Django

They should just retire the non Pro 6K at this point imo. Confusing lineup with so little differentiating the 6K G2 & 6K Pro.

I can deal with no playback, but no Live View + No playback? Is that how it really was (I forget its been so long)? So what you're basically shooting from the optical viewfinder or guesstimating focus? metering exposure etc? If so that's actually good for skills (its why I still love shooting film for stills) but damn thank goodness for "modern comfort" as well!

damn got excited for a second reading the thread title but yeah what a snooze announcement..

Yeah its pretty much supply & demand but also its a camera that cost $16K when released and some owners are probably more reluctant to "dump" it for peanuts. The C300mk2 is still imo a great older cam as is the FS7. Its actually a camera on my current (Canon system) upgrade list. The C300mk2 has that one elusive codec that would be my perfect default go-to: 12-bit 4:4:4 2K Clog2 internal. That codec alone places the C300mk2 the closest to ARRI's ProRes 4444 XQ. The FX6 is also FF (no speed booster needed) and has that game changing E-ND. That said the FS7 is still above class (FX9 is its replacement) and is the only cam I know that has the native ENG shoulder mount with extended arm config. Not for everyone nor for every situation but I love the ease of use and comfort of that setup and the output it gives.. here is an old pic I found on google of Andrew at photokina during release !

OP already has a fast lens: Zeiss 50mm F1.4. Paired with a A7S / A7S2 it would do wonders in low light, I know, I had that exact combo. For AF lens, the Sony 50mm F1.8 would only add an extra $200.. another reason why I'd go FF Sony rather then Fuji on such a tight budget.

The 8-bit codec was plain weak. And the RAW had massive files. The 4K was also very soft and not in that good soft but detailed cine way. EF so almost no adapting or focal reducer. The body itself was very nice but I just ended up still using the FS7 9.5 times out of 10. Got almost no use of it, bought it right before the price drop and lost so much selling it virtually new. Worst investment ever for me basically. Crazy to think my R6 absolutely destroys it IQ wise. The FS7 still holds its own. I've bought it twice now. Such a workhorse. This of course kinda makes me doubt going C70 (even though I'm leaning towards it) over FX6.

@webrunner5 I have an iPhone 13 lol.. night mode just uses slow exposure trickery, nothing revolutionary.. but hey let me lift that 1DC paper weight artefact off your shoulders, I will give it a good home I promise !

smartphones are still terrible at low light. all that AI stuff is horrible. shooting manual is cumbersome. I mean I get it, they're great point & shoots for daytime snapshots posted on social media. We use them for that every day. But if you're actually a fan of photography as an art and character lenses I'd still recommend even the most cheap oldest DSLR/MILC.

Everybody's got a decent smartphone these days. I can understand wanting something superior even if your an amateur shooting family & travel. He's got a Contax Zeiss 50mm F1.4 that's one of my favourite lenses in the world, lets cut the guy some slack. I maintain that a Sony A7III is probably the best suited choice. It's not a camera I would ever buy but within that budget and his requirements it totally makes sense. As for IBIS, its totally unnecessary for your regular point & shoot photography needs. That said, for video it can really help for locked handheld shots. The tiny XT3 will produce shaky handheld footage. I'd recommend an XH1 over it for the IBIS alone if going the Fuji route. Cheaper too.

