Django

Actually it really depends on your camera, log/codec & DR... if shooting RAW or S-Log2 advice is usually to expose to the right 2 stops above... but with DGO sensors you'd probably expose more to the left... and in run & gun situations you sometimes just have to make hard choices, protect highlights or blow them out to preserve some shadow info. On Komodo from what I understand there is no base or native ISO which is kinda unique. I guess you expose in the middle and push/pull in post right?

Canon are very clear about their DGO method: The key to Canon's Dual Gain Output technology is that each pixel on the sensor is read at two amplification levels, and the two readouts are then combined into a single image. The higher amplification signal captures subtle details in the shadows and reduces noise, while the lower amplification retains information in the highlights. Combining the two produces stunning, clean HDR footage. I'm not sure how Panasonic are doing it on GH6 but it does sound similar. In any case, definitely a great feature I'd like to see in more cameras!

From all the ISO tests I've watched, C70 seems really clean up to 6400. There is noise but haven't noticed vertical FPN. In any case I always try and stay close to base ISO, and expose to protect highlights so clean shadows is what I'm after and C70's DGO sensor is perfect for this type of exposing. You can see on this test how pleasing the noise is at 4 stops underexposed compared to R5C & A7S3 that have nasty digital vertical FPN:

Time will tell but this isn’t the same mirrorless market than when GH5 was released in 2017. GH5 got many budget conscious pros on board back then as it was the only mirrorless offering 10-bit at an aggressive price. Today, most S35/FF cameras offer 10-bit, some RAW and Sony & CaNikon have flawless PDAF systems. BMD does ProRes/RAW and has ND’s to boot. I don’t have numbers but I suspect many users have switched, even to Pannys own FF system and I don’t see them going back to MFT. Not at that price and with AF still lagging behind. Just seems like a tougher market for Panny to expand outside leftover GH fanatics heavily invested in M43.

Yeah we’ll like I said you can buy a GH5 new for $1400 and used for as low as $800 so no surprise you got noobs buying them daily and asking those sort of questions. But that’s irrelevant to todays market. I just don’t see GH6 making as much noise as it’s predecessors. Not at the rumoured price in the current S35/FF dominated market..

Just turn on the subs and switch to your native tongue.. My feeling is its hard to get that excited in 2022 for a MFT camera with DFD AF priced at $2500 (if that rumored price is confirmed). The GH2 was popular.. when it retailed at $900. 6K & ProRes are cool but BMPCC 6K Pro has been doing ProRes & BRAW on a S35 sensor with ND's for some time now and at the same rumored price. If this were priced at $1400 like the current GH5 price it would make a splash but at $2.5K it is DOA imo.

Congrats, let us know how that works out for you!

R6 has pretty filmic luma noise compared to other R series. C70 has been proven in underexposed tests to not only have a much lower noise floor (thanks to DGO sensor) but also a more filmic noise with no horizontal patterns and low chroma noise which immediately scream digital. Fuji XT series I also found the noise pleasing.

Oh I get it, we gave up on 360 in favor of 180 on a lot of scenes for the type of interactive narrative work we were doing. Good to hear the latest headsets improve motion sickness, but I'm sure its still a reality even in 180, depending on your own personal tolerance. I imagine resolution and frame rate might also help mitigate the issue. As for streaming 8K60p that does sound like a huge bottleneck, downloading content would probably be the way to go.

I'd think the no overheating of R5C in 8K would be the much bigger appeal over R5. Then again IBIS could also be useful.. software too.. Insta360 was horrible & buggy. Canon is usually pretty stable and they advertise a streamlined process/workflow yet with useful stuff like LUT support and a plug-in for Premiere.

The tech itself isn't really anything "new". The last VR project my production unit worked on was around 2018 and we used an Insta360Pro which was already 8K/3D capable: FWIW, we didn't actually use 8K or 3D as the project was very specific and balancing motion-sickness was already an issue as we were shooting 360. So many challenges and so little info at the time for what we were trying to accomplish (black mirrors bandersnatch type interactive survival game). Anyways, that was on a 1" sensor with limited manual control. Pretty cool to have this on a FF with log/raw etc. I've also read Canon offers a practical looking VR Utility, an essential component for stitching/syncing: https://en.canon-cna.com/pro/professional-video-solutions/eos-vr-system/vr-utility-adobe-premiere-pro-plugin/

VR is actually pretty tricky to shoot (especially 360). Because of the crazy wide FoV it brings up mad challenges for any type of controlled scene. There is also an immersive goal so you really gotta carefully plan what you’re set on achieving. You can’t really cut or change lenses, it’s usually real-time segments. I see way more potential in VR for video games than actual video production but there is a real market for it I know, as content is still rather limited. i haven’t really followed latest-gen cams or headsets but overall the tech wasn’t there yet for me. Especially resolution. Not to mention it gave me horrible motion sickness after 10-15mn. Now with 8K this could be game changing, and I have no idea what 3D+VR results in (that’s the real innovation of this Canon lens I believe, the double lens stereoscopic aspect) so I am kinda curious about the tech. More so the 3D aspect than 180/360 VR. For those that have tried it, how next-gen immersive does it feel? And for the guy who bought the lens: what are you planning on shooting with it?

