Django

Correct. EOS R is also a FF video camera, which neither M50 or C100 are. EOS R internal ALL-I codecs are also superior to both. C-Log which isn't available on M50. 10-bit 4:2:2 external, which isn't even possible on C100. 4K which isn't available on C100 (and with less crop/RS then on M50). DPAF in 4K. Etc etc.. EOS R is closer to a mini C200 / 5D4 hybrid. I'm actually considering using EOS R as the A-cam to an upcoming project after doing test shots alongside the C100.

Looks like crop mode has another advantage: Depending on the reading surface, the readout time of the rolling shutter also changes. Unfortunately, our measurement results are still not as accurate as we would like it to be, but we are getting closer and closer to our requirements: At DX readings, we estimate the readout time of the Nikon Z7 to be around 19ms, with FX readout at about 25ms. These are good values, but very good 4K cameras now create read times of 15ms or even less.

DPreview (Jordan Drake aside), Kai (without Lok), Tony & Chelsea, Fro etc.. are all general photography based channels. They don't really know/care about video stuff , beyond the basics.. The few video channels that exist are either biased to a system, or sponsored by camera stores / manufacturers (ie shills). Not many independant, cross platform reviewers out there..aside from Andrew. I thought his review of EOS R was rather balanced, was expecting him to just rip it to shreds honestly. But he gave it some credit where it was due. ..and indeed pointed out it's giant flaws for video, rightfully so. i wanna hear the good & the bad in a review. not just one side & not just the obvious stuff. RS is a serious issue. Bigger issue then the crop factor imo. I'm only using 4K on EOS R for locked tripod shots, but if it weren't the case.. it would be basically unusable. Anyways let's all take a deep breath, we're all in here with a common passion & these gear wars are getting out of hand..

only owner i know shoots raw with it all the time. it's kind of the main feature and the internal codec is meh (8 bit 4:2:0) for a camera that price range. i'd be a lot more tempted to shoot raw on a c200 than on a URSA/EVA1/FS7 that have really strong codecs.

I think sony themselves have stated A7S series has eaten into FS sales, but they don't really care, it's still money in their pocket. for every FS sale, there is probably 100 A7S/A73 sold. But C200 still has a major advantage aside from obvious ergonomics & I/Os: it shoots raw. Now if Canon were to implement Canon Raw light in lets say a video centric mirrorless model, that would bridge the gap. Pretty sure Raw (in a more friendly ProRes Raw, BM Raw, Canon Raw Light format) will be the next big thing in upcoming models.

I know a very famous art photographer that still uses the mark 1 as his main tool, and believe me he could afford anything. it fits his aesthetic. Lotta people cling on to their D700s for similar reasons. (something about those 12MP sensors). Never selling mine, especially at current market value. Then again i'm a vintage/retro afficionado (still record music to tape with pre-MIDI analog equipment).

I'm no leica specialist but i think the M8's weaker IR filter gets you closer to M9M for B&W photagraphy..at 1/8th the price. in a somewhat similar vein.. i much prefer the original 5D IQ to mark 2/3/4. the lower DR/resolution etc also masks older Canon glass flaws. also prefer C100/300 original canon color matrix over the more neutral C200/C300II (thankfully EOS R provides both options in log settings). same thing with original A7 vs A72/A73. another case of specs don't always tell the entire truth.

Funny you mention this 'personality aspect' of a camera. Like you guys I have and swap around many systems and some just kind of stick out in the fun factor department, like this EOS R (time will tell though as I'm currently in honeymoon phase). Fuji comes close, I'm very fond of the dials and whole Nikon FM2 / Leica approach. But for video, it's a little more quirky to use. EOS R definitely feels like a mini C100/200. In fact i've got mine setup like my C100 with the Ninja star placed on the flash bracket under vertical grip. probably overkill for many, but i can just swap the atomos for a speedlite to get my terry richardson hat on or remove the grip altogether for a lighter setup. love this versatility.

