember I didn't have any issues while recording, but we have a video village, and my boom op is one of the best in the country. When one uses the Pocket, that means that is a very low budgeted work with no much luxuries and/or a full crew. I am surprised that you claim you work on a big company and use the Pocket as your main camera. It is actually the first I heard. Pocket cameras are not ready for the big scene yet, is my opinion. As of the powering and media issue, the 6K needs a lot more juice, that is a fact, I can shoot for a working day with a couple or three LP betteries (after the update), depending the project of course, the 6K is just not possible. Also, I quoted a very specific example there which one needs multiple times the data of an 4K (obviously you get more data, so it must have benefits, right) there isn't a way to sugar coat it, a fact is a fact and numbers are numbers. This is not a philosophical debate. What is philosophical, and we can argue for months about it, my opinion is these cameras are perfect for no budget shorts, but if you shoot 3-5 days, which is the usual time for a short, can rent a better camera for a lot less money, and if you shoot a bigger project you play with the big guns anyway. The last couple of shorts we did, rent a C200, that was almost the price of a C100mkII rent a couple of years ago. Honestly, my Pocket is the least used camera I ever owned. Mine is fully rigged with a lot of adapters and a few Speedboosters and even CFast cards and T5 and everything in between, still if it is a bigger project I would choose a bigger/better camera, or for a smaller project I would get my hybrids. So, most people will get the cheaper one just because is dead cheap, while a lot more will be getting the 6K now with the price cut and the benefits the ATEM Pro brings. Before it was somewhere between no man's land.

Obviously all these are very specific to your job. Obviously there are some advantages to 6K S35 EF camera, but a same camera with an RF mount could be even better. I could argue that: 1) no Braw at 4K. Most people do not even deliver on 4K yet, let alone 6K.. 2) Crop Factor with Speedboosters, can go from X1.9 to X1.2, and a lot of different steps in between. With a passive one you can have X1.9 when you need tele, and move accordingly down the lane. A lot of people already own Speedboosters, I owned the Lens Regain even before I owned any m43 camera (the Pocket is my first). A little bit of more light and some other stuff, you know the drill. 4) Lenses, so many cheap and quite good, and smallish/lightish m43 lenses 5) I can work with my native batteries on the P4K, that is not even close to the 6K, you definitely need an external powering solution. 6) EF is great, but I have a full set of FD (there must be 8-9 lenses from my AE-1 days) that I would like to use occassionaly. 7) P6K has maybe the most noisy fans on a camera, as a sound man (that is my main profession) that considers me a lot. 8 an example "At the highest constant bit rate encoding option—3:1—the Pocket 4K clocks in with a storage rate of 135 MB/s. The Pocket 6K, however, will be bringing in 3:1 footage at a colossal 323 MB/s. Roughly, you’re looking at just under 19GB a minute.". Yes, media are relatively cheap these days, but not free. If you record and store the footage, can increase your monthly bill on hard drives and recording media significantly. 9) I do not know about the future! Still most of our media consumed are not even 4K. Of course I am not "against" the 6K, I just make the argument. I may buy one my self, but the P4K seems like an "essential" buy - anyone could/has buy one, while the P6K, is more of an acquired taste. As you can see the P4K thread is multiple times bigger than the P6K, same story on sales probably (I do not have the stats, but I still haven't seen a P6K on the wild), and maybe that is why they had to reduce the price significantly. These are cameras for the "budget consious" consumers. If you are running a succesful fashion agency I would guess that you are playing with the best toys, not some cheap - o camera for the underaged masses. Even the cost of another T5 hard drive is important to those consumers. Let's face it, the main selling point here is the price of each camera. I personally bought one because I had some stuff around anyway, so it didn't cost me much to "build" on this camera, and still can play with the Braw with no much fuss. The Resolve was a bonus as well, as I saved some money for my tiny business. If you increase your budget there are other options too, some 4K full frame (Sigma fp?), some even 6K, before the price reduction the P6K wasn't such a nice proposition. Still, as much I hate the design and form factor, this series of Pocket cameras are sort of a revolution for this new generation of content creators.