Thanks but its really not that impressive given the capabilities of these cameras. I can't agree with you that the sub $10K mirrorless field is mainly targeted at social media content. Flagship mirrorless models like R3/Z9/R5C/A7S3/FX3/GH6/S1H/XH2S and BMD 6K Pro are oriented towards a bunch of other pro video applications including corporate, documentary, news, sports, events, behind the scenes, indie cinema, music videos etc. It's been like that for a couple years really (5D3, A7S2 and BMD really changed the game). Of course the cameras are always rigged to fit such demands, which is why I said the camera body alone isn't the whole picture. And that's also when cameras like the FS7/FX6/C70 etc can also make better sense than rigged up mirrorless. The R5 overheating was debunked as artificial timers. That's not to say the camera doesn't heat up in 8K/4K120 and oversampled 4K60/30 but the issue was exaggerated by these artificial timers. R6 doesn't have an 8K sensor by the way and overheats as well. Clearly the thermal management on that generation of Canons isn't the best (wether its conservative artificial limitations or not). So in FF you're pretty much left with R5C & R3 only as your non overheating options. One lacks IBIS and the other costs $6K. This is indeed where the R7 may be tempting. Or wait for the next FF R series.. Canon seem like they're on a release roll. They really wanna grab users to sell their RF lenses now that EF is phased out. I use an agency these days for new clients. They call/email and I say yes or no. Of course this type of service takes a hefty commission but I hate marketing/prospecting especially post-COVID as the competition is hungry and fierce in my scene. Clients do bids and all kinds of shenanigans which can be a huge stress and colossal waste of time when deals don't go through. Still not earning near what I used to so times are hard which is another hurdle towards upgrade path. I use what I have for now and rent/hire extra when I can. I made some poor purchase decisions in the recent past (C200) so I'm really being careful and observing where the market is going.

Not for that particular lens but he also specified: Sony A7 III + 28-70mm f/3.5-5.6 OSS AF in video: keeping in focus a 3-year-old kid. They do but his budget seems super limited and focal reducers are often three to four times the price of an adapter. Just to be clear, I much prefer the image of Fuji also as well as the camera interface itself but yeah the Sony AF & IBIS will surely be more useful in this user case.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me, as I haven't used ML RAW since so many years ago. @mercer is the right person to ask. Also I have to agree with the others, it is a hack and hence rather convoluted to use. You have to find the right settings to not brick it and then you only have a couple seconds of shooting time really. I guess at some point I got the whole thing down and could shoot somewhat reliably with it but that was many many builds ago. No clue what the current situation is. The 14-bit output is phenomenal of course but you need to know how to unpack the footage etc. No way would I recommend going that route for "amateur use - family & travel". Not sure I'd recommend the XT3 either. For a 3-year old you're going to want robust AF & IBIS can't hurt. Plus he wants to adapt his Contax Zeiss 50mm. So FF is the better option. A7III seems like indeed the right choice for those particular requirements.

R7 is a smaller APS-C sensor and R3 is a 2.5x bigger body so both have better thermal management. But ok I was not aware of the theory of IBIS being removed for heat protection. If so that's kinda lame but R5C is after all just a tweaked R5 not an entire redesign. R3 & R7 do overheat in certain modes by the way, just nowhere as bad as R5/R6. I understand your point of view however you shouldn't assume all of us are doing social media content that ends up viewed on smartphones. I do a lot of high-end corporate work that ends up proofed by clients on 5K iMacs and often viewed on big screens & projectors in conferences, trade shows and what not. The clients have really high standards and my competition here in Paris delivers super high quality. I also do a lot of chroma keying, 3D integration, heavy grading & the occasional TV broadcast all of which benefit if not require 10-bit 4:2:2. +4K high resolution is also more & more useful for cropping, my editors always embrace it. The good news is that most mirrorless cameras now deliver high-resolution, pro codecs, RAW etc. Its now possible to get cine cam results out of prosumer cameras. So while all this may be marketing and overkill for some, it isn't for everyone. That being said, I'm not slaved to upgrade path. My 2014 FS7 still serves me good and the R6 is a mid-level camera. I do have access to a BMD 6K Pro for anything more high-end and rent/hire cine cam/DPs if/when the budget allows. Of course there is so much more than just the camera body itself to ensure a successful project and that should also be reminded. Yeah its like anything. My former career was in music and performing in front of crowds was quite a hurdle at first but after some time became second nature. I actually believe that having some apprehension isn't necessarily a bad thing, it keeps you a bit on your toes. Once that's gone, you can become lazy/bored/jaded and not perform at your best. that's when for me its time to switch gears. I still have my 5D mk1 and love the output. D750 is a workhorse, it's the camera that got me to switch back to Nikon for a few years. Most pleasure I get these days is from my 2009 Leica M9. So yeah imo, stills cameras peaked a long time ago and the switch to mirrorless is not necessarily an upgrade hence why a lot of pros I know still stick to DSLRs. Optical viewfinder, the ruggedness, battery life, even the off-sensor AF confidence of crosspoints is superior. The only real benefit of mirrorless is weight.

