Django

Many thanks! That's more than I could hope for! Already thrown a few in Resolve, looking good. Aside from the red channel but I already knew that so bringing red down a tad in hue vs sat. What lens was this shot on?

Well color science also evolves generation after generation, but the same old LUTs often remain. Saturated reds is something Leica is famous for so I wonder if this is their influence. It seems like their CS is closer than ever to Panasonics now with L2 image processing.

Still some issues with the red channel vs Sony/Canon.. and he goes through Gamut, CST etc:

Yeah well shooting RAW always helps when doing heavy grading. You can't compare it to 180mbps 6K HEVC. But I hear you, there is something special, something else coming from BMD cams. The image has a thickness, an organic cinematic property, that you just don't find in mirrorless hybrids. I notice it, my clients notice it. That's why we use BMD cams on narrative, high-end advertising etc. That said, the gap is closing. With chunky 10-bit files the grading can be pushed nicely. It's a different look, cleaner/thinner, more digital photo like. It suits plenty of applications. Not everything needs to look super cinematic. Lenses play a big part too. Not too many Alexa, RED, Venice footage using $500 photo lenses. And the bottom line is specs. We're talking compact hybrids with IBIS, PDAF & EVFs. Getting back to Vlog, my first impressions are good. The standard "Vlog to V709" LUT inside Resolve is pretty accurate. Kind of a mild curve (I'm used to more contrast) but its a good starting point. I am surprised at what this little HEVC 4:2:0 codec can hold.

Just saw an update on Cined concerning S5IIX: C4K ALL-I (H), at 800Mbps and needs to be outputted to SSD. C4K ALL-I (L), at 700Mbps and can be recorded internally. • Recording Apple ProRes 422 HQ in HD internally • Record 5.8K Apple ProRes externally to SSD via HDMI or USB

@HockeyFan12 Funny I was just watching his S5ii Tokyo coverage. I'll have a play at that while I await hyalinejim's files. As for the image looking "thin" well we these are rather low bitrate 4:2:0 h265 files. Can't expect the moon. I do expect S5iiX to have thicker image with ALL-I and especially ProRes codec. Speaking of, I'm getting conflicting info concerning S5iiX internal ProRes. Will it be at all resolutions or FHD only?

Excellent!!!

Ok so basically a two-step operation. What's pixel-pixel crop factor in 4K? Does that mean a 1:1 readout?

@Thpriest That's what I was thinking, the 24mm & the 50mm, with crop mode those also give you 35mm & 75mm. Speaking of which how easy is it to switch to APS-C/S35 crop mode? Can you assign a button to punch in&out? Also I notice no stills/video switch and only 3 custom slots. So I guess no independent custom settings?

35mm is what I've shot most photo/video with, followed by 50mm. But these days, if I include iPhone shooting experience, my most used focal length is 28mm.

Ace, gotta love this place! I'd like to see how the 6K 3:2 open-gate holds up, since it's 10-bit 4:2:0. And perhaps compare it to some C4K 10-bit 4:2:2. As for content, I'm not going to be very fussy, whatever is convenient for you. Ideally human subject to test skin tones but any type of daylight street scene would also do fine. Many thanks in advance 🙏

CLog was developed on C300 for indeed 12 stops and CLog2/3 arrived with subsequent C300mk2/3 offering higher sensitivity. They claim up to 16 stops in CLog2 on DGO sensors. I just think its nice to have access to these various log curves depending on what scene you're shooting. The flattest curves often raise the noise floor. Which is why Canon CLog2 is only available on certain models and often only in post when shooting RAW. Anyways I need to find some S5ii Vlog footage to put it through the test. Hopefully some will pop up somewhere. FWIW I've been looking through lot's of S5ii footage on YT and found some I really enjoy CS wise. I see a certain neutrality that reminds me of Leica (no surprise considering the ties and L2 image processing). I'm also a Leica M shooter so really value that CS and I think I'm seeing some of it. Concerning lenses, does anyone here have experience with the Panny L-mount F1.8 primes ? I like a good set of affordable primes and read these have a focus breathing suppression design, smooth exposure and various manual focus ring settings. sounds ideal for video use!