To be honest, I am not going to defend the Pocket4K's ergonomics. I dislike very much the body desing. They went for the hybrid desing, but on a bigger video camera? I do not know. It is not nice and practical at all. I say that since day 1, and even after I bought one for the Braw capabilities and as a stop-gap until I decide on a new hybrid system. The first Pocket was great on paper, but in real life it was completely unusable as it was. Great image, did some projects with it, but you couldn't do almost anything without all the extras. This P4K/6K it is at least usable with just a lens. That's it, it is not great. As I see it is a video recorder which you can stick a lens and shoot something too! I The older Sonys coming from Minolta were indeed solid little cameras with some great lens designs too, where are all those famous Konica-Minolta engineers? It seems like noone of them still works for Sony! GH5 is 725gr and NX1 is 550gr (both incuding batteries. GH4 was 560gr with battery), with the smaller m43 lenses the GH5 feels llike a brick to my hands! Imagine that I rock one of my NX1 with the 45mm most of the times, which is 665gr in total! A lot less than only the GH5 body. Even with the 12-100mm the camera feels heavy on the body.

Fujis are real cameras made by people being in the industry for decades, Sony older bodies were/are a joke. The Pocket comment is a bit unfair, it is not a hybrid camera, you can't reallly compare it with a hybrid. It is a different thing, that does different things, while you can use it as a hybrid when you can't the Ursa! I have used handheld the P4K with a 12mm Samyang and a lot of times with the 12-100mm Olympus, it is doable, I have done it, it ain't a Sony! ..but the camera shines when half rigged which is a lot lighter and smaller than an Ursa. I personally do not like at all the shape/design of the BM, but you do not buy one to use it as a photo camera, that is why I have kept all my NX stuff and still use them, even today! You cover your dedicated video needs with the Ursa, I do with the Pocket. Maybe Sigma is the real pocket, there are options! For the price point, the 3200ISO performance and the codecs, the camera is great for what it is, a very cheap device that offers what it was unheard of a few years ago. I also have a second very light setup, 12-100mm again and this battery adapter https://www.hawkwoods.co.uk/Cine/P/DV-BM4 with 2 of those batteries https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1420284-REG/idx_system_technology_sl_f50_l_series_batteries_high.html that have a normal weight and size ratio for the camera (not too heavy on weight, not too light on power. Also X-tap and USB), and I am oldschool anyway, I use mono/tri - pods a lot! NX1 battery grip has 1 battery, plus the internal one, I do not remember a time that it went to the battery at the grip! Even today, after so many years with the same batteries and their performance is stellar. I also do not like flippy screens (with the tilt mechanism you can hold the camera on center and balances nicely for tilt up/down moves), and I remember a lot of people were making jokes(!) about the little screen at the top plate, while today that is consider - and is ofcourse - a plus.. Olympus seems to do things right in ergonomics (not so much in menus, since forever, and specs, these days). If I ever move from my NX stuff I could try one for daily photos and use with the 12-100mm. That would be crazy stabilized. GH5, I have to say I do not like it much, not very well balanced, too heavy for m43 lenses. A video workhorse, I have used them a lot, and a lot handheld, but there are a few things that Panasonic has to short out to make it better ergonomically. I am not so keen on Panasonic ergonomics in general, they are not Sony bad (noone can be that bad!), but still can't match the better ones. There is always something missing from Pana cameras to invest on them full heartedly.

worst camera ergonomics ever! Haven't used a worst thing! Also, menus, touch screen(is it?), battery life, red hot camera body..name it. Older A7 cameras were terrible too, the iii is a lot better, still far from optimum, still the menus in chaos. Not a big fun of Fuji ergonomics either, to be honest, but still they have some buttons and dials, unlike the a6xxx..

