Django

I know a very famous art photographer that still uses the mark 1 as his main tool, and believe me he could afford anything. it fits his aesthetic. Lotta people cling on to their D700s for similar reasons. (something about those 12MP sensors). Never selling mine, especially at current market value. Then again i'm a vintage/retro afficionado (still record music to tape with pre-MIDI analog equipment).

I'm no leica specialist but i think the M8's weaker IR filter gets you closer to M9M for B&W photagraphy..at 1/8th the price. in a somewhat similar vein.. i much prefer the original 5D IQ to mark 2/3/4. the lower DR/resolution etc also masks older Canon glass flaws. also prefer C100/300 original canon color matrix over the more neutral C200/C300II (thankfully EOS R provides both options in log settings). same thing with original A7 vs A72/A73. another case of specs don't always tell the entire truth.

Funny you mention this 'personality aspect' of a camera. Like you guys I have and swap around many systems and some just kind of stick out in the fun factor department, like this EOS R (time will tell though as I'm currently in honeymoon phase). Fuji comes close, I'm very fond of the dials and whole Nikon FM2 / Leica approach. But for video, it's a little more quirky to use. EOS R definitely feels like a mini C100/200. In fact i've got mine setup like my C100 with the Ninja star placed on the flash bracket under vertical grip. probably overkill for many, but i can just swap the atomos for a speedlite to get my terry richardson hat on or remove the grip altogether for a lighter setup. love this versatility.

Depends on your country.. cable boxes usually upscale to 1080p/4K. Netflix has it's own restrictions (you won't be able to submit anything to them with your 4K DSLR/hyrbid anyhow). Casey Neistat infamously went back from shooting 4K with a GH5 to 1080p on a 6D for that FF Canon look & DPAF (i heard he's on 1DX2 now, probably EOS R soon).

Fair point.. and going further with that I've never heard a single viewer in the world complain that a movie/video scene had a poor/massive crop factor. Ignorance is bliss.. but that doesn't mean of course, we as filmmakers don't notice these limitations and have to work with/around them. Personally RS really bothers me. 4K on EOS-R will be locked tripod/slider shots only. and not aboard any trains! Getting back to the review (great as usual) there is one category of shooters andrew doesn't mention in his who this camera will appeal to, and those are 1080p shooters. Yes we are still alive in 2018! A lot of YT content is still 1080p, even from top tier accounts. TV/Cable is still 720p/1080i. Most hollywood movies/theatres are 2K. This is where RF/EF L/Cine lenses will matter, to get all the resolving power possible from Canon's soft 1080 and of course benefit from the entire FF.

True, but the fact they are dedicated video cams also means the sensor & processor are fully tuned towards video IQ. For C100 all the magic happens pre-codec: Canon Super 35mm CMOS Sensor The EOS C100 Mark II Digital HD Camera employs the same single Super 35mm Canon CMOS image sensor as the rest of the Cinema EOS camera family and includes the same innovative strategies that have established the outstanding image performance of these cameras. This 8.3 megapixel sensor maximizes the size of the individual photosites each of which deploys two photodiodes to ensure high speed removal of accumulated charge, which in turn helps elevate the effective sensor dynamic range. Allied with innovative Canon signal extraction strategies that enhance the sensor signal to noise performance allows unprecedented elevation of the ISO setting in this professional Super 35mm camera, while always protecting its dynamic range. Canon DIGIC DV 4 Image Processor The four 1920 x 1080 HD R Gr Gb B video components from the image sensor are pre-processed and then sent to the DIGIC DV 4 processor for advanced video processing. This includes separate interpolation of the sparsely sampled R and B HD components to form full frame 4K for each. The two green HD components are also interpolated to form a single full frame 4K Green component. These three 4K RGB components are then down-sampled to create a set of YCC 422 HD components that have high MTF, improved edge transitions, low false color moiré, and enhanced overall color reproduction. These components are further processed preparatory to sending them to the AVCHD and MP4 codecs. perhaps lower RS. that's the 4Ks biggest downfall imo.

yeah i suggested this too here on my first day with EOS R: EF-S crop mode in FHD appears super sampled, just like the 1080p HDMI output is in 4K mode (same as in 1DC/1DX2/5D4)

I hate the floaty gimbal look too, but IBIS is nice for eliminating micro jitters & shake. Not to mention IBIS can be crazy useful for low light stills shooting as well. Anyways I think Canon can & will implement IBIS.. FF 4K..dual card slots etc. Some of it is limited by tech but some of it is also held out as an upgrade path to upcoming models. Canon are pros at product segmentation. Let's remember Sony didn't have IBIS, 4K, dual card slots etc on their first gen A7.. and putting everything in A73 has complicated A7S3 development.

Lens IS is nice but cmon it isn't available on most lenses including the new mighty expensive RF 50mm F1.2 & 24-70 F2.. they need to implement IBIS ASAP imo.

Don't forget 1DX2 does 4K60p at APS-H format which is still larger sensor coverage than any of the competition. As well as some of the best 120fps at 1080p. So Canon aren't that far behind tech wise when they want to. In fact i believe 1DX2 was by far first to do 4K60p in a hybrid cam. It's hence quite forseeable that the higher end pro model mirrorless Canon have been hinting at will inherit 1DX2 specs and maybe even give us FF 4K. IBIS however hasn't been done in any Canon camera AFAIK and really needs to happen soon. Fuji did it, less than 2 years after claiming it was impossible so I don't see why a camera company with as much R&D as Canon couldn't solve it either.

yep as i stated after my first hands-on, the RF lenses really bring out full FHD resolve power (especially RF 50mm F1.2). I got laughed at for mentioning RF lenses brought EOS R IQ close to C100 but that sentiment stands, I even had to check if RF footage was shot in 4K or FHD it was that detailed.. which is why again i feel EOS R + RF combo is greater sum than parts.