Canon tweaked their CS with the mirrorless line. You have the option when shooting log to choose either original or neutral. I have tons of official C-Log transform LUTs including (non official) model-specific ones . There is quite a big resource around Slog & Clog. I don't follow Sony so closely but they have for sure tweaked and improved their CS. They also provide S-Cinetone derived from VENICE. I guess I'm just kind of surprised that Panny, a company often touted for its cinema specs, has only got one V-Log curve. Even Fuji who's only had log curves in recent cameras has introduced a flatter FLOG2. So I guess my follow-up question would be how does V-Log compare to S-Log3, C-Log2 & FLog2?

Hmm wonder if that means the same holds true for native lenses also? Kinda strange, usually IBIS+OIS = best stabilisation. I'm doing some research on L-mount lenses and it seems very few lenses even have OIS? Few zooms and zero primes. Guess I shouldn't be too worried as Panasonics IBIS has such a good reputation.. Hopefully, I'd rather not have to spend time fixing the curve though. Actually no, Canon & Sony offer a vast amount of conversion sets that fit just about every gamma profile / curve. So its usually just a matter of finding the one that suits your camera model. Also Canon & Sony cameras offer 3 log curves with various color matrix settings. Panasonic just seems to have "VLOG". Across all cameras, is that correct?

No doubt, which is why again I'd love to get my hands on some footage and test it out myself! Switching systems is way too big of a deal to simply rely on someone else's opinion. By the way it's not just Vlog but overall colour science I'm also curious about.

You are the one in that thread that stated the official V-Log to V709 LUT was "half-assed" and that in Resolve color space transform, the conversion brought issues. The rest of thread is people saying how exposing V-log is tricky.. and that "REC709 monitoring is trash on Panasonic". All of that seems very specific to Panasonic / Vlog. Never heard such issues with C-Log / S-log. All Log footage doesn't grade the same, so I'd like to see for myself. Perhaps you could provide some S5ii Vlog footage to test?

That would be me. The 6K 3:2 is the number one appeal. Mainly for multi aspect ratio purposes but also anamorphic use. I am invested in Canon but mostly EF. I'd only need to sell 2 RF lenses, none L so minor financial loss. The IBIS, PDAF and video assist tools all check boxes too so really on paper its a very tempting option. Again, for me, it is how the files are going to look and be treated that concerns me. I can grade Clog & Slog in my sleep but Vlog is a mystery and even threads like this don't inspire confidence: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/

hmm.. but doesn't the Sigma MC-21 adapter kinda invalidate his point? As a Canon user myself, the above AF results on EF adapted lenses are rather impressive and could bait me to switch. I've said it before but the S5ii is the first ever Panasonic camera I've got on my radar. As for GH6, I think its target remains M43 lens lovers. Most of them use manual glass so AF is maybe not as important, and the camera still has some exclusive features such as internal ProRes and the dual gain sensor. I do suspect the very delayed release of S5iiX to be calculated in an effort to avoid cannibalising S5ii & GH6 sales. I find this strategy kinda sneaky. For only $200 extra why would you go with S5ii over S5iiX once both are available? Anyways I look forward in testing out some S5ii Vlog footage. How it grades is really the main question mark I have regarding switching. Hopefully maybe someone here can provide some! 😉