Depends on your country.. cable boxes usually upscale to 1080p/4K. Netflix has it's own restrictions (you won't be able to submit anything to them with your 4K DSLR/hyrbid anyhow). Casey Neistat infamously went back from shooting 4K with a GH5 to 1080p on a 6D for that FF Canon look & DPAF (i heard he's on 1DX2 now, probably EOS R soon).

Fair point.. and going further with that I've never heard a single viewer in the world complain that a movie/video scene had a poor/massive crop factor. Ignorance is bliss.. but that doesn't mean of course, we as filmmakers don't notice these limitations and have to work with/around them. Personally RS really bothers me. 4K on EOS-R will be locked tripod/slider shots only. and not aboard any trains! Getting back to the review (great as usual) there is one category of shooters andrew doesn't mention in his who this camera will appeal to, and those are 1080p shooters. Yes we are still alive in 2018! A lot of YT content is still 1080p, even from top tier accounts. TV/Cable is still 720p/1080i. Most hollywood movies/theatres are 2K. This is where RF/EF L/Cine lenses will matter, to get all the resolving power possible from Canon's soft 1080 and of course benefit from the entire FF.

True, but the fact they are dedicated video cams also means the sensor & processor are fully tuned towards video IQ. For C100 all the magic happens pre-codec: Canon Super 35mm CMOS Sensor The EOS C100 Mark II Digital HD Camera employs the same single Super 35mm Canon CMOS image sensor as the rest of the Cinema EOS camera family and includes the same innovative strategies that have established the outstanding image performance of these cameras. This 8.3 megapixel sensor maximizes the size of the individual photosites each of which deploys two photodiodes to ensure high speed removal of accumulated charge, which in turn helps elevate the effective sensor dynamic range. Allied with innovative Canon signal extraction strategies that enhance the sensor signal to noise performance allows unprecedented elevation of the ISO setting in this professional Super 35mm camera, while always protecting its dynamic range. Canon DIGIC DV 4 Image Processor The four 1920 x 1080 HD R Gr Gb B video components from the image sensor are pre-processed and then sent to the DIGIC DV 4 processor for advanced video processing. This includes separate interpolation of the sparsely sampled R and B HD components to form full frame 4K for each. The two green HD components are also interpolated to form a single full frame 4K Green component. These three 4K RGB components are then down-sampled to create a set of YCC 422 HD components that have high MTF, improved edge transitions, low false color moiré, and enhanced overall color reproduction. These components are further processed preparatory to sending them to the AVCHD and MP4 codecs. perhaps lower RS. that's the 4Ks biggest downfall imo.

yeah i suggested this too here on my first day with EOS R: EF-S crop mode in FHD appears super sampled, just like the 1080p HDMI output is in 4K mode (same as in 1DC/1DX2/5D4)

I hate the floaty gimbal look too, but IBIS is nice for eliminating micro jitters & shake. Not to mention IBIS can be crazy useful for low light stills shooting as well. Anyways I think Canon can & will implement IBIS.. FF 4K..dual card slots etc. Some of it is limited by tech but some of it is also held out as an upgrade path to upcoming models. Canon are pros at product segmentation. Let's remember Sony didn't have IBIS, 4K, dual card slots etc on their first gen A7.. and putting everything in A73 has complicated A7S3 development.

Lens IS is nice but cmon it isn't available on most lenses including the new mighty expensive RF 50mm F1.2 & 24-70 F2.. they need to implement IBIS ASAP imo.