I am using photo and video cameras for a lot of decades now (since when we only had film), nothing is even close to the NX1, it is just unbelievable how right this camera feels/is. Super AMOLED screens, everything can be done in at least 3 ways, best touch screen implemantation so far, and still the best menus ever (Black Magic are amazing too, but they are just video cameras and their screens are bigger). If you just grip the camera and take a couple of photos, then you are hooked for life. Best size to weight ration also for me,. I am waiting the new Canon R cameras, maybe they will be the closest thing to perfection.

M43 mount can be more versatile, especially for people owning m43 lenses AND EF, like me and having a few speedboosters and/or passive adapters already. Even dead cheap Viltrox solutions will take you a long way. Also, with the various crop factors and different formats, 6K pushes you to shoot at 6K Braw and handle everything else in post later, so a lot bigger budget for recording amd offline media, significantly bigger. Or else, why to buy a 6K Braw camera if not for shooting 6K Braw, while 4K is prores only (? Is this still the case?). As of the Image Quality, we had a few hundred posts here about the subject and the difference is there, but miniscule and not at all as pronounced as you claim and only if closely inspected and compared one next to each other. I do not know many that say "oh, damn, wish I had the 6K for that shot/job", actually do not know anyone with a P6K anyway, while almost everyone has a P4K - especially the m43 crowds that is a very strong group; imagine that we are using GH5 cameras for prime time shows here. I do am charmed by the price reduction (which is significantly less in Europe anyway), but as an additional camera, not a P4K replacement, and that is the "beauty" of BM policy, they make you want to buy both, and maybe the next one later. ATEMs will play a role to that also. The convinience is there certainly, but P6K is not a no-brainer, and sales and people's interest in forums are clear indicators of that.

Phantom is huge, no way I was ever going that way since the 2 Pro image is so competitive. Mavic 2 for me has the best size, small enough to fit on my camera back pack, big enough to have eye contact at most times (I am not very adventurous!). Image wise, I am quite happy with the 2 Pro, there are the usual well documented issues, but not huge deal breakers. Price was/is another issue though. After the Mini 2, you have to be really committed to invest on the Mavic 2 Pro. Variable aperture, 10 bit log, 1" sensor (ISO) and the 2 fields of view (this hids a minus and a plus at the same time!), convinient physical dimensions and weight. I am expecting the new Mavic 3 Pro to be a lot better than the 2, but I am not sure when, and for how much. It can be at the same 1.499$€ price, and the 2 Pro goes down to 1249, certainly the Mini 2 pricing is aggressive, and probably well withing "amateur" use limitations.

Who is hot?! The new sensor?! Well, it did it for me, the new Air is impressive but there is noise even at 100ISO and digital sharpening/no profile choices. 10bit 1" is the minimum for me anyway. I would be happy to have the new thing, the price is very very right and the image holds amazingly well (is it the higher bitrate? Better/newer chip?). But now I have the 2, I will stick to that for a little longer. I am "scared" what the new Mavic 3 Pro will be, as there are certain things I am not happy with the 2 (that distortion is so annoying, and the bitrate a little to the weak side). Mine is barely used, certainly not a good investment, but I can stick to that 10bit image for a couple of years, while previous Mavic's image was unusable for me. If the 3 is the same price as the 2, then I won't even be able to sell it, and it is practically brand new, to sell it as used. Not a real use for 60p for me. I love the size and weight of 2, even less seems more "amateurish"(?)/less substantial for me.

Used to be my favorite run n gun for very fast deliveries combo. It would be perfect if it was 16mm at the wide end, as 24mm equiv. is the sweet spot for me to start an all around zoom. Other combos I really enjoyed using through the years. NX1+16-50S GH5+Olympus 12-100mm P4K with that same lens.

Do not see much traction, to be honest, and fp is lesser than we first thought..BM sold an incredible amount of Pocket cameras the last couple of years, seem like they have a more profitable plan in their minds. The Canon alone with their new proucts will sell more than any L alliance and I am curious to see the new alliences forming (Canon + Red? why not..).