I know PFW sounds impressive but being based in Paris it’s really no big deal, its local work for me. It’s a big scene, I focus on a tiny part of it. Mostly doing BTS stuff and indie shows so no real pressure, I’m rarely even in the pit. Yet still, it’s definitely more intense than what I’m used to. These are situations when gear choices become key and sometimes less is more (a body or two vs three/four). Speaking of runway fashion, I remember you were complaining about the R5’s EVF lag making you miss some shots like during hair flips and what not. It seems you have sorted out those issues but that is one area where R3’s stacked sensor should give ultimate confidence with no lag, fast refresh rates, top AF and that eye-control AF sounds nuts. I just have a hunch R3 would actually be great for fast paced events. It’s another reason why I’m leaning towards it. Getting back to R5C and its poor battery life, its mostly due to the cine OS. All those assist features pump a whole lot of juice, I wish Canon would implement some kind of energy saving feature because it’s kind of a deal breaker. As gt3rs said, the battery grip is the most practical solution, so probably what I’d go for hybrid shoots. But losing IBIS is another big one. That’s two strikes against R5C as main body. C70+R7 sounds like a solid combo. I’d love a C70, have been eyeing it since release. Love the DSLR type form factor. Like I said I was a C100/C200/C300 + EOS combo shooter for years, but shifted to Sony FS7 couple years ago, mainly for chunky 10-bit and because Sony is more of an industry standard for video. I rarely do everything in-house so have to play ball with editors, colorists etc. But now that Canon has finally given 10-bit and compressed RAW to its entry C cams, I might revert back. It kinda sucks being on dual systems even though it's been a good business strategy for me.

No I haven't talked myself into anything yet, still weighing options. My first choice still remains R3 as it ticks off IBIS, battery life, overheat, best AF, vertical grip, 6K RAW compressed and 4K60p oversampled.. only a bit more expensive than a rigged out R5C and a much more elegant solution imo. No more cine features but for critical condition shoots, my atomos could always help handle things. R5C comes in second but no IBIS and poor battery life is a major PITA. So I'd end up rigging R5C, either battery grip + cage or external battery + cage. Add a top handle and a side grip or shoulder kit like in the video you linked and you've got a decent weight/balance rig. Still not IBIS level plus you are no longer that versatile for hybrid video/stills shooting. Yeah lens IS + EIS is always an option but it severely limits my lens use and adds that small crop. Its a workaround but not the most flexible solution. I've gotten so used to shooting FF no crop everything handheld on my R6, that going back to that feels so limiting. I really like shooting handheld on my mirrorless hybrids. And with all kinds of lenses including EF primes with no IS. FWIW I've been shooting Paris FW events this whole week on my FS7, BMD cams and multiple EOS bodies for stills shooting. Tripods, shoulder rigs, gimbals etc. Honestly such a PITA dealing with all that gear on a crazy hectic schedule. Sucks the fun right out of it. I feel like either a R3/R5/R5C plus a monopod could have almost been enough for the job (not including R6ii/R7 as some parts of the job required RAW). I have no idea but keep reading about grading issues such as in this thread here: https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/70778-how-are-you-converting-v-log-to-normal-colour/ Also if I was even considering switching over to Panny it would definitely be the S5iiX I'd want and that's not out until May. The other alternative is Sony since I'm also invested in that lens ecosystem but the only options are FX3 which has no EVF so no good for my style of shooting and A7S3. 12MP stills, 4K max resolution and no internal RAW are too severe compromises though. Crazy because Sony is number one in the industry yet so behind tech wise in the mirrorless world..