@MrSMW Looks like you've figured how to make the system work for you. For me shooting video at plus F8 is not a compromise that would work, especially under lowlight conditions. I shoot fast primes only so things like continuous eye-AF and tap to track are a god send when shooting wide open. But hey that's not to dog on other systems, we managed for years before DPAF and I still love shooting manual on Leica M. I just know that in a fast paced, unpredictable and exhausting +15 hour setting such as a wedding, I'd like the most flexible robust system there is but that's just me. I'm not a pro wedding shooter, only done it a handful of times and found it again rather stressing and exhausting, albeit very rewarding once you get through it! @Kisaha Yes I truly believe Canon are back with a very solid camera lineup. Within your budget may I also suggest taking a look at the new XH2S. It has excellent video features (6K open-gate, ProRes internal, IBIS, eye-AF, great DR & low RS) and excellent thermal management with an external fan option for extreme heat conditions such as yours.

@MrSMW By the way this makes me wonder how do you deal with Panny's poor DFD AF both for stills & video on something as demanding as a wedding? Spray & pray? If I was still shooting weddings on a daily grind I'd probably go 1DX3/R3 or Z9. Plus maybe a Fuji or Leica for candids.

Sounds intense dealing with 5/6 camera bodies but wedding shooting is an intense field (in a way the most stressful for me considering the expectations and chaos ratio). It's also beautiful, emotional etc. Here in Paris, I still see Canon used by the majority of wedding photogs (a lot are still on 5D/7D/1DX2/3 DSLRs). Videography: Sony (A7S3/FX3/A9/A1). Hybrid is still kind of an unestablished domain with everyone choosing its own camp it seems. Pros are always a bit surprised/curious with my Canon mirrorless. It's still a very CaNikon DSLR/Sony dominated scene.

@Attila Bakos Dunno, here is the page dedicated to the new sensor: https://fujifilm-x.com/fr-fr/products/x-trans-cmos/ What I wonder is if they have finally found a way to fix those false color issues plaguing Xtrans that we talked about couple months ago? does this point give promise: Arrangement of G pixel on all diagonal lines G pixels are placed in all diagonal lines. It improves the accuracy of diagonal high-frequency image detection and color interpolation

