Django

@gt3rs Nice summary, thanks! I would just add in R5C's favour shutter angle (a big plus), custom LUT support and Q&S. Also I think there may be more crop modes on R5C and even anamorphic modes?

Yeah RF lenses definitely feel plasticky and cheap. I think its mostly because Canon was trying to adjust the weight for small mirrorless bodies but I agree it doesn't feel like quality, especially for the expensive price you pay for L series. However optically they are far superior to EF. I've A/B'd them on shoots and its almost night & day, especially on 45MP sensors. That said, EF lenses are so widely available and affordable on the second hand market and some do have a certain mojo. Very good point about the vND adapter, I kinda forgot about that. Body wise, yeah they feel kinda cheap and plasticky as well. I shot on a 5D4 recently and was shocked how sturdy it felt (I had forgotten after so many years on mirrorless). The R3 though feels great. Z9 is still the benchmark for me. Sony is the worst, feels so consumerish.

If you're doing video only sure but most of us are hybrid shooters. FF is also important if you're using RF lenses and IBIS if you shoot handheld. The R5 series are great A/B cams to a C70 though. Its nice to have that ecosystem. Personally I'm still thinking of switching to Nikon Z9 (would have already purchased one this summer if it weren't for a major financial setback) but the Canon ecosystem still has my attention. And now with Clog2 on board the DR finally competes and IQ looks so much more natural. The compressed RAW is also interesting. WFM is maybe the biggest win, always hated the histogram that disappeared when you hit record.

@herein2020 Thanks for the detailed feedback, always appreciated! Yeah I dunno why 4K60p is line skipped when the R5C and Z8/Z9 can do it downsampled with the same MP count. As for the DR tests have shown that it’s actually slightly lower than R5. That is of course expected from a stacked sensor. But the upside is CLOG2 is now available so you win in DR vs CLOg3. And of course the faster readout means less RS. There is definitely some great improvements (full HDMi finally!) but it somehow still feels incremental and catching up to Nikon Z8, which actually still has the edge in a few areas. I guess what I’d really like is an R5C mk2. Give it the sensor and speed of R5II but put it in an R3 body with the big battery and lockable IBIS. Actually that might be an R3C. I really like the dual OS of R5C. Having all the cine options like shutter angle, LUT support, Q&S etc. Sorry I’m derailing this thread with wishful thinking. Back to R5 mk2. Jave you guys tried the eye control AF? Some say it’s a total game changer others can’t get it to work correctly. Stills only I think but that’s definitely something unique to Canon.

@gt3rs Thanks for the info, so wait you need the new batteries for 4K fine and such? I thought it was mainly for 8K60p. I'm kinda bummed out about the line-skipped 4K60p. I use that a lot. Do the new batteries give you much more run time than R5C in 4Kfine/8k modes?

Hey folks, bugs aside how are you finding the camera improvements over R5/R5C? How is the overheat? Are you using the cooling grip? Really good deals on R5C at the moment so I'm curious about your feedback, thanks!

I was waiting on this release to see if I'd go for it over the Z8/Z9. At the euro price its just not worth it to me. Very solid release nonetheless. ProRes HQ really seals the deal for me on the Nikon platform. My iMac Pro just can't deal with h265 in +4K resolution. That and the fact that I can smart adapt all my EF, E-mount, Nikon F/AIS & Leica lenses. Probably going to pull the trigger on a used Z8/Z9. Z6iii would be a dope B-cam body down the line when price comes down a bit.

Tamron is also putting out an RF-S (APS-C) zoom lens (11-20mm F2.8). Makes sense as Canon have barely developed any RF-S lenses (not a single prime or fixed aperture lens). So this will surely help sell crop bodies. So yeah while this is great news for APS-C Canon owners, I really don’t see this as a solid indicator Canon will open third party FF RF lenses although one can hope!

That seems most likely. Canon cine lenses have PL options and thats Nikons historical competitor..

