Trek of Joy

I think one thing some ignore is the fact that most of the people writing and blogging about cameras simply aren't journalists. My degree is in journalism and I now work in marketing as well. There's a difference between a news story with both sides of the story and the five W's, and someone talking about a camera, because the camera talk is all subjective. Its not a story about using taxpayer money to fund a new school, its gear talk. But for some reason many now lump opinion pieces into journalism and then call out writers for being biased. I see the same thing with sports, people read a piece then bash the writer for shoddy journalism or bias. I'm not trying to defend them in any way for not being forthright about the shortcomings of cameras at these junkets, we've seen a number of times where its made people look real bad for glossing over or flat out lying about issues - like the "a6300 doesn't overheat" talk at its launch when it turned out that camera had rampant overheating issues. It goes with the territory and nowadays there are plenty of other sources of information after the corporate sponsored hype subsides. As Mattias said, its just part of the marketing mix in 2018, this is a proven method of bringing a lot of attention to a new release. We're going to see a lot more of these events in the future with Nikon and Canon jumping into the fray. Chris

The a74 is still likely over 1.5+ years away and I'd be surprised if they did 10-bit. But I doubt we see a new model less than 2 years apart. We'll see what the a7s3 brings, if it lacks 10-bit, the line in the sand between the Alpha's and the FS will not change anytime soon. The real shocker is Fuji bringing 10-bit 4k60p to the XT3, rumored to be recorded internally. If that shares the same sensor with the new Sony APS-c cam and Sony goes toe-to-toe with features, either could be a really great option. I'm not buying anything until all of the new models are in the wild and I have a chance to rent them. Cheers Chris

As opposed to a $500 35mm, a $1100 24-105, a $2300 50 and a $3000 zoom? You're seriously bashing Nikon's initial rollout compared to Canon's? How many are going to buy a $3000 zoom or a $2300 prime over adapting EF lenses? The whole R line is based around Canon shooters adapting their lenses, hence the THREE adapters. Right now they're both counting on existing DSLR users adapting lenses until they round things out. But what's worse is the fact that they've shown zero sensor advancement in the two years since the 5d4 was released. We already know Nikon has 2.8 zooms and a number of primes coming in the next year. All of your Zed bashing are issues Canon has as well, combined with no IBIS and a crappier sensor that's a couple generations behind current Sony offerings. Are you a paid Canon troll? SMH.

DPAF is nice, but the rest of the package is so disappointing. I guessed $2500 for the zoom and $2k for the 50, Canon blew that out of the water. And I thought the recent Fuji lens announcements were expensive. Just looking at what each camera offers, the Zed's are a few steps above the R. I don't see how the most devoted Canon apologist can call this anything other than a colossal disappointment. There's no compelling reason to add a R to an existing Canon kit beyond the novelty of going mirrorless - factoring in the EF adapter if you don't want to buy RF lenses. And it will take a couple generations just to get where the competition is right now. But given the fact this looks like the 5d4's sensor with all its shortcomings after an additional two full years of development, its clear Canon is not going to put its army of patents to work in its mirrorless line and they're still not touching the cinema line as well. Its the worst of all worlds. DPAF is enough to keep their plastic entry level cameras selling well, but its only going to take them so far at the upper end of the market when they don't offer IBIS, fewer FPS, more blackout between shots, poorer video spec with that insane crop, and their slow readout sensors are so far behind Sony/Nikon. As the DSLR market continues to contract, CaNikon had no choice to go mirrorless -- its the segment of ILC's that's actually growing. Seems like only one got the memo. Cheers Chris

DPAF and EF compatibility, that's really what the first camera is all about. Not surprising since its Canon. But really underwhelming. Still like the Nikon Zed's a lot more, they'll be better cameras for video and stills. Pass. Chris

Edit: commented on C200 footage that was posted, never mind.

I'm thinking the same thing. Obviously they would have to improve AF, but the alternative is introducing new lenses and trying to get people to buy into a new system competing against CaNikon with their native lens adapter capabilities and Sony who is far more entrenched in FF mirrorless and riding a wave of really good 3rd party AF lenses. I think that's a big ask compared to CaNikon allowing a seamless path for current users as an alternative to Sony. While more is better for us, realistically how many are going to buy into a Panasonic FF mount and a couple lenses? Few stills shooters will add a costly second system with little hope for enough lenses to build a kit around appearing in the next 2 or 3 years. That's not an issue for cinema cameras, but for a hybrid its going to be a massive hurdle. They could open source it, but as we've seen with Sigma, manufacturers don't just jump in and start making lenses for the sake of producing them. They waited for a long time for sales of E-mount bodies to reach a volume that made it viable to offer Art lenses in E-mount. Anything Panasonic isn't going to reach those kind of sales numbers, so we're not looking at great 3rd party support either. Quite frankly, Panasonic going FF is just an odd decision the more I think about it. We'll see what they bring, but right now the move to FF seems to be grasping at straws. IMO they (and m43 in general) would be in a better position if they were more of a partner with Olympus than a direct competitor. They share the same mount, but that's really all - you're choosing sides if you want the best glass due to things like internal corrections and dual IS functions. This is where m43 went wrong - it started the mirrorless movement and has become a niche market in a very short amount of time. Chris