Yeah I just looked into it and indeed R5 is also dual ISO but just not officially. On R5C there is a base ISO mode (kinda similar to Sony's EI mode) that locks you to ISO 800/3200 only. Kinda cool. As for the 30mn time limit, yeah that annoying. Canon removed it on R3/R5C/R7/R6ii. Don't forget R5/R6 are just second generation Canon mirrorless. It usually takes that third gen for such quirks to be ironed out. Same with Sony A7S series. I do have leftover R6 batteries (just realised it yesterday when going through camera bag)! But I disagree that the R3 battery is a downside. The LP-E19's hold double the capacity so that means less swapping and less charging which is clutch. I'll take that over multi body battery interchangeability. In the R3 video I posted above, the guy uses a gimbal just fine it seems. Keep in mind the R3 body is mega light despite its size. an R3 is lighter than a R5 + grip! That said I'm sure not any gimbal works with an R3. Yeah the S5II does give you a whole lot for very money. Even has open-gate. But I saw some latest tests and the AF is still a work in progress, you can tell its first-gen PDAF. And yeah whole other lens ecosystem. Also been reading stuff here about Vlog being hard to grade and overall CS issues. This is where Canon really shines imo, you can throw anything at Clog and it always comes out good. To me this is a big pro for R5C. But I'm used to cine cams. I want all those options. You can have the ones you use the most inside My Menu. You can assign buttons for Q&S. Shutter angle alone is fantastic, set it to 180 degree and you no longer have to fiddle with shutter speeds when changing frame rates. Punch-in while recording to check critical focus. WFM, false color etc. On R5/R6/R3 all you have is that histogram that disappears once you hit record. Its a joke for serious work or complex scenes so you have to use an external monitor which adds weight and clunkiness. All of a sudden R5C with an external battery doesn't sound so bad! YMMV of course, as we see above depending on our requirements and user cases a pro can be a con and vice versa. It is interesting to hear how others shoot and view such things though!

@herein2020 I absolutely value your input, many thanks, but it ain't that simple. I've been shooting Canon since 5D mark1 and have had numerous bodies since, including cinema line (C100/C200/C300). I'm not just upgrading blindly from an R6. So I do really value the cine OS features such as focus/exposure tools, LUT support, XF-AVC, RAW Light, anamorphic de squeeze, unlimited recording, TC, smart hot-shoe etc. Those are the video features I'm missing. R6 was just a stop gap because I refused to spend 4.5K at the time for an overheating R5. C70 ticks a lot of boxes but no IBIS, S35, no high resolution, no stills and high price tag. In view of that, R5C is a mix of C70 & R5. The cine features, the fan, FF & 45MP. Downside is no IBIS, no NDs & battery life. The smart-shoe allows for the Tascam XLR unit so that's also a big plus. R5C also has dual iso so although the same sensor, better usage. And 4K60p isn't line-skipped. R5 gives you back IBIS and ok battery life. Still need a grip. No smart-shoe. Potential overheating. It sort of feels dated and not really much of an upgrade from my R6 aside from 8K. Then you have R3. up to 6K60p. No overheat. Pro body. IBIS. Stacked sensor. Best battery life. Killer stills specs. It isn't an easy decision, there is no clear cut winner in everything. And I really just want one body that'll do it best.

Here in EU, LPE19 is 169€ and 2xLPE6NH is 190€. R3 comes with a dual charger and I'd rather charge 2 batteries than 4. R3 is lighter than R5C + grip, has IBIS.. and overall more solid/pro feel. Here's a video from a dude that switched from R5C to R3 and I'm inclined to agree with most of his points although in the end its kind of a toss up:

scratch that about the R5C+grip cage, it exists: https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-camera-cage-for-eos-r5-r6-r5-c-with-bg-r10-battery-grip-3464.html

@gt3rs Thanks for all the info! I actually used the same black mamba cage for my R6, didn't realise it also fit the R5C. However it can't be compatible with the battery grip, which kinda sucks. Battery grip = no cage. I did find a shop that sells the grip for 300€ so cool there are better deals but still 600€ with 3 extra batteries. Of course the benefit for me is vertical control for vertical shooting which again I do a lot (especially stills). But the grip only takes 2 batteries so that's a whole lot of swapping, charging etc. I honestly don't like this solution, too much room for (charge) error, too much swapping which could happen in the middle of an event, missing key moment. So yeah the external batteries seem better suited for long events. The Nano does have USB charging which is cool but yeah mounting it above the cage feels a little obstructive. The Anton Bauer is a lot more elegant imo, and indeed that Kondor D-tap to USB-C adapter/cable looks like an interesting solution as it also frees up your R5Cs battery compartment so you have internal + external power. I agree the cable looks clumsy with that box in between. Also it is backordered (like a lot of products on their website) do you know if they restock often ? Gotta admit this whole battery conundrum is making me lean more again towards R3. I'd just need one extra LP-E19 to last me the whole day.