I noticed that the new remote seems a lot more practical than the owful - older - design. That's a good thing I guess. This is clearly their amateur line, while we are waiting obviously a new Mavic series, and probably keep the existing ones with reduced price. Probably the Mavic 2 zoom near 999, the Mavic 2 Pro for 1.199 and the new ones at 1.249 and 1.499. Something like that. I am wondering what's the size difference between the two..

Sigma's power is their lens making - not camera making, so no, Canon doesn't need anyone else.

So, M2Pro still makes sense for us advanced users, right? 10bit and the size of the sensor is a big thing, I guess.. Of course the Mavic is double the price.. Thanks for your contribution @androidlad and @OliKMIA

I just bought a brand new SUV I can't use! You will be fine..

I said something similar on the Pocket thread, I do consider buying the 6K, but I do not see a hybrid as directly compared to, even a Pocket, "cine" camera. A hybrid is an instrument for taking both photos and video, and selling a P4K (for how much?750$?) maybe isn't worth the hassle for such a little price. I would like a C100mkIII, or the rumored XC style RF camera, a small dedicated video tool. The C200 is not very convinient in design, and/or size. In no way I can see myself using 8K any time soon, 6K, maybe for resizing and reframing, even that is too much work, and I just bought a brand new - expensive - workstation..

what's your take Vs the Mavic 2 Pro? I have barely used mine, I wouldn't like to sell it already.. Obviously the sensor is bigger in 2 Pro, and more sensors I guess.. I do not mind the size, I believe it is just perfect, not Phantom-like, which it was too much, but feels more substantial than the Air 2 design (I guess).

It is around 1200$ in U.S, I bet you can find a used one for a lot less, the difference in money is huge, in IQ, is minimum. Have you used one? Braw, Dual ISO coupled with an ok lens and you are good to go. I am happy to use m43 lenses as well, easier, and very productive. The image is, miam.. What else do you have? why you need 3 cameras (I have 4 NX and the P4K now)? It is annoying if you have a lot of different brands and you have to match everything, that is why I try to keep one system, the P4K is bonus, and it is Braw, so it can match anything anyway.

I got a similar case ( a bit cheaper, but pleasantly dark-ish green) with my P4K back in the day. @Anaconda_ Unfortunately they do not ship in my country, and anyway, it is a lot more than the 1.995$ U.S citizens pay. I call it Euro-premium, why we do have to pay the premium anymore, I do not know.. @thebrothersthre3 "almost" is exactly 0 (zero) in any case, whoever low or high a price is. We have discussed extensively the benefits of owing a P4K camera (even vs the 6K), it is not only because of the price, but the price plays a significant role to its success, yes, obviously.

We are NOT U.S citizens! Cheapest I found was at CVP for 2285euros (2474$), that seems to be the cheapest retail price in Europe, still a lot better than most new full frame hybrids and significantly cheaper than before (standard price was 2700-2800euros, and heavy discounted was near 2400euros). I am not sure how fast these prices will trickle down locally. Maybe there will be some grey market nearing the 2000euros mark, hope so. It is also an indication that the 6 sold a lot less than the 4, by the way.

the full frame will certainly come at some point, but how much will that be? Will they change their body/ergonomics? and why now? it will be making more sense to keep everything similar (a lot more profitable) until they change this generation of Pocket cameras. I will be waiting until September to make a move, but this price drop (which isn't real yet, as all the dealers around here have the same prices 2400-3082, with 2700 the official price from the official BM retailers) is really tempting and makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

that is why I said it, I own 4 NX cameras, getting old, but still 28mgpxl APS-C and all the lenses. I got a P4K already, having 2 Pocket cameras with the ATEM Pro would be an amazing workflow, and I can mix and match all my m43/EF lenses natively. I have missed shooting full frame photos, but I am a full for APS-C/S35 so it's not huge for me, and I am 95% video shooter, since 1999! The price reduction in P6K makes it a no brainer, really - especially if the R5/R6 is 4000/2999. I would be waiting a little bit to read the market, because I canceled 3 full months of work at the begining of the pandemic, so I will probably start from the begining.