BTM_Pix

Found a similar set to in Berlin today so currently having a game. The poor Leica R9 was absolutely rinsed by the Nikon D850 in the first round.

I thought it was a few weeks out yet. I'm going to wait on it and get in Japan next month. The SA version is apparently going to be very cheap there and I've got a couple of SA mount lenses that would make it worthwhile. My CL breaking point is £1200 as I missed one at that price a few weeks ago. I'm in Berlin at the moment and have the T with me so I'm going to have a sniff around Fotomax etc tomorrow and see if they have the Panasonic in stock as I am interested in what's going on in the app when you connect it....

Could be that Sigma are being conservative as Leica didn't do the firmware updates until after their announcement and the TL2 is still TBA so they would still have to do a "selected cameras only" caveat on it til that is released. I'll be dissapointed if they leave the T out as there is no technical reason why it and the TL shouldn't be involved but I'll probably channel that indignation into picking up a used CL. That'll show 'em

They seem to be making a presumption with the MC21 as it doesn't appear in the Leica notes or the compatibility list. I don't necessarily think its the wrong presumption but I think Sigma still haven't u turned on Friday's u turn yet?

And why have they still not? The SL and the CL firmware updates came out after Sigma's announcement and the TL2 one is announced but not ready so maybe they're still waiting for that to do a U turn on their original U turn ! A lot of the noise is about how much this adpater will benefit the SL users but people forget that if you want an APS-C L mount camera then the T/TL/CL ones are currently the only game in town and lenses like the 18-35 and 50-100 ART will go down a storm for thos cameras. I'm wondering actually whether APS-C may well become Leica's niche in the alliance as if Panasonic continue with MFT they might not be interested in an inbetween sensor size and whilst Sigma may well stick with APS-C it will be with the even more niche Foveon sensor.

Good news. Odd that they have (currently) left the T/TL/TL2 behind with the update, though the TL2 is listed on the new compatibility chart released by Leica for Panasonic lenses by an undated future firmware update. Again though I suppose it may change over time to bring the TL and T onboard. Hopefully this will prompt a news update from Sigma regarding the MC21 now being compatible as I'd like to get on and order it.

There are plenty of Leica's (mine included) that have inexpensive non-Leica lenses on them like Voigtlander and 7Artisans to be fair. I suspect there are plenty of us who won't baulk at the vulgarity of a Sigma ART lens given the opportunity.

You are right to say that this may be subject to change and I do hope it is addressed in a future update. However, the SL already uses DFD and the 24-90 has OIS so these are not new things for it. They don't have IBIS but this shouldn't preclude lens compatibility, although overall stabilisation won't be as effective as a combined OIS/IBIS combination. There may well be additional operations in the protocol but there should be a base level to this protocol that will be compatible. This is something that is illustrated by the 5 year old Leica 23mm lens being perfectly functional on @Andrew Reid 's Panasonic S1. I honestly think this whole thing has to be viewed through the prism (ho ho) of what we know about the relationship between Panasonic and Leica over the electronics in the Leica cameras. If there is an incompatibility between Panasonic and Leica cameras from a software control point of view then it is essentially an incompatibility between Panasonic and itself, which seems as unlikely as it is unfixable. After all, what do we think were the exemplar lenses used by Panasonic during development of the S1 and by Sigma during the development of the MC21? For me, I think its safe to presume that they would have been using the only available L mount lenses available, which were the Leicas. Something which, again, is shown by the Leica lens working on the Panasonic body. Would there be tweaks along the way to accomodate different lenses or future options? I don't doubt that possibility but, again, it seems clear that that has been done without destroying the backwards compatibility. The performance of Novoflex's attempt at making an EF adapter is, to me, a very different proposition to Sigma making one. Sigma not only have a far more extensive track record in the EF side of the adapter but they are official partners in the L side of the adapter whereas Novoflex would be having to reverse engineer both parts of the puzzle. If we leave aside the EF version of the adapter, then the situation with the SA version of it becomes even less understandable, when one side of the mount is their own protocol and the other one is an alliance that they are an official party to. It doesn't seem credible to me that six months after the official public announcement of this alliance, not to mention at least a similar period unofficially before this, Sigma have discovered six days before they release it that it doesn't work on Leica cameras. There was plenty of time to get in front of this before the Panasonic lenses and Sigma adapter were released to clarify just how all encompassing, or not, the L mount alliance was going to be. Is it definitely something sinister in terms of protectionism from Leica? It is not difficult to see it in that way (as I have ) but at the very least its sloppy and doesn't send out a great message about how interlocked and cohesive this alliance truly is and whether Leica are a reluctant member. The cohesion is important for all three of them when they are asking people to adopt what is to most people a brand new mount. The attitude to Leica is always going to be the attitude to Leica unfortunately. But as someone who drinks so much of their Koolaid that I've bought a Sodastream and the syrup to make my own in case they run out, I have to say its dissapointed me and will do nothing to change the attitude from everyone else. We might only be a firmware update away from all this being moot of course.

We outed them over this last year during my development of a controller for the Leica cameras. Hardware wise they are definitely produced in Wetzlar though. As an owner of multiple versions of both, I'd say a resounding 'no'.