Don't forget 1DX2 does 4K60p at APS-H format which is still larger sensor coverage than any of the competition. As well as some of the best 120fps at 1080p. So Canon aren't that far behind tech wise when they want to. In fact i believe 1DX2 was by far first to do 4K60p in a hybrid cam. It's hence quite forseeable that the higher end pro model mirrorless Canon have been hinting at will inherit 1DX2 specs and maybe even give us FF 4K. IBIS however hasn't been done in any Canon camera AFAIK and really needs to happen soon. Fuji did it, less than 2 years after claiming it was impossible so I don't see why a camera company with as much R&D as Canon couldn't solve it either.

yep as i stated after my first hands-on, the RF lenses really bring out full FHD resolve power (especially RF 50mm F1.2). I got laughed at for mentioning RF lenses brought EOS R IQ close to C100 but that sentiment stands, I even had to check if RF footage was shot in 4K or FHD it was that detailed.. which is why again i feel EOS R + RF combo is greater sum than parts.

The problem with Jon is he clearly has zero interest in EOS R (or Nikon Z, XT3, P4K etc). His only purpose in these threads is to point out the cameras limitations ad eternum & try and prove how superior his own camera is (currently A7III, formerly GH5). He isn't the only member using such tactics.. they exist on every gear forum, but often times it gets quite snarky, borderline troll.. and threads get derailed like this one right now.. again.

I think what Andrew is asking is if it's comparing EOS R DPAF vs 6D2 OVF off-sensor AF (vs 6D2 DPAF via Liveview). And the answer is yes. It's also a pretty low-stress test (daylight, isolated subjects). I started seeing even bigger miss rates in low-light / low-contrast subjects.

Similar test results just posted in the Nikon Z thread using the FTZ adapter (vs D850). So yeah not a shocker DSLR > MILC using adapted glass but still a bummer though considering how few (and expensive) native RF/S glass is at the moment. This is definitely an area where Fuji & Sony currently have a lead advantage.

FF on EOS R isn't oversampled AFAIK. When you set it to 4K and record 1080p externally though, I'm pretty sure you get a 4K downsampled feed (as on 1DC/1DX2/5D4). The Mfn-Bar doesn't replace the joystick. AF point selection is made by either the D-pad or the excellent Touch & Drag feature on the display. I find it actually better then the joystick, its faster and by using my left thumb to set AF points, my right thumb can stay on AF-ON. The touch display settings & overall behavior eclipses by far the severely limited one on the A73. The polarizing Mfn-Bar itself I am finding very useful, best setup for me is Kelvin. Being able to change temperature on the fly with a tap or swipe has never been so effective. Lens control ring is fantastic idea, you can even get it declicked for smooth aperture control. If innovation makes competition 'less desirable' so be it. Warming up to the flip screen too. Overall ergonomics & deep level of customization are really strong points of this camera imo. YMMV.

No debate, just trolling by the usual suspects.. if you look back my comment that started the flame i specified: Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach. i.e i'd like to see some none high contrast nikon profile footage to better judge this cam. That said Nikon Flat & Fuji's Eterna are about the only baked video "profiles" i can tolerate.

1DX2 does APS-H 4K60p. Nikon Z is 10-bit external as per Canon R.. nice but not 99% nice. if APS-C is enough then look no further then Fuji XT3.. 10-bit internal, 4K60p..FLOG / Eterna etc.. for $1500. or wait for XH2 with IBIS. or Pana S1 with FF RAW video.. always something better around the corner.. heh #neverendingstory

@wolf33d Just about every sports/news/event shooter. they don't have time/space to Raw edit 4000 shots a day. A lot of TV and even film also prefer ProRes to Raw for similar reasons.

@wolf33d I 'm talking SOOC.. not RAW where you can push DR etc around as you seem fit. @Nikkor I don't agree about Canon lenses being high contrast, I do think Zeiss/Leica lenses are notoriously so (infamous German look)

Ain't that the truth.. tired of hearing how "soft" Canon IQ is.. I could just as easily turn it around and say GH5 is nasty over sharpened & supersampled A7X ends up looking videoish. Had a go at Z7 & XT3 the other day, all really capable cameras albeit each with their own quirks.. but really there is no excuse to hate on any of these latest-gen units. That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat..