Django

Maybe if you bought a Z9 before a Z8 you may wanna trade it for the lighter cheaper model but if you buy a Z9 today it is because the extra features and ergonomics of the Z9 appeal to you. Wether it’s for battery life, better heat management, weather sealing, the built in vertical grip, or better balance for long lenses, there are bunch of reasons why a pro would still pick a Z9 and keep it for many years to come. I know if I go Nikon I would be tempted by it over the Z8. Z8+grip I heard is a really clunky solution, the grip really sucks I guess plus it becomes bulkier and heavier than the Z9.

I love rangefinder cameras and my M9+28mm summicron still holds a special place in my photography heart. Reason being I love shooting through viewfinders and that's where the dedicated manual controls for focus, aperture, shutter speed and nowadays ISO become second nature. Its the pure essence of photography. Fuji have definitely nailed this in their X series and the XT's were imo great hybrids. I actually loved the dials for video too. Compact rangefinder style cameras are also discrete and inconspicuous which is fantastic for candid photography and places where video may not be tolerated. They're basically the absolute counterpoint to a sport DSLR, Z9, cine cam. That being said, there are many applications where this may not be ideal cameras. For fast action scenes, run & gun, hybrid video or even vertical portraits etc I'm always going to prefer a DSLR/mirrorless with snappy AF, custom buttons and settings, vertical grips, tilt screens etc. So it makes sense to me having both types of cams in your arsenal. The Zf is interesting. Spec wise it does feel much closer to a Z6 than a Z8/Z9. Video might look similar on Youtube once its all compressed but the Z8/Z9's 8K60p RAW or even FF 4K60p ProRes HQ will give you so much more headroom in post than the Zf's cropped 4K60p h26x. All that said, I also have some concerns about some Z8 shortcomings, namely overheating. I hate to spend that kind of money only to feel limited by that. Especially considering I plan on shooting 8K a lot. So that means I'd have to go with Z9.. but then I'm dealing with a brick again, a camera that's big/heavy and intimidating. Not to mention pricey. .. so I'm actually leaning towards R5C now mainly for the peace of mind of having a fan guaranteeing zero overheating. Yet in a compact mirrorless format that I can rig up or rig down. There are couple other specific features pushing me in that direction as well. I haven't yet ruled out the Z8 but for my intense 8K usage I need a reliable all day tool.

So I got a hold of some R5C XF-AVC files and was very pleasantly surprised at how well they could be handled on my Intel iMac Pro. Just as good as ProRes really so that kind of levels the codec battle in between these two platforms. Also looking closer at R5C it has some good C line features such as Cine gamut on the log side that gives a nice cinematic image and wideDR. On the HFR side you can dial-in precise fps to conform to 24p for subtle slomo (like 30fps to 24fps). AF has the very handy face only that sticks and doesn't hunt when the subject turns around or disappears from the frame. The big minus of the R5C is battery life but with a power bank is easily worked around and the big bonus of the R5C is the fan allowing non-stop recording in all modes and zero overheating. Today I'm kind of leaning towards R5C as my next cam purchase just because some of the pros really tick my boxes more even though overall Z8 probably has superior IQ, i/o and specs.

I'm already pretty much set on Z8/Z9 as my next camera purchase but if they add open gate w anamorphic support, this platform will check every spec on my ultimate hybrid camera wishlist!

- A new log curve extremely close to LogC4, was created for N-RAW to maximize encoder efficiency and record the sensor’s original color space. - 8.3K 120fps burst video mode, shooting only 2.5 seconds. It uses the same high-speed readout mode as still photos. - Anamorphic Lens Support. Provides FX-format 45Mp Open Gate 3:2 30fps RAW video recording. Supports 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x de-squeezed display function.

You assume correctly. Chariots of Fire was produced and recorded by Vangelis in his Nemo Studio in London. And it was pretty much all analog aside from a Lexicon 224 reverb. Recording was printed on Ampex 1/2" tape machine. DBX noise reduction was involved. Full details and recording equipment list can be found here: https://www.soundonsound.com/people/vangelis-recording-nemo-studios FWIW my background is actually in studio recording. Not as an engineer but as a player and back liner of vintage equipment both outboard and electronic analog and mechanical instruments. I've also had a DJ career and still hold on to a couple hundred (thousand?) rare 12" vinyl releases. So yeah I don't wanna argue either (analog vs digital is an old ever lasting debate and today I do use digital audio tools mainly from Universal Audio) but lets just say I'm pretty vested in the subject matter too 😉 .