@herein2020 I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Even if right now Canon only has FF RF lenses, I am pretty sure they will soon develop S35 cine glass as they are phasing out EF mount in favor of RF. Besides you already have a growing list of third-party S35 cine lenses in RF mount: https://filmdaft.com/rf-mount-lenses-cinema-list/ The BIG attraction of the RF mount is also that it opens up all types of lens adaptation choices, not just EF, and with speed boosting it gives you the FF FoV option. It's best of both worlds. Especially if you compare the C70 to its biggest competitor FX6 that can only do FF 4K. Another big plus of the C70's S35 sensor is it is the DGO sensor from the $11K C300 mk2, whereas the FX6 FF sensor is the same as the $3.5K A7S3. A FF "C50" could be in the works but would probably utilize the FF sensor from R5/R6/R3. Of which you'll never get the DR benefits of the DGO sensor. And if Canon develop a FF DGO sensor, you can be certain that will be for a flagship C500 mk3, not an entry-level C50. With Canon RAW coming to the C70 I wouldn't hesitate to upgrade to it from C200. I loved the C200 body & build-quality but the 8-bit compressed mp4 IQ was pretty awful and CRL files not compressed enough. Result was it gathered dust while I always favored FS7, BMD Raw or 10-bit mirrorless bodies. C70 just seems to me like the perfect compromise with a chunky compact DSLR form-factor but with ND's, I/Os on the body, RF mount with speed booster, CRL LT option, affordable SD media with 10-bit proxies on RAW and the mighty DGO sensor. The FX6 is also very tempting despite the $6K price tag for alpha line sensor and no 4K S35 mode.

By the way that Mandalorian article had other interesting parts pertaining to aesthetics and creation/use of custom film stock LUTs: “Our desire for cinematic imagery drove every choice,” Idoine adds. And that included the incorporation of a LUT emulating Kodak’s short-lived 500T 5230 color negative, a favorite of Fraser’s. “I used that stock on Killing Them Softly[AC Oct. ’12] and Foxcatcher [AC Dec. ’14], and I just loved its creamy shadows and the slight magenta cast in the highlights,” says Fraser. “For Rogue One, ILM was able to develop a LUT that emulated it, and I’ve been using that LUT ever since.” “Foxcatcher was the last film I shot on the stock, and then Kodak discontinued it,” continues Fraser. “At the time, we had some stock left over and I asked the production if we could donate it to an Australian film student and they said ‘yes,’ so we sent several boxes to Australia. When I was prepping Rogue One, I decided that was the look I wanted — this 5230 stock — but it was gone. On a long shot, I wrote an email to the film student to see if he had any stock left and, unbelievably, he had 50 feet in the bottom of his fridge. I had him send that directly to ILM and they created a LUT from it that I used on Rogue and now Mandalorian.” And on a side note while the show is shot on AlexaLF, all the backdrops used in the virtual production were shot on Canon 5DIV & 5DS. A 5D3 was even used in season one to do old-school first trilogy type stop motion sequences: Who would have thought Canon DSLRs would be so prevalent in such a cutting-edge high budget show?!

I feel there is still some misconceptions here that need addressing concerning high resolution. High resolution adds detail, not sharpness. Sharpness is usually due to camera image processing. Fortunately most recent cams allow you to bypass sharpening when shooting log. One of the main reasons you may think 6K/8K footage looks over sharp is when viewed windowed on a small screen. You need to view in full screen on a +4K monitor to appreciate it without it looking over sharp. That’s why in photography you don’t rush to a 50/100MP camera if you never plan on doing big prints or if you’re not a cropper. 8K today is a speciality use. Personally I wouldn’t mind having the option but it’s because I can think of specific cases/projects that could benefit from it, not to mention the stills extractions. Also nobody delivers in 8K yet. It’s a capture resolution. We’ve been through the type of tricks it can allow for a 4K or even 2K delivery. Just like when you’re shooting in 60p/120p, you’re doing that to create slow mo on a 24p/25p timeline. Nobody is complaining about high frame rate options. Well similar principle with resolution, you’re capturing with the intent to allow a certain flexibility in post. Getting back to sharpness, best way to offset it from the get go is through lenses (and filters). But there are subjects you may wanna soften and others sharpen. Greig Fraser (The Mandalorian) explains it best here: “The Ultra Vistas were a great choice for us because they have a good amount of character and softness,” Fraser continues. “Photographing the chrome helmet on Mando is a challenge — its super-sharp edges can quickly look video-like if the lens is too sharp. Having a softer acutance in the lens, which [Panavision senior vice president of optical engineering and ASC associate] Dan Sasaki [modified] for us, really helped. The lens we used for Mando tended to be a little too soft for human faces, so we usually shot Mando wide open, compensating for that with ND filters, and shot people 2⁄3 stop or 1 stop closed.” The thing is most people use modern mirrorless photo lenses that are optimised for high resolving power and minimal aberrations. The stuff the modern photographer wants to avoid but that the videographer/filmmaker may seek. And that’s were I think there is a bit of a missed opportunity from makers like Canon who release these bodies with amazing video specs but still not a single RF cine lens.