Well I'm quoting this from cined's RAW update lab test performed just last month: "In XF-AVC Long GOP C-Log 2 (from 60-120 frames per second) the dual gain output is not active and we loose about 1 stop" They proceed with full-on charts subbed: Waveform plot of the Xyla21 chart using frame rates > 60 fps with the C70 (C-Log 2) Looks like it only applies to 60 above in Clog2. Maybe its using S&Q though which uses additional processing to slow down in cam? How does 8K affect IBIS? R5 has both. Also if 8K drains battery but you have no interest in 8K, just avoid shooting 8K and save battery. Problem solved. As for the editable codec, well R5C is the only non Cine cam that has XF-AVC. I understand no IBIS is the deal breaker for you, that said the irony to me is that you chose C70 in the end, a camera which also does not have IBIS !? Like I said, we all have different requirements and indeed definitions of hybrid. Mine isn't necessarily video centric but most of my gigs are either video or photo. And when I do have "hybrid" sessions, they rarely require me to have to flip from one mode to the other in a split second. For gigs that may require that, I simply bring along one of my numerous extra camera bodies. Its a better solution anyways because that way I can have different focal length lenses already set up. Changing lenses will take more than 8 seconds so regardless if you need that split second readiness that's the way to go imo. ..seems like you agree. Most wedding photographers I know have 2 to 3 camera bodies. And all the photo/video hybrid wedding shoots I've done, we were at least two shooters dividing duties. In such configurations, where you have multiple camera bodies and/or multiple shooters, I don't see how the R5C's 8 seconds mode switch is going to be such a big issue. I take it you were shooting last Saturday? (I'm also in France) What a day.. FWIW the R5/R6 are actually magnesium-alloy internal chassis, with the R5 having painted magnesium-alloy shell with some polycarbonate zones and the R6 all exterior polycarbonate panels bolted to the exterior. This isn't any regular plastic, and has none of the issues associated with molecular dehesion that regular plastics suffer from. It retains its colour, is amazingly lightweight, possesses unique electrical resistance, resists thermal transmission, is UV resistant and offers additional impact resistance and is hard to scratch. For this reason, many actually consider the R6 superior build to the R5 that scratches easily. No metal exterior also means no hot handling points in extreme weather conditions like those you're describing. Like I've said I've used it shooting firemen in a state of the art fire simulator in Vendée (first simulator of this type in France) with temperatures reaching 600 degrees C !! Now obviously I did not take my R6 directly inside the simulator during the exercise (I did take an iPhone up to about 200 degrees, and it survived recording for several minutes!) but the R6 was used just outside with bursting flames and still very hot temps and the overheat warnings never came on nor did it feel hot to the touch aside from the dials. By the way, when the warnings do come on, it always seems timer based. All that being said, screw overheating. My next camera purchase will be for sure a no time limit, no overheat limit camera. But not necessarily full magnesium either for the reasons stated above.

Well we all have different requirements & deal breakers but calling the R5C mediocre is pretty extreme. No IBIS for photography has never been a problem for me personally. If I'm shooting lowlight I'll use fast glass, crank up the ISO or use a flash. There's always sticks for long exposure. For video work its a nice convenience for locked handheld shots but the EIS + OIS isn't a bad compromise either. For anything more serious: mono/tripod, gimbal. I just don't see lack of IBIS as that big of a downer. YMMV. Battery wise you can always get the battery grip or use a bottom plate screw-on power base with dummy battery which is a much more elegant solution than your basic external power banks: I guess my point is when there's a will there's a way. I find the R5C a very interesting product that merges C-line & EOS line perfectly. Only thing missing to me would be ND's but no hybrid seems to have done it yet. R3 is a dope camera but the price is ridiculous if you're not a sports/action photog. We're talking Komodo money. You shoot a lot in 60p no? Beware as in XF-AVC Clog from 60p to 120p the dual gain output is not activated. Cine just did an updated lab test with the new RAW update: About 13 stops can be identified above the noise floor, as well as a 14th and a faint 15th. IMATEST shows 12.3 stops at a signal to noise ratio of 2 (SNR), and 14 stops at SNR = 1. Also, in the middle graph above the blue “14” line about 3 additional stops are exhibited. Wow! Now, as we have reached already 8 stops of exposure latitude – the maximum we have seen so far with all cameras in the lab with one exception, the Arri ALEXA Mini LF (having 10 stops of exposure latitude).

I use gimbals, mono/tripods even with IBIS cameras. IBIS is useful but it isn't magic. I'll take the camera that doesn't overheat over the others if given the choice. Plus all the C-line video features like LUT import, WFM, shutter angle, S35/S16 crop modes, anamorphic desqueeze etc.. That said, I'm leaning towards C70 (+ R6). The NDs, battery life, audio & DGO sensor being more useful to me than 8K.

What about the Fuji LUTs for Canon Log?