Full Nikon/RED rumour list: Future Nikon sensors will be co-developed with RED and mass-produced for lower prices. Nikon will start making cinema lenses for Z mount with T stops – I assume the next RED camera will be with Z-mount. Nikon will slowly introduce new RED formats and video recording options to Nikon cameras. The Nikon Z6III camera announcement may have something to do with the RED acquisition. We should expect some kind of a Nikon/RED announcement at the 2024 NAB show next month (maybe the Z6III?). Nikon N-RAW will become RED RAW. Adobe just mentioned online that they will no longer make upgrades to Nikon N-RAW because it will be replaced (see the Ado\be developer’s pinned post – click for larger view) Pretty exciting stuff if above is true!

I think if we look at the Komodo which is around the price of a C70, uses RF mount and has AF, it gives us basis to speculate that future entry level RED cams with Nikon tech and Asian manufacturing could venture out of the high-end cine market and compete with Canon & Sony C/FX line. And reverse wise Nikon high-end cams will benefit from Redcode and other ciné savoir-faire like color science, anamorphic support, open gate etc.. it also finally gives Nikon users an upgrade path to a cine line and creates a more viable ecosystem. That is great news for consumers and further increases my desire to switch to Nikon.

Saw the movie on pay per view the other day, much better film than I was expecting. Think Blade Runner meets Terminator 2 meets Rogue One (also by Edwards/Fraser). Loved the visuals. Mostly filmed on location in remote parts of South Asia and it shows. Very different approach than most sci-fi blockbusters like Rebel Moon and such that make extensive use of green screen , virtual production, the volume etc. I still think shooting on the FX3 was a buzz/challenge/marketing decision but hey they pulled it off. Goes to show how mirrorless sensors are so good these days its really everything else in the pipeline (lenses, grading, post etc) that determines "cinematic" image quality.

Yeah I don't think they'll cripple much aside from sub stacked sensor performances but the prices will be higher than previous gen with the new bigger body, faster cpu, specs etc. I'd guess around $2500 for z6iii & $3500 for z7iii.

Actually his test reveals very similar DR between the two with R5C having way better highlight latitude and FX3 cleaner shadow info. But its worth noting FX3 uses high amount of internal NR whereas you can dial it down on R5C. You can also access Clog2 if you shoot in RAW. So unless you need that 12,500 ISO for like extreme low-light situations, R5C is imo way better than FX3 in almost all categories. The fact FX3 still doesn't even have shutter angle is blasphemy.

90% of my Canon glass are EF primes and none of them have lens IS. IBIS is just great for getting rid of micro jitters and what not. Its a solid feature. Digital IS not only crops but can also introduce other issues. And of course IBIS isn't immune to that either with infamous wobble issues on wide angle lenses. The beautiful thing about Z8/Z9 is that you can actually lock the IBIS. So it can be on or off depending on lens/situation. Having options is always better than not having them! That said, within Canon ecosystem, I would definitely choose the R5C over the R5 even though it doesn't have IBIS.

Right well all Canons have pretty much the same look, its really resolution, codec, log curve, rolling shutter & DR that's going to differentiate the files. And while I wouldn't really call the Canon look vanilla, I kinda see what you mean. It's a familiar look. Z8 footage I've taken really blew my socks off, it does feel next level. the colors, the detail, latitude. IQ is so rich and clean. Its not really a very filmic image, but its high-end.. feels modern. On my 27" 6K monitor the 8K image just pops, its almost like a window into the real-world! I just watched a thorough review of Z8 with some real-world pro video applications, its non English so pointless to share it here but it did show some pretty big concerns on the overheating. Apparently hot card warning will start to appear within minutes if you shoot in 8K. The guy was doing an all day interview shoot with Z8 & Z9 and it sounded like Z8 simply didn't make it through while zero hiccups with Z9. So for me Z9 is really the only option in Nikon land. That's not a bad thing as the vertical grip and added battery life are essential bonuses. I really need to try one ASAP though to see how I gel with the ergos, size/weight. The more I think of it the lack of IBIS on R5C is kind of a deal breaker. I shoot a lot of handheld so going back to a non IBIS camera feels like a step back to DSLR days and I hate gimbals. I feel that at this budget there shouldn't be any big compromises like that so it looks like I'm leaning back into the Nikon camp with Z9 in sight. Sorry for all the back & forth, I know it sounds like I change my mind every day but good news is I will probably commit very soon as I plan on making the purchase on my upcoming trip to NYC. Getting pumped!

