Django

There are cost saving measures for sure and of course FF 4K60p will surely overheat under long shooting. But at least is has FF4K60p which neither S5II or even A7IV offer. DPAF2 will also be way superior to S5II AF. Another strong benefit is the fairly low RS (15.2ms in FF / 9.5ms in S35). So for $1500 its imo a great offering. Competition is healthy for us consumers no matter what system you're on.

Yeah some people will probably prefer the absence of IBIS. Lok's channel shows some pretty convincing handheld Vlog footage with lens IS and EIS. No wobble. He also does an overheating test in his oven (!) and the R8 never overheated after an hour so that's also pretty convincing. I was also worried about battery life with the smaller battery but his test shows an hour of recording time in 4K25p which isn't too bad I guess.. plus it has USB-C charging for longer tripod use. Overall this might be the best value FF camera..

Wow the R8 has the same sensor and specs as the R6II including FF uncropped 4K60p in 10-bit Clog3 as well as DPAF2 with subject detect only. It even keeps the handy photo/stills switch. Only thing missing is IBIS. But for a whopping $1K less. That's quite a deal if you can forego IBIS or maybe need a B-cam for your Canon setup. Oh yeah and recording time is supposed to be 2 hours instead of unlimited which is imo a pretty ok compromise. Let's find out about overheating..

Just checked, you can record video in that mode but only in 8-bit. Also don't see the point if its fake open gate. Biggest new feature seems to be EL Zone. Sigma FP/FP-L is still on my radar, sadly the prices went up it seems.

damn I thought they unlocked open-gate for a second there but its only for the director viewfinder mode.

Ok but what happens during recording if you're in continuous AF and you grab the ring to MF? once you let go the focus ring it switches right back to AF and may hunt/pump if it decides to focus elsewhere. That's where toggling on/off AF via quick button config becomes crucial. Can that be done?

Canon lenses usually have AF/MF switches but what's even nicer is most have manual override by simply grabbing the focus ring when lens is in AF. Great for stills but even for video, I always have a quick access dedicated button to toggle AF on/off so I just hit that and pull MF if needed. Not enough cameras allow you to switch AF on/off via button, its just either AF/MF on a switch which I find annoying for video as its almost impossible to remain the camera 100% steady while going back & forth using a switch (I toggle AF/MF a lot). I'm not sure how it works on Panny but the new f1.8 primes have AF/MF switches on them plus: activating AF+MF in the camera’s menu enables the manual focus ring to be used for focusing while the lens is set to AF and the shutter release is held half-pressed. Not a bad solution for stills but for video I guess no direct MF override when lens is set to AF?

Yeah Fuji has the same issue of randomly switching to others when multiple people enter the frame. Totally ruins a shot and drives one mad. The subject-only AF setting of latest gen Canons is definitely a very solid AF feature, I'd call it a game changer even. Panasonic would be wise to try and implement a similar thing.

Speaking of AF but getting back to the S5II, there are couple nice rack focus shots in @hyalinejim footage. The AF is a tad too quick but surely that's a setting but the transition is fluid and decisive. No stepping or pumping which is nice. I'm assuming it was done using tap to focus?

Maybe its the FF aesthetic? Sony FX line remains the most affordable FF sensor cine cams. Look wise I think you can tell this is shot on Alexa, the thick organic IQ, the skin tones, all pretty unique and vastly different to what the FX6 sensor allows. That said I agree the lighting is really great in the interrogation scene, really sets a mood/vibe. Good read overall!

I don't find it tedious or convoluted at all, you just have to learn your AF system, set it up in an intuitive way that works for you and practice. After a while it becomes second nature and can become a very powerful tool. A big part of using AF is also knowing when to use it and when to disengage it, I always have a dedicated button to toggle it on/off. Of course it helps how reliable your AF system actually is, if it randomly hunts or switches to another subject, you are screwed. Again that's why subject detection isn't always the best approach. That said I do shoot MF all the time on manual glass, my FS7 and BMD cams. Hate it for handheld run & gun, love it for controlled scenes / static tripod shots. I do like to shoot wide open on fast primes so yeah critical focus is always a concern of mine. YMMV.

Sounds like some of you have been on Panasonic too long. Soon you're going to be nostalgic about DFD contrast AF. j/k He's done videos about how to master DPAF way back during C100 days. And he's right, just like for photography, AF is a tool that demands technique and control. I have an entire camera configuration and method for video AF. I don't believe the camera should ever be in full control of AF, but rather the other way around. Sure many video AF noobs often just rely on auto subject detection but that is not recommended on a pro level. Even the smartest AI can't guess what you want in focus. The operator should always be in control, even when using latest-gen AF.

Its quite logical really, most Youtubers shoot solo so they value things like face/eye AF. Whereas Hollywood uses manual glass and DPs have dedicated focus pullers. AF is not at all necessary. What's "manual autofocus" by the way?

Right but to also be fair to R6 that test was done before the CLog3 update that did much improve the DR. But overall I agree with you, Canon mirrorless video doesn't have the best DR. This is definitely a clear advantage for Sony/Panasonic and it certainly contributes to overall IQ.

12.3 stops in RAW but visually the C70 in RAW: "About 13 stops can be identified above the noise floor, as well as a 14th and a faint 15th." And yeah when you switch to 10-bit CLOG2: 12.8 stops. Both results are imo mighty impressive for an entry level cine cam. And with the rumoured 24 stop Canon sensor, it seems like they aren't planning to stop here! As for the S1's NR well I'm just going by what cined said in their review: "Looking at the noise floor and the lower steps of the step chart of the Panasonic S1, there is very little noise visible – it looks ultra clean. Although noise reduction was set to the lowest setting, we can assume that there is still a lot of internal noise reduction going on. " "For me, if the image is too clean, it lacks mojo." "I have to say that I wish the video images received would have a bit more “mojo” in them. The Current image is very clean – maybe too clean, at times. " I dunno, maybe firmware diminished the NR? Hope that's also the case with S5ii since someone was just mentioning aggressive NR (hopefully only in standard profiles not VLOG). This is perhaps an extra reason to wait for S5IIX and have ProRes which should normally have the less NR processing.