The ND adapter is expensive but you can use the regular 100€ EF to RF adapter to save money. I understand it's a problem on PC but the codec edits fine on any current Mac including the $999 MacBook Air. I also wouldn't say no one asked for 422. 422 has double the colour info of 420 and really shows when you push a grade or do chroma keying. there is a reason why its a broadcast standard. As for 8K, overkill for most users but nice to have on-board, I would definitely make use of it for cropping alone. Again R5C is really the model to look at for hybrid shooters. No overheat and all the C-line video features including the XF-AVC codec that edits across all platforms.

R6 overheats less than R5 and when it happens there is a mode that'll let you keep shooting: FHD. Not ideal of course but the FHD is actually quite good. Obviously if money is no object: R5C is the way to go. That said if FF isn't an absolute requirement the R7 could be a better choice than R6 as far as overheating. Well I think the decision makes sense in that CLOG is much more useful in 10-bit 422 than any lower quality setting. With any recent Mac (+M1) it edits perfectly fine. Definitely a problem though for older machines, you'll need to upgrade. Interesting that your C70 footage doesn't behave the same. I wonder why that is? is it not also 10-bit 4:2:2 h265? While I agree with you, there simply aren't many mirrorless systems out there that rival with the good old magnesium pro DSLRs. And obviously the cheaper the model, the cheaper the camera build. That said, I've had zero issues with my R6. It handles well, is responsive, and despite a lighter feel it is solid, has survived being knocked over tripods and it's been brought into pretty extreme/harsh conditions shooting with firemen, snow, seawater etc. FWIW I've had camera failures with Nikon, Fuji & Sony. Never Canon. Obviously I'd feel much much more comfortable with an R3/1DX3 for those types of shoots but then again the R6 keeps on ticking for me so I keep pushing back the upgrade path (which is always good because new cameras keep coming out). I haven't held an R7 but it appears somewhat on par with the rest of the lower/mid R range. I don't like the thumbwheel around the joystick.. but hey if you're upgrading from a Rebel T6 then it should def be a step up.

We've all been there, that said I try and strive to do more than "good enough" these days. Maybe its because my scene is very competitive since post-COVID (videographers are hungry), so that keeps me on my toes. Also my clients are more and more savvy when it comes to video, phones can do a lot these days and they pay for results that show. The infamous "cinematic" term gets thrown often. That doesn't mean shooting RAW anamorphic (although I'd like to give it a shot in near future) but I mainly shoot with primes (Canon L, Zeiss & vintage Leica) and spend time grading (to the point where I now charge extra budget for that). As for details vanishing on social media/smartphones, that's true but shooting vertical may be an interesting option to make most of the limited display real-estate. The C70 is one of the only cameras out there that has a vertical mode. Open Gate is also good for this but not an option here.

I'm not a fan of digital sharpening. Makes the image look cheap video. If a lens/sensor is soft just let it be. All I'm saying is the slight oversample of the R6 just outputs that extra resolve detail from my L glass which is really nice. Its not like its a radically sharp 6K/8K image either. You can also counteract softness of the C70's 4K with indeed sharper lenses than the EF 24-105 which brings me to the next point.. Using the SB with EF glass is great, especially for that FF look and extra stop.. but the SB adds weight imbalance but also adds glass which softens the image and can result in ugly flares in direct or backlit scenarios. This is where an RF lens like the 35mm F1.8 comes clutch. Its super compact, has superior IS than EF as it uses extra gyro info so excellent for handheld, is optically superior to EF adding that missing sharpness & is pretty fast at F1.8 so good for lowlight. Also being a native lens, the AF is gonna be bit more responsive. Give it a try sometime. Again its super popular with C70 users for a reason.. oh and best part is its like under $500. ..that said it is not a mojo lens.. great for run & gun but for a more high-end commercial or cine look I'd probably go anamorphic with the new sirui RF lenses if/when I get a C70. or go vintage for straight up anamorphic dream mode..