Commlite already have the electronics aspect done so only a matter of time for the optics to go in I suspect http://m.commlite.com/product/30.html

You would hope so but that statement from Sigma had a permanence to it. The Leica lens working on the Panasonic is a red flag as well. Oh well, just have to wait and see now.

It certainly doesn't lack adapter options. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?ci=3420&fct=fct_camera-body-mount_1595|leica-l&N=4077634486 Ironically, not to mention infuriatingly, the Leica cameras that actually first featured the mount have been software locked out of the latest goodness offered by the Sigma MC21 EF and SA adapters AND the Panasonic L mount lenses.

I only really use it for work so that means it is in public places where long white lenses are so commonplace that it attracts zero attention

Only by touch. Once you've moved the box it will retain that position during subsequent presses of the physical AF button on the camera until you move it again.

I asked @Andrew Reid to check last night and unfortunately he has confirmed that the Panasonic 24-105mm L lens doesn't work on his Leica SL but his Leica 23mm L lens does work on his Panasonic S1. So, its bad news for Leica owners who wanted to use cheaper lenses but good news for Panasonic owners who want to use overpriced ones! Definitely smells like a software based lockout to me and I'm not sure where this leaves it with regard to the next generation of Leica bodies if they too lock out lenses and adapters from the other members of the alliance.

RED started a lawsuit against Atomos that was recently dropped when a licensing deal was struck. It hasn't been officially confirmed which particular RED patent lawsuit was related to but it was filed within weeks of Atomos announcing ProResRAW recording at last year's NAB so, you know.... https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01/24/atomos-and-red-announce-a-royalty-based-license-agreement/

They're having to license some aspect of it from RED so they will certainly want to maximise who gets on board with it. Yeah, RawLite might be it though. I'm thinking about that picture of the Canon 8K prototype testing from a few ago that had all of those Atomos recoders hanging off it so maybe there has been some development cooperation there between them.

This is what makes me think it has legs. Canon may appear to not seem to care too much about what other manufacturers come out with but I think they make more of a concession when its Nikon. The only thing against that though is that I would have imagined Nikon would have had a period of exclusivity with Atomos but I suppose that would have been determined by which party needed it more. It may well have been Nikon in this case.

I would imagine Panasonic refreshing the DVX200 based on the GH5 can't be far off happening.

They were always very cautious about ever suggesting non Sigma EF lenses working on the MC11 E mount adapter so it was always unofficial even though most lenses did work so its likely the same story with the MC21 from that point of view. The big difference here is the restriction they've got on the body side of the adapter so even Sigma's own EF (and SA) lenses won't work. I'm sure someone will have a go to see if it does actually work in any way with existing Leica cameras but it sounds like its software locked to me as it seems unlikely they've only just discovered it doesn't work with them

@mercer Well Sigma have well and truly put a big pin in that balloon by backtracking today on the MC21 being able to be used on existing Leica cameras. Sneaky.

Its certainly what it smells like to me. The Novoflex adapter (whilst being far from ideal to say the least) proves that any suggestion of EF adaptability to existing L mount being impossible is clearly a load of bollocks. You'd have to think that an upcoming SL2/CL2/TL3 would be able to use them as an inducement to upgrade for existing owners. There was always an element of too good to be true about Leica being involved in this (though how much real choice they had bearing in mind the origin of the technology inside the existing cameras is open to debate) but I thought they'd differentiate by having exclusives on the more exotic lenses rather than just flat out have a restriction like this. The restriction could also be coming from Sigma themselves of course who will have a vested interest in restricting access to already sold lenses to Leica owners.

As the price of existing L mount lenses for my Leica SL and T are frankly ludicrous, I've been awaiting the release of these adapters with bated breath and Sigma have now finally confirmed that they will be available next month and they will be very reasonably priced ($249 for the EF and $169 for the SA). All set to go and pre-order and then saw this ---------------------------------------- At the time of the initial announcmenet Sigma said the adapter would work with 'any L-mount camera body.' Sigma is now saying that the MC-21 won't work with existing Leica L-mount camera bodies due to 'specifications [that] have changed.' ----------------------------------------- What an absolute bummer. It throws into doubt how this alliance is going to work if they couldn't get this to work for existing L bodies, which when you add up the number of T/TL/TL2/CL and SL cameras out there, is quite a big market. I'm not quite sure how a 3rd party company like Novoflex can have a working EF to SL adapter and a member of the alliance (and not exactly a company short on resources and expertise in these adapters) can't get one to work ? It doesn't quite smell right to me. The presumption would also be that if the adapter doesn't work then the new L lenses from Panasonic and Sigma won't work with them either. Which is also an absolute bummer. Anyway, selfish moan over. Good news for S1/R buyers that these adapters should be in the shops not far after you get your camera. https://***URL removed***/news/6837838631/sigma-announces-pricing-availability-of-its-mc-21-sa-and-ef-l-mount-adapters

If you are going to use an LS300 then of course it can turn every prime lens you own into a parfocal power zoom

There are a number of them listed here on a Pentax forum. PK mount is easily adaptable to other mounts but a number of the lenses listed from 3rd parties would be available in other mounts anyway. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/201887-list-parfocal-zoom-lenses.html If you are looking for a cine lens then the RED 18-50mm PL zooms do pop up not far off that price point from time to time.