Actually according to CineD, S1 has about 12 stops and C70 is closer to 13. Also according to them, S1 uses aggressive NR (even when set to -5) to achieve such results. While C70 has virtually no NR with that score. Something extra to consider when comparing metrics. Also, the nice thing about how the DGO sensor works on C70 is very clean shadow information. So low shadow noise, high DR with pleasant roll-off. That's a dream type of sensor for me personally. I'll also take that over dual gain ISO any day.

Not that easy. The Alexa ALEV sensor still holds a lot of secrets. I think Canon are the ones getting close with the DGO sensor inside C70. BM have great CS resources via DaVinci RS. But even they keep trying to improve their CS, now at Gen5. Ok, I think you meant to quote @ade towell I never spoke on that particular comparison.

Huh? How so? Complimenting Panny IQ doesn't mean speaking bad on Canon. From the camera conspiracy tests, the Canon skin tones are still king and beat both A7S3 and S5ii imo. Panasonic may have better DR, sharpness, motion though.. I dunno, I wanna see actual comparisons with same lenses. Sorry, I know a lot of people do seem to like them! I guess that's just the lens snob in me speaking, like I said the resulted footage looks really good, so clearly the lens hits above its price point. The old ND might have something to do with it too! I need to experiment more with filters to rub off the modern clinical photo lens look.

That is a possibility but matching footage from different brands is something I'd rather avoid, even though using EF glass on both platforms should make things bit more consistent. (however color science and overall image processing would still differ). Yeah I mean the S5ii footage hyalinejim provided also convinces me that the 4K footage looks indeed super clean, with a very pleasing organic look. Even though it's only shot with Tamron zoom. Pretty impressive. I would of course be curious to see footage with same EF-L glass shot on R6 vs S5ii for a more definitive comparison.

No that's some great feedback keep it coming! I'm trying myself to decide if I'm sticking with Canon or switching to Panasonic. I think I'd have to wait for the S5iiX though (I like chunky codecs). My concern is still AF. From a lot of the S5ii tests I've seen, it still feels like a first gen PDAF. Initial focus acquisition has this lag and there seems to be the occasional random hunt. And if multiple faces show up it gets very confused. Now no AF is perfect, the R6's had its issues too but R6ii does now have subject only, taken straight from the cinema line (R5 doesn't even have this) which locks on a face and never back-focuses even if the face leaves the frame. That along the low RS, no crop 4K60p and overall CS makes me wanna remain in Canon eco-system. That said, Panasonic has its own merits so looking forward to hearing more feedback, especially compared to Canon. Thanks and congrats on the new purchase.

Agreed, Sony has improved -a lot- but you're right about mixed lighting conditions, this is were Sony always fails miserably. Technically I guess its more a white balance issue but yeah some cameras just handle mixed lighting way better than others. We all remember A7S2 zombie skin tones. Its not a big issue with cinema cams in the higher end because the environment is so well controlled. Shooting RAW WB doesn't even matter. If you're talking about ARRI CS, well then yeah its the best in the world. Everyone else is just trying to copy it, including myself. I'm not a big fan of film stocks to be honest but it often helps rubbing off the digital edge of mirrorless cams so I do use film convert when I'm trying to get away from the dreaded video look. But sometimes I like the video look. Like for shooting BTS, corporate, social media or more docu/news type stuff. Social media clients hate the cinema look, too stylised, comes off as arrogant & overkill.

I did actually try CST with those settings but to be honest was not enchanted by those results. It's all very subjective of course, and I'm not necessarily looking for complete accuracy when grading, although its probably a good place to start so I'll test that further. I think Sony was voted most accurate color science in recent cross-platform tests. Yet in reality they are ironically often the most disliked! Reality isn't always that pretty 😉

@hyalinejim Thanks but I'm not quite sure how to best compare/analyse those charts? From what I can tell the reds are darker and more saturated, the blues are lighter and shift towards purple, the orange looks darker and the cyan brighter, almost vivid. How all that translates in an image I don't know, CS is still kind of a mystery to me. In the sense that perfect accuracy isn't always what you want, real life can be boring, ugly even. CS is supposed to enhance that. Make skin tones look good and even etc. Regardless, it seems pretty clear to me now form working with the files you provided and from the camera conspiracy video comparing S5II/A7SIII/R5, that the biggest issue is red channel is over saturated. That said I like the Panny CS generally speaking. Like I said it kind of reminds me of Leica, which is my favourite. I think the main culprit is really the outdated single conversion LUT.

Mainly the RS but the low bitrate and 4:2:0 might also be less robust than the 4K. Hard to tell with the wideshot train station examples but that's what I suspect. Still a nice option to have.. That's what I was thinking too, or shoot in 4K60p to half the RS. That's what I often do on R6 who also has poor RS. I haven't played much with the HD pixel-pixel files as I noticed the footage looks noisy and soft. They look good to me too but had to tweak them a bit to avoid the red channel sat from boosting red nose syndrome. Yeah those seem like ideal affordable compact primes, as a prime shooter its definitely what I'd go for native lens solutions.

Cool, I'm staying away from the standard Panny LUT. The Varicam ones like "Nicest" seem.. nicer. Overall solid 4K files. Not sure about 6K open gate. Man that rolling shutter, yikes. Gotta stay away from trains!