Clog2 inside R5/R5C would be awesome and I'm not sure why its not present there. There is always the RAW workaround. In any case matching Canon footage has never been too problematic I find, again R5C allows you the really dial-in the gamma and the color space for log which I find is pretty key to match footage in cam. WB & color check as Ty Harper mentions and you really shouldn't struggle much. I find it lot harder on Sony cams to be consistent since they keep changing color science every gen. Nikon doesn't even have a cine line and I've really struggled getting decent DR out of N-log. So in the end its almost reluctantly that I'm leaning towards Canon (R5C) as I do think Nikon has the better sensor, mount and specs but having that active cooling is such a relief, shooting / editing and grading is a breeze and the Canon mirrorless/cine ecosystem does allow for expansion so those are the main reasons I'm probably headed back there. In a sense it sucks because I want the latest and greatest which is Z8/Z9 but a couple things are holding me back. If that rumoured firmware with 8K120p burst and open-gate gets confirmed I think that may sway me to switch but even that's a long shot..

Despite using the same sensor Canon did a lot of tweaks on R5C resulting in much better noise performance and DR than R5. It isn't marginal, again the noise pattern is entirely different. Something a chart won't show you. R5C has dual ISO so at ISO3200 its going to be cleaner than C70. At C70's base ISO 800 it will have better DR. Different sensors (DGO vs Dual ISO) different results. There are plenty of comparison tests online, some scientific, some real world. Overall the image is pretty comparable as far as DR imo. I guess if you're pixel peeping or lifting shadows at ISO800 C70 would be better but in the end I don't think you're going the C70 route mainly for that. Battery life, XLR, built-in NDs, ergonomics is what you are paying for. YMMV.

Yeah if you're not planning on doing advanced grading or setting up CST nodes in Davinci then I'd probably avoid shooting N-log altogether. Fortunately Nikon has nice usable picture profiles like Flat & Neutral that with few manual adjustments can give you a very pleasing image. So Nikons can be practical for SOOC shooting. But I much prefer Canon especially with the Cine line options for grading log footage. YMMV.

Yes the Z8/Z9 IQ is top notch I agree. However, R5C IQ is actually improved quite a bit from R5 even though the same sensor. The image has less noise and much more pleasing noise pattern, unlike R5 that has nasty digital chroma noise. I think the active cooling helps in that regard. As for DR there have been tests that show R5C has very similar DR to C70. Shadow recovery is cleaner on C70 thanks to DGO sensor. The real shame is no Clog2 on R5C so you have to shoot RAW if you want max DR. What I do like about Clog3 on R5C is you can change color space internally. You can switch Clog3 to cine gamut, wide DR, BT2020 etc. This is superb for grading in post. Makes everything clear, flexible and easy. Nikon's N-log is still confusing and tricky to grade to me. Really tough to get great cinematic grade results. The official LUTs are even more terrible. Most of the time I end up giving up and using the flat profile. Yeah its true the f1.8 Nikon primes have more silent AF motors than the Canons equivalent, however once you put them in manual, the fly by wire system sucks with a lag and non linear throw. Nikons overall AF for video is imo sub-par compared to Canons cine AF. It jumps, it hunts, back-focuses etc. So what good are silent lenses when the AF isn't stable? I still really like the Z8/Z9, mainly the SOOC IQ but deciding between both systems isn't so clear cut and simple as it may seem on the surface or just by looking at paper specs. I've now used both extensively and start to identify pros/cons in their workflow and usability in the field that may tilt me one way or the other.