I like the variety of lenses used in the different pieces, from macros, to adapted Sig Arts, to Rokinon cine lenses, to Olympus Pro primes and zooms. Cool beans the original files are available to download. Gonna have a go at them myself... Chris

3 vs 4 lenses really isn't a wide gap, especially when 2 are going to be incredibly expensive. The 28-70 will likely be $2500+ and the 50/1.2 will probably be close to $2k. We'll see if they announce a roadmap. Nikon has the zoom trinity coming by the end of next year. Its not about where they are now, its where they will be in 2-3 years once the system is more rounded and gen-2 bodies come out. Canon has a long way to just catch Nikon, much less Sony. The first R is incredibly underwhelming, even for Canon apologists.

IMO, there's only one way for a Panasonic FF camera to gain any traction - use the EF mount and essentially make a FF GH5. With a new mount, stills shooters aren't going to touch this camera for years (assuming they bring out a full lens lineup) and video shooters willing to buy into a new mount are a small subset of users - and Panasonic is already a smaller niche brand anyway. Panasonic going FF with a new mount is certainly going to be the odd-man out. Especially if they keep trying (and failing) to convince people that DFD is better than a hybrid AF system. A EF GH5 would be appealing to the video crowd and it would be a useful addition to a Canon shooters kit. Release it with 24 and 45 mp sensors to differentiate it from Canon offerings they'd be on to something. Without a massive lens catalog like CaNikon's combined 250 million lenses in the wild that can be adapted to their new mirrorless bodies, I really don't see how Panasonic is going to compete with anything stills oriented from Canon, Nikon and Sony - and that's still the driving force in ILC sales. Then there's Canon - given they still don't have a BSI sensor and so far haven't been able to make significant gains with readout times, I'd expect the crop and rolling shutter to be every bit as bad as current models. They're still a generation or two behind Sony. Its obvious with the RF leaks, they're focusing on their strengths - lenses. Its also an interesting conundrum with three separate mounts in a declining market - how much do they commit to EF and EOS-m lenses going forward? Plus there's no seamless move from M to RF. What happens when they bring a APS-c camera in the R line with no crop lenses? This is what you'd call some really poor product planning. The R mount makes a lot of sense, but if you want to go smaller with Canon you're using two mounts with incompatible lenses. Its only one camera, but the R is a lukewarm release at best. Canon is now protecting their cinema line AND their upper tier of DSLR's. There's no compelling reason for a Canon shooter to add a R to their kit, you would be buying a mirrorless just for the sake of buying a mirrorless, it really offers nothing over a 5d4. They've years to map out their mirrorless strategy, the RF mount makes the M mount look like a colossal misstep. And they're now the only mirrorless without a IBIS body. Many here pan the Nikon Z's, but they got a lot more right than Canon. The bodies are a compelling alternative to their DSLR's and offer features not found in any other Nikon body. At least if you're buying a Z6/7, you're bringing something new to your kit beyond a EVF. That's not the case with the R. Its going to take awhile for CaNikon to gain significant traction, but at the moment Nikon looks better positioned to make waves in mirrorless compared to Canon. Chris

Given what Fuji has cooked up for the XT3, it makes the XH1 a real head scratcher. So they have all these advancements in the pipeline and instead of putting them in the XH1, they release an underwhelming body at the end of the 24mp sensors life cycle. 4k60p 10-bit internal, and a vastly revised AF system with the IBIS body would be one of the best hybrids on the market. The XH2 with the XT3's hardware will be a beast, hopefully Fuji doesn't wait two years to make it a reality. Chris They said at the XT2's release the Xpro2 could shoot 4k, but customers didn't want 4k. It was intentionally gimped at release, it always had the capability.

I'm sure the Canon will sell well, but no IBIS makes it DOA for me. Nikon will have all the bases covered by the end of next year if the lens roadmap becomes a reality. Hopefully we see more of the Z6 soon, I find it far more interesting than the Z7. Next up is Panasonic, but the way they pretend PDAF doesn't exist leaves me a little doubtful about the AF compared to others. Chris

All I'm saying is lower expectations a bit. This is the DR chart from Photon to Photos for the d810/d850, and the a7r/a7r3. Note the differences, or lack of. The big change between the earlier/later models was BSI and new processors on each. The a7r2/3 got a smidge better at higher ISO's, and each got new processing over its predecessor which dramatically improved things like AF and shooting speed. Its logical to expect the a similar result from a new APS-c sensor. There are benefits to BSI since it moves the circuitry to the back of the sensor. A more realistic expectation is slightly better performance at higher ISO's and maybe a slight bump at base ISO since Fuji will now go down to 160, Sony is about 1/3 stop better with the same measurements. Though I'm a bit skeptical on that one, it will be interesting to see if 160 is more than Fuji playing games with ISO numbers. Once the new Sony is out it will be easy to compare. Chris

Yes, but that still doesn't change the fact that going to BSI isn't likely to increase DR by any measurable amount. It didn't with the 1" sensor and it didn't with the FF sensor. How is that going to be any different with the new APS-c sensor when it'll likely be using the same architecture as Sony's newest FF BSI sensors? There has been no increase in DR on the FF side, do you really think APS-c is suddenly going to jump a stop? Chris

New as in something different - like an organic sensor. Just going BSI with a revised architecture and a slight MP bump isn't going to yield a significant DR increase. It hasn't in any other sensor over the last few years. We seem to be near the max of the current silicon architecture in terms of DR. Chris

I didn't read the PDF, just looked at what was posted on the previous page, my mistake. Here's what the turn signal control bar to the right of the EVF does, perhaps silent controls when shooting video?