Been playing around with some FX6 footage, gotta say wow I'm very impressed. Maybe not as clean shadows or as organic looking as C70's DGO sensor but overall just excellent detailed IQ with a modern look that can be "mojo'd up" when pairing with vintage lens & grade: Getting Venice vibes from this cam's IQ. Biggest/Only con for me is no 4K S35 mode.

Well yeah like I said ProRes ensures minimum "pro" requirements, that's what makes it a popular pro standard VS h26x which has no rules. Editors/VFX don't like common h26x files because its hard to know/guarantee the encoding/bitrate settings. That is why Canon developed XF-AVC format ensuring high bitrate 10-bit 4:2:2 or Sony XAVC-I ensuring Intra 10-bit 4:2:2. ProRes 444 also goes beyond h26x max settings with 12-bit 4:4:4 making it the highest quality lossy file after RAW/ProRes RAW.

Just because h26x was designed for lower bitrates doesn't mean it has to be (just like other lossy formats like mp3). Today most cameras offer 10-bit 4:2:2 high bitrate ALL-I h26x recording options. ProRes is also a lossy codec. It just ensures minimum quality requirements like 10-bit 4:2:2 ALL-I at various set bitrates. Its mostly appreciated by editors as the low compression ALL-I decodes and cuts nicely on most systems. I guess what I'm trying to say is there is a wide range of h26x compression settings so saying the codec looks "harsh & digital" is a bit of a blanket statement. That said ProRes is an excellent pro standard capture codec and I do think it's great it's making its way in consumer/prosumer cameras.

So I guess every time you go to the cinema or watch a show on Netflix you find the viewing experience "agressive & digital looking"? I'm saying so cuz you do realise that all your favorite shows/movies on Netflix or on BluRay are all encoded in h264/h265 ? And that your 2K/4K movie theatre uses DCP projection using JPG2000 compression with a maximum bitrate of 250Mbps regardless of capture resolution. Truth is: you will never access and view any Hollywood film/show material in ProRes or RAW. Those are acquisition formats that capture the most info to transfer to post and for mastering. As for still capture/extraction, choosing between RAW & h264/h265 is the same dilemma as choosing between RAW & Jpg.

Well Z9 does 8K RAW & ProRes.. R5C 8K RAW (up to 2140Mbps) or high bitrate 10-bit compressed 8K (540Mbps).

That much is obvious considering 4K = 8.8MP and 8K = 33.2MP

In the overexposure test C70 & R5C seem to both clip around +4 stops. Seems like the highlight DR is about the same. It's in the underexposure test that we clearly see the DGO sensor doing its magic: at -4 stops both the R5C/FX3 are unusable with horizontal noise and color shifting whereas the C70 maintains a much more usable IQ with a more filmic noise, much less colorshift and no horizontal patterns that give that nasty digital video look. Furthermore having now played with R5C (RAW & compressed) & C70 footage, I can only attest the incredible amount of shadow information that you can pull on the C70. On the R5C it gets noisy and ugly really quick. This really limits the R5C to a crushed black, contrasty look when pushing in post, whereas the C70 has so much more latitude thanks to all that precious clean shadow information. (by the way on a side-note the R6 stands somewhere in between, with much more pleasant shadow noise than R5/R5C but nowhere as good as C70) Quite an eye-opener to verify this myself and I can now safely say my A cam choice would clearly lean towards C70.

We're a little off-topic but it does relate to high-resolution which is a running theme so I say we get a pass. Zero photography sounds a little extreme/unlikely no? Like you said there is motion blur but also surely you use flash/sync in low-light situations like church/mairie and during the evening? Or perhaps slow-exposure and shallow DoF which could be harder to manage in video. I don't see 4K/6K/8K as a replacement for photography but rather a supplemental source for specific extraction. Sport/Action shooters are probably the ones that benefit the most from that. Z9 even has a 120fps burst mode in photo mode that I suspect engages 4K120p and converts each frame to jpg.

Oh I agree, C70 won't be as popular in rental houses or green-screen studios etc due to lack of SDI's & mini XLR ports. But also lens system. Sony has a Pro Cine zooms and such whereas RF is basically just photo lenses as of right now. That's actually a major factor that places the FX line way ahead of C70. The Vari ND is also a killer feature. I guess thinking of it more, the FX6 is really growing on me. Maybe I should consider upgrading to it from my FS7?