Maybe if you bought a Z9 before a Z8 you may wanna trade it for the lighter cheaper model but if you buy a Z9 today it is because the extra features and ergonomics of the Z9 appeal to you. Wether it’s for battery life, better heat management, weather sealing, the built in vertical grip, or better balance for long lenses, there are bunch of reasons why a pro would still pick a Z9 and keep it for many years to come. I know if I go Nikon I would be tempted by it over the Z8. Z8+grip I heard is a really clunky solution, the grip really sucks I guess plus it becomes bulkier and heavier than the Z9.

I love rangefinder cameras and my M9+28mm summicron still holds a special place in my photography heart. Reason being I love shooting through viewfinders and that's where the dedicated manual controls for focus, aperture, shutter speed and nowadays ISO become second nature. Its the pure essence of photography. Fuji have definitely nailed this in their X series and the XT's were imo great hybrids. I actually loved the dials for video too. Compact rangefinder style cameras are also discrete and inconspicuous which is fantastic for candid photography and places where video may not be tolerated. They're basically the absolute counterpoint to a sport DSLR, Z9, cine cam. That being said, there are many applications where this may not be ideal cameras. For fast action scenes, run & gun, hybrid video or even vertical portraits etc I'm always going to prefer a DSLR/mirrorless with snappy AF, custom buttons and settings, vertical grips, tilt screens etc. So it makes sense to me having both types of cams in your arsenal. The Zf is interesting. Spec wise it does feel much closer to a Z6 than a Z8/Z9. Video might look similar on Youtube once its all compressed but the Z8/Z9's 8K60p RAW or even FF 4K60p ProRes HQ will give you so much more headroom in post than the Zf's cropped 4K60p h26x. All that said, I also have some concerns about some Z8 shortcomings, namely overheating. I hate to spend that kind of money only to feel limited by that. Especially considering I plan on shooting 8K a lot. So that means I'd have to go with Z9.. but then I'm dealing with a brick again, a camera that's big/heavy and intimidating. Not to mention pricey. .. so I'm actually leaning towards R5C now mainly for the peace of mind of having a fan guaranteeing zero overheating. Yet in a compact mirrorless format that I can rig up or rig down. There are couple other specific features pushing me in that direction as well. I haven't yet ruled out the Z8 but for my intense 8K usage I need a reliable all day tool.

So I got a hold of some R5C XF-AVC files and was very pleasantly surprised at how well they could be handled on my Intel iMac Pro. Just as good as ProRes really so that kind of levels the codec battle in between these two platforms. Also looking closer at R5C it has some good C line features such as Cine gamut on the log side that gives a nice cinematic image and wideDR. On the HFR side you can dial-in precise fps to conform to 24p for subtle slomo (like 30fps to 24fps). AF has the very handy face only that sticks and doesn't hunt when the subject turns around or disappears from the frame. The big minus of the R5C is battery life but with a power bank is easily worked around and the big bonus of the R5C is the fan allowing non-stop recording in all modes and zero overheating. Today I'm kind of leaning towards R5C as my next cam purchase just because some of the pros really tick my boxes more even though overall Z8 probably has superior IQ, i/o and specs.

I'm already pretty much set on Z8/Z9 as my next camera purchase but if they add open gate w anamorphic support, this platform will check every spec on my ultimate hybrid camera wishlist!

- A new log curve extremely close to LogC4, was created for N-RAW to maximize encoder efficiency and record the sensor’s original color space. - 8.3K 120fps burst video mode, shooting only 2.5 seconds. It uses the same high-speed readout mode as still photos. - Anamorphic Lens Support. Provides FX-format 45Mp Open Gate 3:2 30fps RAW video recording. Supports 1.33x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.8x, 2x de-squeezed display function.