Without new tech, I don't see how they get 1+ stops of DR. Nothing in the last few years has even come close to improving DR that much. The d800 is 6.5 years old, the d850's DR is pretty much identical. I'd be impressed if they squeezed 1/3 of a stop out of a new sensor. I don't think the admin on Fuji Rumors is being realistic, especially since Fuji's have less DR than their counterparts using the same sensor like the a6500 because of their different ISO method (what many call cheating). That aside, the 4k60p and 10-bit rumors are encouraging. Though if it shares the sensor with a new Sony body, it will be interesting to see what they bring. Also, I'd bet this will be part of a Nikon Z mirrorless DX camera. FF gets all the attention, but it sounds like the new APS-c sensor will make waves. Chris

Isn't 4096 x 2160 DCI 4k? Agreed about IBIS, this camera would be a lot more appealing with it. Chris

Some mock size comparisons from Canon Rumors. Assuming this is close, the 24-105 looks to be only slightly shorter than the current DSLR version, no surprise there. The version with the cameras side-by-side isn't an accurate size representation if both lenses share the same 77mm filter size. There's also an image with the 28-70 compared to the 24-105. Chris

The GM isn't a small lens, but that's ok with me if the IQ is great. My FE 28/2 gets a lot of use. And I always have a 24-70 and 85/1.8. One lens that potentially covers most of that makes my life as a travel shooter lot easier. But a f/2 zoom with -6ev AF, that sounds like a great walk around kit. I could carry the 28-70, a UWA and the 50 for everything but wildlife, and obviously Canon has plenty of glass to cover those needs. We already know Canon's touchscreen will be better than most of the competition. Lots to like there. What a crazy few weeks this is shaping up to be, I can't remember a time where so many huge announcements were made. Chris

Based on the spec and lenses a few things stand out. -6ev AF -- this completely blows every other mirrorless out of the water in terms of lowlight AF, which is always the drawback of mirrorless vs. DSLR They're doing a 24-105 and 35/1.8 early on. Sony users spent years asking for both, and so far they've only made one. That 28-70 is going to be a big chunk of glass, but if its sharp that could be a 'bag of primes' type lens. The large grip and fully articulating screen. Lots are split on this, but I like both (though I would prefer a more Fuji-like solution for the LCD). Like Nikon they're looking to make it easy for their massive user base to add a mirrorless body to their kit. My guess is we'll see the rest of the zoom trinity (16-35, 70-200 2.8's) by the end of next year along with another body with whatever sensor the next 5dsr gets (some rumors have it at 60mp). All in all, good times. Just like with the Nikon, I'll rent as soon as its available. Until my switch to all mirrorless a few years ago I was a long time Canon shooter. This could bring me back into the fold once the trinity is out. Chris

Hey, remember when everyone said Canon was too late to the game and they couldn't bring a mirrorless that could compete? 28-70/2, 50/1.2, 35/1.8 and a EF adapter with a drop in filter slot? All that's missing for me is a UWA zoom and a 70-200. And they're even brining a 400/2.8 and 600/4 for the wildlife/sports shooters. Damn. Chris

I never get why people call someone out when they share their experiences with a camera or a lens. Its just a lens and I'm just pointing out my experiences. I want to get the shot without having to do a lot of work in post to fix it. Having ugly purple highlights around your subject - especially in someone's hair, or surrounding a tree, or filling up a backlit shot is a deal breaker for me, hence why I said "YMMV" -- because its not something that matters for everyone. I didn't find it to be particularly sharp either and the posted samples demonstrate that, or maybe that was just my copies. For me the Nikon was better, sharper, more contrast and a better overall lens. Just like lenses that need heavy in-cam corrections, some don't care, I don't like it. Its just a lens, its really not that big of a deal. I like lenses to be good throughout their range, but I'm a one-man-band and always shooting high mp stills with video when someone is paying for my services. The Tok/Ang isn't up to 42mp stills. And I prefer opening the aperture to bumping ISO for cleaner files or when faster SS's are needed, so performance wide open is something I want. So my needs are obviously different for yours, no big deal. As always YMMV. Sorry to take the P4k thread OT with a silly lens debate. Back to more Pocket talk. Cheers Chris

Probably not much, they're in the $7-800 range used - which is pretty cheap for any recent FF body.

Can you post a sample video? Is the camera properly balanced? Have you tuned it through the app after the camera is balanced? Just asking some questions. I bought a used Air, followed Brandon Li's setup on youtube, and so far its been great. Moza has a FB page too, perhaps you just got a dud. Chris