martinmcgreal

If I'm willing to drop my resolution requirements to 2K, which I'm sensing I may indeed have to, then the F3 is the best bang for buck, no question. But I want to exhaust the 4K market first .. Whilst the motion cadence on the Bolex is incredibly cinematic, the cameras image isn't that dissimilar to the pocket's, with that 35mm film look; the exact look I'm hoping to move away from with this upgrade. As previously stated, I'm looking for a more softer, cleaner, and smoother looking image, more digital/alike to the Alexa/RED's, than 35mm film .. Ha! Yes, essentially .. Something which can challenge the MX's cinematic qualities, but that's far more user friendly. I'll probably opt with an MX if I can find one with low hours on the clock, and then to avoid additional weight, just keep it as stripped down as possible. The KineMini 4K is an interesting one .. Ticks every single box as stated, but its difficult finding decently graded footage of this thing online - making you question whether that's a user error or the cameras colour science. I assume the former, but I'd like to see the some solid cinematic evidence that thing system is as good as it looks on paper .. Still pee'd off about forgetting the C100ii/300 can only output 8-bit. With the F3, it's probably the closest system on the market to delivering the 'image' I'm looking for .. If I hold out until NAB, I can probably look closer to the £6K market, but worth noting I also want to invest up to £2,000 in some new glass, so probably wise I keep looking in the current price-range for a system .. So, as of now, it's either the MX or F3, or the GH5, granted it's vastly better in low-light than the GH4, which I sense it may not be. Is there anything else I've missed? Like I say, willing to drop my demands for 4K if needs be, which should open up a few other options?

Forget that .. 8bit output only right? Such a deal breaker ..

If I drop my demand for 4K, then the C100ii/300 models fit my needs perfectly .. They produce that soft, clean, smooth image straight out of the sensor, great colour (always loved canon's colour), the dynamic range I want, terrific low-light, and 10 bit 4:2:2 when recording to the Ninja .. Add a 1.5x Anamorphic and I'm good to go! I can afford the C100 MKii, and probably the C300 at a push .. If I opt with the former however, I can invest more towards glass .. What do you guys reckon? Nb. Could I run a dual HDMI out of the C100 1 x HDMI out? One running the Ninja, one the SmallHD 501? Alternatively, could I run the SmallHD 501 from the Ninja's ports?

Thanks guys. If anybody could provide some solid examples of the FS700 best in action, cinematically, that would be fantastic. Little underwhelmed from the footage I've seen thus far. Take the following example - the creator is purposely trying to disprove that the 700 looks 'video-ish' with this piece, yet ironically only further strengthens the argument, in my opinion. All be it, the piece is firstly, poorly lit, and secondly, completely ungraded, but it still has that 'Sony' look to the image, and lacks that organic cinematic softness the MX so effortlessly delivers for case in point. https://vimeo.com/45847664 (Not hasty enough to judge a camera solely on half an hours worth of viewing footage, of course, but I'm unconvinced as of now) An important spec so often overlooked is motion cadence too - a camera can have all the specs listed in my original post, and be in the hands of a talented dp, but if the motion feels video-ish, then your forever fighting a losing battle attempting to delivery truly cinematic feeling images, in my opinion. This is where the MX delivers, perhaps more strongly than anything else in its price-range?

Cheers. The Sony F3 produces stunning results, but I'm looking to shoot 2x anamorphic w/ a 2.66 delivery, as such, need the extra resolution to compensate for cropping - and as we know, the F3 only shoots 2K.