CD vs Vinyl DR is an old debate and it isn’t as simple as that when it comes down to it. Lossless wars aside, many other variables come into play. Here is a study that comes up with a more nuanced approach to what you are stating: https://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/dynamic-comparison-of-lps-vs-cds-part-4 ..in any case this is an analog vs digital debate that can be transposed to film but is far less subjective and entirely different than the fps topic started here..

While the C70 is a great compact cine cam, the fact it is RF S35 means you need to buy very expensive FF RF glass that you won't even be fully exploiting, unless you adapt with the speed booster. On the flip side, the FX6 is FF only so that locks you into FF glass. I really think both Canon & Sony need to release above +4K resolution FF cine cameras next so you can enjoy both FF & S35 native lenses. Currently the mirrorless offerings are way more flexible in that regard.

Actually if you wanna get technical, a properly mastered high-quality vinyl LP has much more DR than CD or even lossless codec file. That's why audiophiles respect vinyl so much. Take a look at these numbers from the DR database for Daft Punk's RAM album (the reference for mastering): and FYI, if you take care of vinyl, dust it off before playing and use a high-end player and cartridge, you will have zero crackle, pop, wow, flutter. Its like saying that analog film is all noisy and dusty. Vinyl is like IMAX 70mm.. with a proper scan it will be superior to your 2K/4K/8K digital footage. Analog is still very popular in audio production (much more so than in photo/film industry) and for good reason. And while its true that some hipsters buy into analog only for the retro/cool factor, its just as ignorant to claim analog inferior to digital. If you know what you're doing it most certainly is not.

Awesome, thanks for confirming that can be done, very handy indeed! Here is another quick question: how do you set up that hi-res zoom function? last time I was on a Z8 I couldn't figure it out. I activated it in the video menu but couldn't find how to set it to a Fn button or anything else really. Its a very interesting feature I'd like to try, also can you set the zoom speed like have it zoom in slow or fast?

If you don't mind checking and letting me know, I can't seem to find that info online or in the manual. Would be totally awesome though if you could store specific video resolution, frame rate, shutter speed, log/profile, codec etc in a custom bank and recall them on the fly with indeed the Fn buttons! Fingers crossed that is a possibility..

Are these custom banks on the Z's for video settings too or only photo? Basically can you have custom banks like A: 4K24p ProRes, B: 4K120p, 😄8K60p RAW etc? Those are so practical for quick codec/frame rate switching when on the field. If not, that's a big plus on the Canon side (although R5C only has them for photo mode as video mode uses the cine OS).

Valid point, is the battery life that bad on Nikon bodies? I mean if it was bad on Z6 then its going to be horrible on a Z8? I don't quite realise as I didn't push the Z8 by any means when I tested it. Again using a USB-C external power solution is always an affordable option to get more juice out of it (same goes for R5C) but yeah Z9 I'm sure gives total peace of mind. I shoot a lot of vertical for stills as I mainly do portrait work so maybe Z9 is the body I should be considering if I go Nikon.

Yeah don’t quote me on overheating, I didn’t push the Z8 by any means so yeah that’s a real valid concern. But the fact it has 2 USB-C ports, one for power and one for data is pretty dope, and if using a powerbank extends battery life and circumvents overheating then that’s killing two birds with one stone. Z9 is of course the better choice when it comes to battery life and overheating plus it’s lighter than Z8+battery grip. It’s definitely a solid alternative for a pro shooter, and for all I know I may go that route. I’m just afraid of the weight. Z8 is already up there but you can rig it up or strip it down. I guess I’ll have to try a Z9 next but I’m close to pulling trigger on Z8.