The problem with Jon is he clearly has zero interest in EOS R (or Nikon Z, XT3, P4K etc). His only purpose in these threads is to point out the cameras limitations ad eternum & try and prove how superior his own camera is (currently A7III, formerly GH5). He isn't the only member using such tactics.. they exist on every gear forum, but often times it gets quite snarky, borderline troll.. and threads get derailed like this one right now.. again.

I think what Andrew is asking is if it's comparing EOS R DPAF vs 6D2 OVF off-sensor AF (vs 6D2 DPAF via Liveview). And the answer is yes. It's also a pretty low-stress test (daylight, isolated subjects). I started seeing even bigger miss rates in low-light / low-contrast subjects.

Similar test results just posted in the Nikon Z thread using the FTZ adapter (vs D850). So yeah not a shocker DSLR > MILC using adapted glass but still a bummer though considering how few (and expensive) native RF/S glass is at the moment. This is definitely an area where Fuji & Sony currently have a lead advantage.

FF on EOS R isn't oversampled AFAIK. When you set it to 4K and record 1080p externally though, I'm pretty sure you get a 4K downsampled feed (as on 1DC/1DX2/5D4). The Mfn-Bar doesn't replace the joystick. AF point selection is made by either the D-pad or the excellent Touch & Drag feature on the display. I find it actually better then the joystick, its faster and by using my left thumb to set AF points, my right thumb can stay on AF-ON. The touch display settings & overall behavior eclipses by far the severely limited one on the A73. The polarizing Mfn-Bar itself I am finding very useful, best setup for me is Kelvin. Being able to change temperature on the fly with a tap or swipe has never been so effective. Lens control ring is fantastic idea, you can even get it declicked for smooth aperture control. If innovation makes competition 'less desirable' so be it. Warming up to the flip screen too. Overall ergonomics & deep level of customization are really strong points of this camera imo. YMMV.

No debate, just trolling by the usual suspects.. if you look back my comment that started the flame i specified: Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach. i.e i'd like to see some none high contrast nikon profile footage to better judge this cam. That said Nikon Flat & Fuji's Eterna are about the only baked video "profiles" i can tolerate.

1DX2 does APS-H 4K60p. Nikon Z is 10-bit external as per Canon R.. nice but not 99% nice. if APS-C is enough then look no further then Fuji XT3.. 10-bit internal, 4K60p..FLOG / Eterna etc.. for $1500. or wait for XH2 with IBIS. or Pana S1 with FF RAW video.. always something better around the corner.. heh #neverendingstory

@wolf33d Just about every sports/news/event shooter. they don't have time/space to Raw edit 4000 shots a day. A lot of TV and even film also prefer ProRes to Raw for similar reasons.

@wolf33d I 'm talking SOOC.. not RAW where you can push DR etc around as you seem fit. @Nikkor I don't agree about Canon lenses being high contrast, I do think Zeiss/Leica lenses are notoriously so (infamous German look)

Ain't that the truth.. tired of hearing how "soft" Canon IQ is.. I could just as easily turn it around and say GH5 is nasty over sharpened & supersampled A7X ends up looking videoish. Had a go at Z7 & XT3 the other day, all really capable cameras albeit each with their own quirks.. but really there is no excuse to hate on any of these latest-gen units. That being said I'm still having issues with EOS Rs autofocus using adapted EF glass, even with the 50mm 1.8 STM i just bought. It's inconsistent, sometimes laggy or plain confused. Kinda driving me nuts, when my 2012 first gen C100 DPAF never skips a beat..

Well you know what they say one mans junk.. another mans treasure.. In the EOS R thread, everybody is complaining about footage looking too soft, and in here & other places ( *cough GH5 *) about it looking oversharpened etc lol Shooting/Grading & profile is probably at fault but Nikon definitely has a hard contrasty look to it, even in photography.. always has always will. Some love it, some hate it. Would be nice to see some more 10-bit Nlog stuff (pre & post grade) for a more neutral approach. Btw I had a quick go at the Z7 w/ kit lens the other day.. and found the combo rather dull & uninspiring from an ergonomical/shooting/lens mojo point of view. Love the Nikon color science though, and I did find the video AF transitions to be silky smooth when they didn't miss (which fortunately was not often, unlike broken DPAF on EOSR) .

yeah i should probably pick up that nifty fifty.. only hundred bucks.. or maybe even the 40mm f2.8 STM pancake for a little extra reach! the sluggish USM performance is killing it for me

Day & night DPAF performance using RF/STM lenses (vs USM).. of which i currently own none atm unfortunately.. So guess that leaves RF/EF-S/Sigma lens choice for smooth DPAF... ?

Yeah I also traded in gear and even got a discount so hardly put up anything for the camera. Of course that doesn't mean I won't dump it if it severely underperforms. I don't wanna sound too harsh though as I've really not spent much time with the camera yet and big heavy adapted USM glass is probably far from optimal usage. I can't wait to try out the RF 35mm 1.8 IS lens, really sucks it isn't available on launch, hardly any test pics or footage from it either..

For stills the AF is 100 times snappier than video AF, and in single point it does fine. Except in low contrast situations and this is where i fear that EOS-R's phase only AF may be at fault. There are some advantages over DSLR's such as full coverage and the touch&drag feature is pretty neat, perhaps even faster then joystick control, especially for a lefty like me since i can set AF point control to left side and keep my right thumb on AF-ON (i'm a back button focus shooter). As of right now, I can't really say I'd recommend EOS-R unless you are a hardcore Canon shooter and even then, this would be a B-cam to your 5D/1DX/Cxxx. Z6 is looking like the most promissing new MILC to me with it's hybrid AF system, IBIS etc..