We'll have to wait and see. I can afford a camera double the price of what the GH5 will likely retail for, so as such, can probably purchase a superior camera. So you can still record both 4K and RAW in 24, 25, 30fps etc to the Atmos? Is there any way of purchasing an external recorder that isn't a monitor, but can still record the above formats? I have a SmallHD 501, which I absolutely love, and plan to continue using, granted whatever I upgrade to has HDMI out - so running 2x monitors seems a little overkill, all be it they'd have difference uses of course, one for operating, the other for essential external recording .. The FS700 is a solid suggestion though. Would you guys say the image out of the sensor leans more towards the Alexa/RED's in terms of that soft, clean, smooth cinematic feel to the image, or more towards the blackmagics, with that tack sharp, clinical and almost thin feel to the image, with a hint of grain? I assume the former, however I've yet had the opportunity to sit through hundreds of FS700 videos - as you do - and make a decent judgement .. Cheers

So, I’m looking to make a camera purchase around Feb/March in the £3,000 to £4,000 market, new or used, as an upgrade to my current pocket camera. It will be mainly for narrative work/passion projects, so I want a ‘cinema’ camera as per say .. w/ the following specs; 13+ stops Dynamic Range 4K (2x Anamorphic Friendly) Solid Colour Science Minimum 10 bit 4:2:2 (Internal, Ideally) Good Low-Light Happy to lose a stop of dynamic range in exchange for good solid low-light. I’ve looked at the popular options, shall we say, and nothing appears to be ticking every box - except say a used MX, which is tempting, but its size, age and miles on the clock makes you think twice .. I can’t warm to Sony’s colour science, and Blackmagic’s 4K cameras, excluding the 4.6K, aren’t low-light cameras either. Sadly, the 4.6K is out of my price range too, given it's closer to £6K once fully kitted, right? My taste in Blackmagic’s image has soured somewhat too - these systems produce fantastically clinical/sharp images, however I want an image more on the softer/milkier side straight out of the sensor. I appreciate this can be influenced through choice of glass/filters, but you get my gist .. May well be worth me delaying a purchase even longer until NAB or the GH5’s release, though I can’t see the latter ticking the above boxes? Alternatively, perhaps I’m scowling the market for a camera with the above specs that just isn’t available in my price range? Cheers

Looking to upgrade from the pocket camera, for both a change in image, and 2x anamorphic shooting purposes .. I appreciate the C100 and 2.5K are completely different tools, with different uses, so I’ll narrow down my needs .. I want to start shooting 2x anamorphic w/ a 2.66 delivery, hence the 2.5K’s extra resolution will come in very handy when cropping yet still maintaining good detail .. However, on the other hand, I’ve also found myself become more and more fond of that soft, clean rich look so renowned to both Canon cameras, and more higher up the spectrum, the RED/Alexa’s too .. You know, that organically soft, smooth, full of depth, yet still clinical and detailed image .. Whereas I feel BM leans more towards an image that - when paired with decent glass - is almost too clinical, sharp and thin feeling, and as a result, no longer feels truly cinematic .. I want to shoot 2x anamorphic w/ a 2.66 delivery, which is where the 2.5K wins, however I also want that soft smooth clean digital look, which is where the C100 wins .. Of course, one could argue the 2.5K’s image would be softened up through shooting anamorphic, and that the image can be further softened through filters, glass and post work, and you’d be correct, but nothing beats producing it naturally out of the sensor like the C100 can .. So, I’m in a dilemma .. The 2.5K’s extra resolution and shooting codecs is really hard to pass by on, and I mean really, really hard, especially given the C100 isn’t even close to competing in this area .. However I really have become more and more fond of that soft clean rich look associated with Canon cameras, which is probably just a result of colouring dull, grainy images straight out of the bmpcc for over a year, an image which looks fantastic btw, but more for the 35mm lovers in my opinion, whereas I’m more a lover of the clean, silky digital look .. When I say grainy btw, I mean that subtle fine grain so renowned with the pocket - not a criticism .. Anyway, thoughts? It will be mainly for narrative work, whatever I opt with .. and I'm looking in the used market too .. I’m learning far more towards the 2.5k as of now, given the resolution, codec and the fact the image can be softened one way or another, but man, nothing beats producing it naturally out of the sensor ..

Looking like a 7D then .. As for glass, my Nikon glass is compatible with the 7D through a Nikon to Canon adaptor, no? I just worry with such an adaptor - given I want to shoot anamorphic too - that all the glass starts to become a bit too stacked, and inconvenient .. Might be wise to start from scratch and purchase some used glass compatible without adaptors .. I hear great things about the Helios 44 58mm f2.0?