Being in a similar dilemma but having actually used both R5/R5C & Z8 here are my thoughts. R5 pros: Good battery life, IBIS, AF, 8K30p, RAW cons: h26x, low DR, sub-sampled 4K60p R5C pros: 8K60p, XF-AVC, dual base ISO, Cine line features (LUT support, assist tools etc), active cooling. R5C cons: poor battery life (better in latest firmware but still not great), no IBIS Z8 pros: 8K60p, compressed RAW, ProRes, stacked sensor, lockable IBIS. 2X zoom/crop modes. Z8 cons: aside from some AF issues nothing major! Right now as far as specs, the Z8 is in my opinion the clear winner. Side by side, the IQ on the Nikon is substantially cleaner (less noise) and has superior DR. With ProRes, IBIS and a fast stacked sensor its just a really powerful all-rounder. My only gripe with it is the AF isn't as sticky than Canons and with portrait stills it often misses the eye if you shoot wide open with fast glass. Color wise, Nikon is more neutral and less contrasty. This is good if you like to grade/paint. Canon is better if you want SOOC results and the skin tones are the best in the game. C-log is more filmic than other logs including N-log but C-log3 on the R5/R5C has less DR than N-log. Lens/system wise is where things get specific and personal. Different rendering & price points with native lenses. But where Z-mount wins is that you can adapt pretty much any glass to it, including EF. RF is a lot more closed so if you wanna adapt, Nikon is the way to go. RF has some fantastic unique lenses but they are so expensive! FWIW I've been shooting Canon since the 5D mark 1. C100/C200. EOS R, R6. I'm a Canon guy. I'm seriously considering switching to Nikon after trying out the Z8. The 8K/4K IQ is simply stunning and with ProRes it cuts like butter on my intel iMac Pro. I could adapt all my current lenses: EF, E-mount, Leica M and Nikkor AI-S. And the new S line lenses are pretty great too. Either way you can't really go wrong, I got amazing results out of the R5/R5C. You just have to be more careful with exposure because of the limited DR and they aren't low-light champs either. Ergonomics and menus are also better with Canon, its a more intuitive shooting experience. And you can get away with minimum tweaking in post, slap a LUT and you're good if you're on fast turnover.

Thanks. FWIW I'm not yet a Nikon user just doing research on the Z8. The menu system is so dense and confusing to me, I had to skim through that video. Its great there are so many custom options, it just sucks the UI is like a Y2K Nokia with all the nested list items. Anyways so there are 4 custom banks (A,B,C,D) I'm assuming they are also present for video settings.. is that an extra 4? Are they easy to recall, I don't think he goes over how to quickly access them?

Yeah well its funny because I initially had mixed feelings about the Z8 but it has really grown on me, especially the files it produces. Really clean footage, easy to work with. Good DR, snappy AF. All kinds of codec options. High-resolution stills. Basically a workhorse camera. Will get even better when the LoISO update gets implemented. The R3 has imo the best ergonomics. and the video specs are quite nice too albeit not that flexible with either 6K in RAW only or 4K h26x. And 24MP stills. DR on Canons is also kinda mid, especially with no Clog2. The Z8 gives you 45MP stills and 8K, 5K, 4K in RAW. UHD & FHD in ProRes & 8K, UHD & FHD in h26x. Plus 2X crop modes and digital zoom. All for about two thousand less than an R3. It's just much more bang for the buck imo. Plus the Z mount opens up compatibility to my entire various mount lens collection. Tilty screen which I miss. And lockable IBIS which I don't think anyone else is doing. It's almost a no-brainer for me personally. Paired with a Zf for more casual shooting, that would be a sick combo. The Nikon Z f1.8 primes are also super silent and optimised for video with minimal breathing, compact and fairly priced. So after so much hesitation on where to go next I think I'm pretty set on Nikon after all.

Just thought I'd mention I've revisited the Z8 with now better understanding of how the camera operates (read the manual beforehand) and of how to work with N-log (using color management bypassing the awful official LUTs) and well I guess all I can say is it is my new favourite camera! 4K ProRes HQ on an SD card edits like butter on my ageing iMac Pro and the IQ gives so much room for grading. Neutral & Flat profiles are also great SOOC profiles and 8K60p is of course top notch and I haven't yet even explored RAW. I guess ultimately the switch back to Nikon would be quite effortless as Z mount has smart adapters for my Sony & Canon EF glass and even my Leica M glass. Alongside my old Nikkor AIS, every single lens I own could be supported! I do have a question for Z8/Z9/Nikon users: does the camera have custom banks like C1/C2/C3 etc where you can have various custom settings like codec/frame rate/resolution settings and recall them quickly?

"Global Shutter" kind of feels like a buzzword from Sony marketing doesn't it? And the usual suspects on Youtube sure are running with it.. "FIRST GLOBAL SHUTTER CAMERA" "This Changes EVERYTHING". "ZERO DISTORTION!!!". I mean cmon if you wanted to avoid distortion up until now as a stills shooter you could simply use mechanical shutter. And yeah 99% of cinematographers use CMOS sensor based cameras with minimal RS. Again not trying to downplay the tech advancement of this new sensor but it ain't really the game changer revolution it is hyped up to be. The read-out speed sure seems incredible but I personally can't imagine combing through 120fps of RAW images. I'm not even sure pro sporting events shooters have that luxury in their time race with FTP transfers. So who exactly is the A9 target? Wealthy amateurs that shoot birds/golf/tennis? Videographers doing 360 degree rotations at 100mph? Serious question.