Thanks for the responses guys .. The 50D and NX1 are both good suggestions, and the rich/natural colour the latter produces really is stunning .. I've never shot with either, but from what I've seen online - not always the most conclusive material I know - both still have that video-ish look to them.. Now whether thats the dynamic range, picture profiles or the users contrasty grading, I'm not entirely sure; just my impressions. The 7D seems like the solid option, but I am tempted to go that extra buck for a used Mark ii - what do you guys think? I guess this entire decision depends on lenses too .. my current glass as listed in the opening post is a no-go w/ the 5D/7D right? @Hans Punk Thanks for the info. I am leaning towards keeping the Pocket, in addition to purchasing a camera which can achieve the above look for narrative work .. Sounds a little stupid, given the Pocket is more designed for narrative work than Canon's 5D/7D line, but hey-ho, personal taste and all that ..

BUMP!

Evening guys, Black Magic Pocket Cinema Camera owner speaker here, looking to delve into the medium of anamorphic shooting, aswell as a potential switch to Canon’s 7D/5D line. Now, your probably curious as to why I’m deliberating such a switch, when some would deem it a step backwards .. I could spend three paragraphs deliberating exactly why, however I’ll keep it brief .. I’m looking for a camera that can deliver a more natural, clean soft image, deep in depth, and rich in colour, as apposed to the pocket, which - at least in my opinion - delivers an image that is more naturally sharper, clinical, flatter (in reference to depth, not colour space) and grainier (all be it this is subtle, and filmic). I appreciate such characteristics can be influenced or diluted with softer glass, filters or DI work, but I’d rather a camera that can deliver this look more naturally and effortlessly Let me be clear too .. I’m not hear to slam the Pocket .. It produces a fabulous image .. I’m just merely in search for a ‘different’ image/look. (References below - by no means breathtaking material or examples - but you get the gist .. natural, soft, clean looking images, deep in depth etc.) https://vimeo.com/71901747 https://vimeo.com/71912369 https://vimeo.com/89787652 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRIA-xlAYvk The only two line of cameras on the market - in and around the pocket’s price range - that I believe can deliver ‘this’ look, are Panasonics GH line, and Canon’s 7D/5D line w/ Magic Latern. (Not a fan of Sony’s colour science .. ) Issue with the GH line is, despite how versatile they are, that ‘video-ish’ look still creeps through too often in my opinion, either with regards to its dynamic range, or motion .. I guess this leaves just Canon’s 7D/5D line w/ Magic Lantern .. I have to confess, the Canon’s, especially when paired with decent glass/anamorphic adaptors, and in the ‘correct’ hands, deliver ‘this’ look more consistently than anything else I’ve seen within the price range. The way the camera naturally renders everything in the frame so softly and full of depth, whilst delivering natural colours so richly in the process, really does scream ‘Alexa’ or ‘RED’ on occasions. The image just feels more alive and three dimensional than the Pocket’s image too. I guess the issue w/ moving to Canon is, the con’s of the ML workflow when compared to BM’s internal workflow, and the compatibility wth my current glass (Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM Nikon, Sigma 50mm F 1.4 EX DG HSM Nikon, Metabones Speed Booster Nikon G). If needs be, of course I’m open to selling such glass, but ideally I’d rather avoid the inconvenience, especially given it’s decent glass too. So, thoughts? Worth picking up a used 7D/5D and making the switch? (I may even keep the Pocket regardless, if possible) Nb. I’ve spent a fair few weeks deliberating the switch, viewing hundreds of anamorphic material w/ either camera, and the Canons just deliver ‘that’ look far more consistently, effortlessly and accurately. Of course worth noting the fact I’m wanting to shoot anamorphic is playing a part here too, given Magic Lantern is more anamorphic friendly than the Pocket. It’s hard to discuss anamorphic adaptors etc. yet, until of course I’ve decided on a camera, since if I’m sticking with the Pocket, then I’m routing more in the 1.5x-1.8x range due to my dislike of 3:55:1 .. Whereas with the Canon and Magic Lantern, 2x adaptors suddenly become an option ..