Yeah while GS in a FF consumer camera is a nice tech feat, I'm not sure many people will be rushing to "upgrade" to a $6K 24MP/4K h26x camera. Clearly this is a niche action/sports hybrid mainly aimed at still shooters. Sony is smart when it comes to marketing and they put this out just ahead of the Summer Olympics. But in reality for video shooters if you absolutely need a GS cine cam, the Komodo already exists and does up to 6K with ProRes/REDcode etc. And for your average hybrid shooter, I doubt they would really notice the difference with the already fast 8ms RS of the A7S3/FX3. And those have better DR & low-light for half the price. Personally, I find the Z8/Z9 are still much better rounded hybrid packages with 8K60p, RAW/ProRes, 45MP. And fast stacked sensor readout speeds that are sufficient for most demanding situations. Don't get me wrong, FF GS is a major tech accomplishment and I'm sure there is a market for the A9iii, I just don't think the entire package and price point is going to be that enticing in the already crowded FF segment once the hype does down.

What's a little sus to me is all the "impressive" videos shared in this thread seem to be from LUT vendors. These videos are more ads for grades than the iPhone 15. I mean who knows the time/effort/power grades used to achieve these results. Not to mention the rigs, gimbals, reflectors and what not that are used. Its all fair game but I guess what I'm trying to say is it isn't a realistic look at what you're going to get out of the iPhone 15 SOOC or even using your average grading skills. Its like the giant "Shot on iPhone" billboard campaigns you see in major cities with amazing pics: ..yet you know your average iPhone pic never looks as good, they've all been crazy boosted in Photoshop. In the end it is just another iPhone with similar specs, IQ and caveats as last years model. They added log which is great for grading your footage but nothing really that revolutionary especially if you're not that heavy into grading.

Yeah I agree with the above, no matter these improvements at the end of the day it is still a smartphone with all its caveats. No way does it actually compete with rigged mirrorless or cine cams with quality glass, filters etc in actual use. So many limitations. I tested the iPhone 15 Pro myself the other day at the Apple store, shot some log footage and then airdropped it to my iPhone to test it out in Resolve. The result was rather sub-par, mushy IQ with lots of noise. I'm assuming this is mainly due to the indoor light conditions and the camera app shooting at high ISO. Notice how all the examples in this thread are shot outside in perfect bright daylight conditions. Shoot indoors with average lighting or on a dim day/evening and the IQ falls apart. That to me has always been the real downer with tiny sensor cameras. They need perfect lighting. And no ProRes/Log can fix that. At which point you may as well let the iPhone do its computational magic and fix the image!

Don't forget the Pocket/BMCC6K cameras all have gyro data that result in solid stabilisation capabilities when used in tandem with Davinci. I've been pretty impressed with that "surprise" feature launched about a year ago. And now with FF 6K open gate, the crop applied shouldn't even be that noticeable. All the footage so far is test footage from early access users so it makes sense it is all shot & delivered in full sensor highest resolution 3:2 open gate. Its kind of the stand out feature of this new camera too so not surprised one bit they are putting that forward. I know I'd pretty much be shooting 3:2 open gate exclusively with such a camera for all the reframing capabilities it allows.

6K Open Gate handheld : FF BRAW looking great in this footage!

The nice thing is on the grey market there is less than 500 bucks difference in between Z8 & Z9. And second hand Z9 might even be cheaper than a new Z8! Ergonomics and battery life aside, the Z9 doesn't overheat AFAIK. And has a few extra specs. Superior build quality too. Just seems like the more pro option for not substantially more than a Z8. If weight isn't a concern of course. I'm still considering switching back to Nikon myself tbh. On paper the Z8/Z9 have almost everything: 8K60 RAW, ProRes, 45MP, battery life, stacked sensor, crop modes.. its really just missing open-gate and LUT support. But ProRes is a big one to me since my iMac Pro doesn't like 10-bit h26x files. In practice my short time with a Z8 was a bit of a mixed bag. The menu system drives me nuts, lots of OOF shots too because the eye-AF focuses on the eye lashes bit too much imo. Video AF while good was a bit jumpy but that could be settings, there are so many. As for the native lenses.. while they have good specs and performance, its true they are a bit clinical, lack character compared to RF/EF. But maybe that's just confirmation bias. They are smooth and silent which is great. And just like with Canon you can always adapt native Nikon F-mount glass, and even better Z-mount does open up adapting my EF, Sony Zeiss E-mount lenses as well as my Leica M & Nikkor AI-S glass. That is what is really pushing me towards going Nikon. I'm curious about that adapted performance, if Andrew could share his experience with that E-mount Megadap adapter it would be great! Because in the end it really is about the lenses.